Things you don't like about Football

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

Kids are kids, they'll choose to support whoever even if they change their minds a few times because they're kids.

Indeed, but I know plenty of fervent older football fans that furrow their eyebrows at that because they feel an father should install local identity.

[Guest]

Just now, SirBalon said:

It's not an English thing.

It very much is so, and I am telling you how things are as somebody not from England.

I've only ever heard this argument from the English, and that's not a coincidence. 

[Stan]

5 minutes ago, Blue said:

I've changed the club I support I admit. Universitario I will always have a soft spot for being my family club. At one point, I had enough of their fanbase and didn't want to be apart of them so I opted for a small third tier Peruvian team called DIM, who play about 15 minutes from where I live.

However, I don't really care for supporting clubs too much. I'm more of a neutral. I have favoured teams like Perth Glory, Napoli but I don't admit on being megafans of those sides. The only team I proper support is the Peruvian national team.

makes sense

[SirBalon]

8 minutes ago, Blue said:

It very much is so, and I am telling you how things are as somebody not from England.

I've only ever heard this argument from the English, and that's not a coincidence. 

I'm afraid not mate!  You get the same thing in Italy and Spain and you'll get the same thing occurring in other parts I'm sure.  What I will agree with this issue on is that new generations due to the fact football is more accessible these days is that the big national clubs get a decent proportion of the support being from elsewhere in the country.

You may not like it but football in Europe is built on local identity.

[SirBalon]

Let me add that in South America too!  Someone from Rosario supports a club from the area otherwise he is shun.

[Guest]

Just now, SirBalon said:

I'm afraid not mate!  You get the same thing in Italy and Spain and you'll get the same thing occurring in other parts I'm sure.  What I will agree with this issue on is that new generations due to the fact football is more accessible these days is that the big national clubs get a decent proportion of the support being from elsewhere in the country.

You may not like it but football in Europe is built on local identity.

Maybe in Europe, but that doesn't change that people don't think like this around the world.

Here in South America (not just Peru) we think totally different, and not to even get started on North Americans and Australians.

[Guest]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Let me add that in South America too!  Someone from Rosario supports a club from the area otherwise he is shun.

This isn't true at all. Argentina might be the exception but everywhere else (even Brazil) people have a choice of who to support. Sure you'll get your fair share of people who follow their local team, and in Peru a lot of people do. But they also choose to have a European team at that and its usually between the big 2 of said country. 

[SirBalon]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

Maybe in Europe, but that doesn't change that people don't think like this around the world.

Here in South America (not just Peru) we think totally different, and not to even get started on North Americans and Australians.

Argentinians (because as I've mentioned before) are very ingrained in their local identity and I expect you to know this.  But for sure in Europe it's more natural to believe this because this is where the sport was born at the end of the day.  What I will concede is that in England it's still a lot more predominant than elsewhere in Europe which is why you get these types of debates happening.

In saying that... In London you'll have a hell of a lot more Manchester United fans than you will have Barcelona fans in Madrid.

[nudge+]

Sure you can support whom you want, but I think the main point here is that the connection that non-local fans have with a club is essentially different from the one that the locals have?.. How can anyone even argue with that? Identity is key in football. I have no doubt that non-locals can feel emotional connection to a club (I know I do haha), but there's more about it than that. A football club, at its core, represents and is a symbol of regional group identities, with its own culture, history, philosophy and social functions; thus giving it a deeper meaning than being just an economic entity for pure customer entertainment; something that will always be hard if not impossible for a non-local to grasp fully. Now one might argue that some people tend to take it all too seriously, but that's the thing about group identities - if you feel strongly about "belonging" to a certain group that has value and significance to you, you're probably going to be wary and skeptical of those whom you consider "outsiders" or those who don't take it as seriously as you do.

[Guest]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Argentinians (because as I've mentioned before) are very ingrained in their local identity and I expect you to know this.  But for sure in Europe it's more natural to believe this because this is where the sport was born at the end of the day.  What I will concede is that in England it's still a lot more predominant than elsewhere in Europe which is why you get these types of debates happening.

In saying that... In London you'll have a hell of a lot more Manchester United fans than you will have Barcelona fans in Madrid.

That's because England has a unique football culture found in very few places elsewhere. The country is small and rich enough to be able to support travelling fans, and while that does exist in other parts of the world, its a lot more frequent in England!

I have no issue with that mentality... the culture in England is to be envious, but when people start complaining that people don't support their local clubs in other countries, that's when it gets annoying.

The only reason people have that "identity culture" in Europe and South America is simply because until the 1980's, they were the only continents with any real tradition or relevance. Now more countries have tried to improve at footy, some have succeeded like Japan and Australia, where as others have failed like China. The identity and culture of the fans in those countries is to support who you want, and that doesn't take away any connection from them especially now that the internet exists.

This whole culture, only exists in Argentina. In Brazil, you're always expected to find Flamengo or Palmeiras fans, and so on with the big teams in each country. That's because in South America, people are supporters of tradition and that's the bigger factor into who you will support if you were born here. Like I said, there are a lot of local fans but they will almost always pick a European team too and that isn't the biggest common denominator. Argentina is the only country in South America which local teams dominate the fan picks.

What I am trying to say is that you can't accuse Americans or Australians for not being connected to their European teams when they can be that from elsewhere too.

