Things Football Can Learn From Other Sports

[Eco]

16 minutes ago, nudge said:

As if matches haven't been lost due to a blatantly bad decision by VAR...   For me it's easier to accept a bad decision in matches without VAR as the referee is obviously not able to see every single thing especially given the speed of the game these days, but on the other hand it makes me furious when a bad decision is still made despite of VAR when you have multiple people and technology being able to evaluate the incident. Screams of incompetence.

The way I see it, it's great in theory ; pretty poor in its implementation so far. Human error and bias is still there despite numerous camera angles and replay options (and it will always be there); the game loses part of its flow; people (both fans and players) are even reluctant to celebrate after scoring now.

 According to the IFAB study, implementation of VAR makes about 5.9% difference in correct decision-making (i.e. without VAR, referees made 93% of correct decisions whereas with VAR it was 98.9%); not sure if that's worth it. 

But VAR decisions are usually game changing decisions, and so that 5% isn't just little fouls in 34th minute. These are goal deciding plays and red cards, which is massive. I do think it's absolutely worth it. 

And I'll how my ignornace, but I can't think of any game that was decicded by VAR and was blantantly the wrong call. 

[Guest]

Just now, Burning Gold said:

Bear in mind all of the decisions being made by VAR are big, match changing decisions, and should in theory be close ones, then yes I'd say it absolutely is worth it

What does that have to do with anything?

Most football fans? Not having that for a second. In my experience, the "kills the spectacle" criticism is mostly fans who are afraid it will kill it at some point in the future, rather than believing it does

It is important because football is a low scoring game. Where it is hard to come back if you are a goal down, and the timer doesn’t stop. As opposed to say Basketball which is constant scoring, or baseball. Even Hockey has it more than football. 

Your second point on the other hand doesn’t make any sense and is nothing more than a hunch of yours. It ruins the flow of the game and players and fans are reluctant in celebrating. I know this because I am one of those who believe it kills the sport, and I know plenty of others. I’m not sure if there is a factual percentage but from my experience it is about half and half: those for VAR and those against.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

But VAR decisions are usually game changing decisions, and so that 5% isn't just little fouls in 34th minute. These are goal deciding plays and red cards, which is massive. I do think it's absolutely worth it. 

And I'll how my ignornace, but I can't think of any game that was decicded by VAR and was blantantly the wrong call. 

I can name a few...

Zulia vs Sporting Cristal - blatantly offside second goal that killed the tie in the 85th minute where VAR was checked and counted.

Argentina vs Brazil - Argentina get 2 penalties turned down which could have put it at 1-1. Brazil go onto score the 2nd and win the game.

Atletico Nacional vs Kashima - Nacional concede an offside penalty, checked by VAR and still given.

Newcastle Jets vs Victory - I believe the goal was offside and wasn’t checked? Can’t remember off the top of my head.

And there are more but I’m on mobile so im not checking now. But that it makes big game decisions, yeah it does but not only for the better...

 

[Burning Gold]

8 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

It is important because football is a low scoring game. Where it is hard to come back if you are a goal down, and the timer doesn’t stop. As opposed to say Basketball which is constant scoring, or baseball. Even Hockey has it more than football. 

Your criticism is that they don't stop the clock? That seems like something that would be fairly easy to correct, either by stopping the clock or adding the time on

8 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Your second point on the other hand doesn’t make any sense and is nothing more than a hunch of yours. It ruins the flow of the game and players and fans are reluctant in celebrating. I know this because I am one of those who believe it kills the sport, and I know plenty of others. I’m not sure if there is a factual percentage but from my experience it is about half and half: those for VAR and those against.

Correct. That's why I said it was my experience. I understand the argument, but I haven't actually seen a lot of evidence of fans or players being reluctant to celebrate.

[Eco]

2 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

I can name a few...

Zulia vs Sporting Cristal - blatantly offside second goal that killed the tie in the 85th minute where VAR was checked and counted.

Argentina vs Brazil - Argentina get 2 penalties turned down which could have put it at 1-1. Brazil go onto score the 2nd and win the game.

 Atletico Nacional vs Kashima - Nacional concede an offside penalty, checked by VAR and still given.

Newcastle Jets vs Victory - I believe the goal was offside and wasn’t checked? Can’t remember off the top of my head.

And there are more but I’m on mobile so im not checking now. But that it makes big game decisions, yeah it does but not only for the better...

 

Didn't watch any of those matches, but the amount of matches decided on blantant missed call before VAR is a MUCH larger list. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Burning Gold said:

Your criticism is that they don't stop the clock? That seems like something that would be fairly easy to correct

I had another criticism of your comparison too, which you clearly ignored and just skipped straight to the moving clock.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Eco said:

Didn't watch any of those matches, but the amount of matches decided on blantant missed call before VAR is a MUCH larger list. 

Any facts to prove this?

[Eco]

6 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Any facts to prove this?

