Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Rick said: I’m not crying about the situation though. I’m putting an argument against your “all big clubs are the same” rhetoric. Not a convincing one. You're all shades of the same, though obviously not identical. I'll give you credit, you're not being raided by the cops like Barca, and you don't buy players based of shirt sales like Real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: They're one point behind you and have won the league more recently than you have. I think they're pretty in the mix champ. Well yes I suppose they are if you want to look at it that way. Kind of proves the point though doesn't it, you don't need insane investment to get yourself there. I for one won't be the only person unhappy soon enough either, other clubs ownerships have expressed concerns about City & PSG. Reality is when they start getting a strangle hold Europe's premier competition the Champions league that's when it will be interesting to see the reaction of others because there will no periods where they will fall away it will be consistent success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Not a convincing one. You're all shades of the same, though obviously not identical. I'll give you credit, you're not being raided by the cops like Barca, and you don't buy players based of shirt sales like Real. Us and Utd are the two biggest clubs in England, right. Utd are probably only behind Real Madrid as the biggest in the world in terms of support. They’ve been able to branch out to four corners of the world, plant these fat reaching revenue streams off the back of sustained success. We have worked for decades to get into a position we are now globally. Whether or not the big money started coming at a certain point in time (creation of the PL) the fact is that we have had a very successful history, and that is a massive reason to why we are able to attract fans and sponsorship deals. City have a respectable history in their own right, but they were nowhere to be seen until one man pops up and buys them, injects a shot ton of money into them and makes them title contenders within 3 years of being owner. That’s not comparable at all, they were a mid table club AT BEST and all of a sudden they are the place to be. All because of one very rich man bankrolling them. Nothing to do with past successes or building the club for years and years. If they need a cash injection, they simply announce a 50m a season sponsorship deal with a stress ball manufacturer or some other made up company and get the money in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 38 minutes ago, Rick said: Us and Utd are the two biggest clubs in England, right. Utd are probably only behind Real Madrid as the biggest in the world in terms of support. They’ve been able to branch out to four corners of the world, plant these fat reaching revenue streams off the back of sustained success. We have worked for decades to get into a position we are now globally. Whether or not the big money started coming at a certain point in time (creation of the PL) the fact is that we have had a very successful history, and that is a massive reason to why we are able to attract fans and sponsorship deals. City have a respectable history in their own right, but they were nowhere to be seen until one man pops up and buys them, injects a shot ton of money into them and makes them title contenders within 3 years of being owner. That’s not comparable at all, they were a mid table club AT BEST and all of a sudden they are the place to be. All because of one very rich man bankrolling them. Nothing to do with past successes or building the club for years and years. If they need a cash injection, they simply announce a 50m a season sponsorship deal with a stress ball manufacturer or some other made up company and get the money in that way. Makes you wonder doesn't, how many of these so called partners actually approached City to sponsor them. They've been extremely clever as well by creating the City group, clubs dotted all over the globe all requiring sponsorship but ultimately going into one big pot. Do you honestly think the owners care about the team in China, Australia or the MLS! UEFA tried and failed to take them down, they went in with flaws to their case and City went in with their multi million pound legal team and wiped the floor with them. The biggest insult of the lot was the cutting down of the fine, if they were innocent of any wrong doing then why did the fine stand at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted March 3, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Devil said: Makes you wonder doesn't, how many of these so called partners actually approached City to sponsor them. They've been extremely clever as well by creating the City group, clubs dotted all over the globe all requiring sponsorship but ultimately going into one big pot. Do you honestly think the owners care about the team in China, Australia or the MLS! UEFA tried and failed to take them down, they went in with flaws to their case and City went in with their multi million pound legal team and wiped the floor with them. The biggest insult of the lot was the cutting down of the fine, if they were innocent of any wrong doing then why did the fine stand at all. As long as it makes them money then they will care. Perhaps not to the same level as Man City as that's their big massive humungous toy to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Stan said: As long as it makes them money then they will care. Perhaps not to the same level as Man City as that's their big massive humungous toy to play with. Be interesting to see how much money they'd make as clubs if they Uefa banned clubs having a group of clubs. Wonder if Mr Mega bucks would care enough to own them then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 15 hours ago, Rick said: I mean, we have all seen the clearly dodgy sponsorship deals that City have. The false claims was cleared in a court of law Rick, not once but twice, we are legit self funded now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 03/03/2021 at 12:23, Devil said: The biggest insult of the lot was the cutting down of the fine, if they were innocent of any wrong doing then why did the fine stand at all. I get the feeling UEFA just wanted money from us all a long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 To me Manchester United are kind of like an old middle class couple who bought a semi-detached in London before the housing boom and it has since became about 10 times more valuable. They've sold up, and are now minted for the rest of their days because they were at the right place at the right time. It's not that they've done anything wrong, but they've not exactly done anything particularly brilliant to merit their position, either. Apart from hiring Alex Ferguson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Inverted said: To me Manchester United are kind of like an old middle class couple who bought a semi-detached in London back in the 1970s and it has since became about 10 times more valuable. They've sold up, and are now minted for the rest of their days because they were at the right place at the right time. It's not that they've done anything wrong, but they've not exactly done anything particularly brilliant to merit their position, either. Apart from hiring Alex Ferguson. Come on mate, you can't attribute... 13 league titles, 2 Champions leagues, 1 Cup winners cup, 4 League cups, 5 Fa cups, 1 x Club world cup, 1 x Intercontinental cup, 1 x European super cup Just to Sir Alex Ferguson, he didn't run the club alone you know. The players have to take an huge amount of credit as well, as do the back room staff and directors. United may have taken advantage of a lucrative period in world football but to put it all at one mans feet is pure madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Devil said: Come on mate, you can't attribute... 