It's called basic knowledge. Football existed over 100 years before VAR. Argually the craziest WC moment was decided on a handball that should have never stood, Ireland didn't qualify for the Euro because of a Henry handball, all massive moments in history decided because their was no assistance. You just listed some minor matches (outside of the Brazil), and I gave you two massive matches. 

I don't need facts to prove it, just I don't need facts to prove the sky is blue. It just is. 

[Eco]

12 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Any facts to prove this?

But fuck it - here are 25 proofs, which at least 23 at the least would have been cleared by VAR. 

https://www.thesportster.com/soccer/top-25-worst-calls-in-the-history-of-world-football/

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Eco said:

It's called basic knowledge. Football existed over 100 years before VAR. Argually the craziest WC moment was decided on a handball that should have never stood, Ireland didn't qualify for the Euro because of a Henry handball, all massive moments in history decided because their was no assistance. You just listed some minor matches (outside of the Brazil), and I gave you two massive matches. 

I don't need facts to prove it, just I don't need facts to prove the sky is blue. It just is. 

Ah I misunderstood your post. Sorry.

However, all those matches are major. All these teams have big fan bases. They are just as relevant as each other.

VAR doesn’t have a long lifespan but give it 20 years and we’ll have a big list like the one you posted about that VAR has missed.

[Eco]

3 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Ah I misunderstood your post. Sorry.

However, all those matches are major. All these teams have big fan bases. They are just as relevant as each other.

VAR doesn’t have a long lifespan but give it 20 years and we’ll have a big list like the one you posted about that VAR has missed.

haha I figured as much. 

Yeah, so it's not perfect, and no one has said it is. But it's MUCH better than what we had before. At least, IMO. 

[nudge+]

15 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Bear in mind all of the decisions being made by VAR are big, match changing decisions, and should in theory be close ones, then yes I'd say it absolutely is worth it

Good point; I can honestly see both sides of the argument. Personally, I've been disappointed with its implementation (in the Bundesliga) so far - hopefully it improves in the future; maybe all it needs is just more competent people making decisions and better communication.

12 minutes ago, Eco said:

And I'll how my ignornace, but I can't think of any game that was decicded by VAR and was blantantly the wrong call. 

Plenty of where VAR failed to intervene altogether last season (especially when it comes to penalties; the biggest for me obviously our cup semifinal match against Bayern where VAR didn't intervene when Coman dived and was awarded a penalty late in the game giving Bayern a win); a few where they intervened leading to a wrong decision (penalty for Schalke against BVB; penalty for Frankfurt against Schalke in the last minute of the match comes to mind as examples here). 

My point is, VAR, while helpful in many cases, still has plenty of shortcomings and for me it's been way too chaotic so far. Fair enough if you don't think it has a negative effect on the flow of the game; personally I've been annoyed by it on way too many cases. The most hilarious one was giving a penalty for Mainz against Freiburg in half time when almost all players were back to the dressing room already  

 

[Toinho]

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[Devil-Dick Willie]

1. Stop the fucking clock when the ball is out of play. Resume when it resumes. 

2. Find fair and equitable ways to help out struggling teams and cap bigger behemoths ala the NFL and ice hockey.

[Azeem]

Two on-field refs one for each half of the pitch.

[Spike]

On 21/09/2022 at 01:21, Devil-Dick Willie said:

1. Stop the fucking clock when the ball is out of play. Resume when it resumes. 

2. Find fair and equitable ways to help out struggling teams and cap bigger behemoths ala the NFL and ice hockey.

NFL barely has a cap and the contract structures fuck a lot of players. NHL has a much stronger CBA and union. NFL contracts are so favoured towards the teams it is ridiculous, unless they are a freak star player most players are definitely not making as much as they should be.Nad it is fucked because these teams are billion dollar behemoths, every single one of them, their are no ‘underdogs’ in NFL. 

A lot of teams focus their games around the strengths of their running game, spearheaded mainly by the running backs, it is also the most brutal position to play. A running back has a career average of 2.5 seasons, a rookie contract lasts three seasons. Most teams just grind a literal superstar into dust in two seasons, bin him when his rookie contract has expired, and get another young dumb fool to play, most end their career on their rookie contracts, having barely made money equivalent to the level of fame and success. Christian McCaffrey is a record breaking running back, the best in the league on a four year $64,000,000 contract un-guaranteed, but Deshaun Watson a good quarterback but not the best by a longshot, and a rapist that hasn’t played in two years because he didn’t want to play one season, and then raped 23 women was recently given $300,000,000 guaranteed. That’s fucking ridiculous.. 

I know you were specifically talking about caps and not contract structures but I feel that a cap will affect the structure and hows, whys, and whats, of player contracts. The NFL is a very bad example of this. Shit, I’d say that AFL and NRL do a better job of salary caps than the NFL. EXCEPT THE Melbourne Storm.

[Stan]

 

[MUFC]

German ref has made some suggestions to improve the game. One suggestion is to give a free-kick near the box for tactical fouls.

https://www.sportbible.com/football/bundesliga-referee-patrick-ittrich-rules-football-419462-20230104