13 league titles, 2 Champions leagues, 1 Cup winners cup, 4 League cups, 5 Fa cups, 1 x Club world cup, 1 x Intercontinental cup, 1 x European super cup Just to Sir Alex Ferguson, he didn't run the club alone you know. The players have to take an huge amount of credit as well, as do the back room staff and directors. United may have taken advantage of a lucrative period in world football but to put it all at one mans feet is pure madness. No, but he took United from a mid-table club with a big history back to being competitive at the highest level, just before the big Premier League boom happened. He made the club the most attractive and exciting one in the country, just at the time when the money was about to start pouring in. Obviously, a lot of work then needed to be done to maximise those gains, but Alex Ferguson was the guy with the biggest part in positioning the club to exploit the opportunities of the late-90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, Inverted said: No, but he took United from a mid-table club with a big history back to being competitive at the highest level, just before the big Premier League boom happened. He made the club the most attractive and exciting one in the country, just at the time when the money was about to start pouring in. Obviously, a lot of work then needed to be done to maximise those gains, but Alex Ferguson was the guy with the biggest part in positioning the club to exploit the opportunities of the late-90s. Yep, he was the manager so I suppose he takes the main plaudits. Let's not kid ourselves though, United were always a big deal even when we were struggling in the 70s and 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Devil said: Yep, he was the manager so I suppose he takes the main plaudits. Let's not kid ourselves though, United were always a big deal even when we were struggling in the 70s and 80s. They were always a big deal for sure ever since the 1960s, but there was nothing set in stone that said that United would become the superclub they are today - look at Villa, for example. There's a few English clubs with European pedigree, huge fan bases, and big trophy cabinets, but United made a few great decisions at a crucial point, and it has put them financially out of reach of those other clubs. Seemingly permanently, but who knows what the future holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted March 4, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted March 4, 2021 I just don't see how Man Utd and (to a lesser extent) Liverpool fans can complain about a level playing field when even at their lowest lows of horrific mismanagement of the footballing side of affairs on almost every level, it only sees them drop out of the Champions League spots for a few seasons at worst. Let's take the current iteration of Man Utd. Terrible player recruitment and choice of managers for the best part of a decade, repeated sackings and underachievement, a man with no relevant expertise employed as the Director of Football, and they're still favourites to get into the Champions League. I actually can't get over this. If you want to get on the City owners are scum whose relatives kill journalists and haven't heard of human rights and use the football club to caress their reputation on the world stage bus then I'll hop right onto it with you, but some of you have absolutely no self awareness in this thread. All of the complaints you're levelling at City right now could be levelled at Man Utd and Liverpool by literally every other club in the country bar a small handful. Your opinion is pretty much based on "we were the best and richest teams at a specific point in time and at that point the competitive order should have been locked down and remained the same forever more". The vast majority of clubs are in a position where they could get every decision on recruitment, finances, sponsors, everything perfectly correct for 10 years and they still wouldn't be able to establish themselves as an elite club. It's not just Man City at the very top who stop it from being a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 37 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: I just don't see how Man Utd and (to a lesser extent) Liverpool fans can complain about a level playing field when even at their lowest lows of horrific mismanagement of the footballing side of affairs on almost every level, it only sees them drop out of the Champions League spots for a few seasons at worst. Let's take the current iteration of Man Utd. Terrible player recruitment and choice of managers for the best part of a decade, repeated sackings and underachievement, a man with no relevant expertise employed as the Director of Football, and they're still favourites to get into the Champions League. I actually can't get over this. If you want to get on the City owners are scum whose relatives kill journalists and haven't heard of human rights and use the football club to caress their reputation on the world stage bus then I'll hop right onto it with you, but some of you have absolutely no self awareness in this thread. All of the complaints you're levelling at City right now could be levelled at Man Utd and Liverpool by literally every other club in the country bar a small handful. Your opinion is pretty much based on "we were the best and richest teams at a specific point in time and at that point the competitive order should have been locked down and remained the same forever more". The vast majority of clubs are in a position where they could get every decision on recruitment, finances, sponsors, everything perfectly correct for 10 years and they still wouldn't be able to establish themselves as an elite club. It's not just Man City at the very top who stop it from being a level playing field. I would genuinely laugh myself into an early grave if United fans thought that having grown up in the 90s and 00s when they were the biggest side, biggest spenders, etc etc. But genuinely I don't think they do, Devil has and it's his opinion but overall I've not seen a lot of United fans making those claims cos I think even they know they had a monopoly on the league under Ferguson for two decades and it was a monopoly that coincided with the boom of the Premier League, as Inverted stated. The reality of the situation us that Man Utd and Man City are just two sides of the same coin, the profile of this league and the riches in it means that you will have teams that do the marketing in house and make their riches off of millions of people in Asia, or you have teams who are owned by billionaires from around the globe looking to run a business that makes the same money as United do through the Premier League and Champions League. But neither the way United (and other teams of course, but United are the biggest example) or City conduct themselves financially relate back to how the game was formed and what a club was meant to be. Which underlines the hypocrisy of talking about plastic clubs vs clubs with history even more, you can't talk about a club like United being historic and this and that and City being plastic when ever since the Premier League began the end goal for all big clubs in the division has been to win silverware, make as much money as possible and become the most valuable club in the country. United's greatest claim to fame over the last two decade's hasn't been the league titles, domestic cups or european cups. It's been that they are from a commercial point of view the biggest club in the world....commercially, that has been their greatest achievement as a club because we all know when you talk about the biggest club in the world based on football it's Real Madrid. So if your club is so hell bent on being known as this mammoth financial entity who uses success to sell merchandise all across the world...how are you better than a club who's had a rich owner come in, seen what you're doing and is doing the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.