[Smiley Culture]

5 hours ago, Cannabis said:

People who change who they support do not understand football. 

End of story.

Didn’t you say you supported Man United as a kid?

[Smiley Culture]

4 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

I think it's obvious that children aren't being included here, I'm talking about adults who decide that their club is going through a rough patch and jump ship.

I don’t believe it’s as black and white as you say, there’s more reasons than just the one you give above. 

[Danny]

8 hours ago, Cannabis said:

People who change who they support do not understand football. 

End of story.

Touchy 

[Guest]

I know some spurs fans who went to.the san sero twice on year. They've been to Madrid even Switzerland in the Europa league. They don't come from London but there is no way you can't say they aren't proper fans with a real connection to the club. Probably more so than a lot of local supporters 

[SirBalon]

7 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I know some spurs fans who went to.the san sero twice on year. They've been to Madrid even Switzerland in the Europa league. They don't come from London but there is no way you can't say they aren't proper fans with a real connection to the club. Probably more so than a lot of local supporters 

Yeah, that's commitment.  How many games do they attend in general a season and where are they from?

Although getting to White Hart Lane is almost the same as getting to the San Siro when we consider the infrastructure in terms of transport services available.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Yeah, that's commitment.  How many games do they attend in general a season and where are they from?

Although getting to White Hart Lane is almost the same as getting to the San Siro when we consider the infrastructure in terms of transport services available.

Not to sure. But like you said getting to London is hard and expensive. Probably cheaper to go some European away games than London.

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Not to sure. But like you said getting to London is hard and expensive. Probably cheaper to go some European away games than London.

I live in London mate, North London!  And to get to Middlesex to watch Arsenal away to Spurs was always a headache and a long walk. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

I live in London mate, North London!  And to get to Middlesex to watch Arsenal away to Spurs was always a headache and a long walk. 

How many games to you go a season mate?

[Spike]

'Local' is ambiguous. I've lived in Chicago for a year now and I can tell you that I know and care about some of the clubs here more than some people that have lived in the city since the sports were invented. Am I not a Chicago local? I watch every Blackhawks games and I guarantee you that half the stadium is only there because the Hawks were an elite dynasty in the last eight years. Fair-weather fans, the lot of them! Passion is passion no matter where someone is from. Is a first generation Indian that moved to Leeds at age three not a local? They don't have the stereotypical Yorkshire family or upbringing, is that person excluded? If you believe that someone can integrate or assimilate into a new country, or culture, than by default you have to believe that people can love a football team in that manner. Otherwise, it's hypocritical. 

The 'local' mentality is a side-effect of the people feeling as if they losing their cultural identity in a world of globalism and immigration. It's exactly the same as people that think 'Europe is for Europeans'. It's just exasperated by the Premier League's global whoring the the English stereotypes of 'home birds'. If you move away from your locality, shouldn't you assimilate into your new community?

I will never understand why people will deride other's passions. Who is anyone to judge!? I don't deride any of the people in this forum for following the A-League, in fact I'm happy that they enjoy it.

On the subject of 'changing teams'; a lot of people are fans of a particular sport and watch sports for the enjoyment of the sport, not the following of a team. And the opposite is true, many people are fans of teams, not fans of the particular sport.  My grandfather for instance, cared for no particular rugby team but instead followed teams with interesting players, or strategies, preferring to look for exciting games, than following the one team every week. But we are also from the bush so there were no local teams to be attached to.

But saying that, I do think it's important to support and follow one's local team, because it involves one in the community. However, I don't think people can appreciate not everyone has a 'local' team. I don't, in Australia. The closest team would be like someone from Glasglow driving down to London every week. Brisbane could be considered my local team, I suppose but I only lived there for about two years, and in fact have lived in Atlanta for longer, and soon Chicago longer. Just how many of you would support a team over 1000km away and say that you are 'local'?

That's just me though, I don't claim to be a 'Chelsea fan' or whatever. I do enjoy watching Chelsea, but I'm not overly attached to the club like some of you may believe but I'm not just going to sit up and say 'I prefer Tottenham now'. I think the British have a fundamental misunderstanding of foreigners, just like foreigners have a fundamental misunderstanding of the British. But hey, if I moved to London maybe I'd fall into a group of fans that I'd feel at home with can became an X Club fan, because I feel like part of that community, I think it's a sense of belonging that people search for.

And @SirBalon you've said some interesting things, but you are a North-Londoner that lived in Valencia for a decade, proud of his Galego heritage and supports Barcelona... It's more complex than just 'being' from a plot of dirt. If anything by rights, you'd think you'd feel more at home in Valencia than anywhere else in Spain, did you not feel like a local in those times?

[LFCMike]

16 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

Didn’t you say you supported Man United as a kid?

That would explain a hell of a lot

[SirBalon]

10 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

How many games to you go a season mate?

Before I went for my 10 year stint in Spain, I think I missed all of 10 home games at Arsenal since the age of 7.  After my return to the British Isles I got my season ticket back but not the one that I originally had all my life that was in the North Bank with the loud ones (loud by Arsenal standards) and although I had made a pen agreement with those at the ticketing department before I departed for my Spanish adventure where they promised I wouldn't go on a waiting list, the only one available was a Platinum Club Level season ticket which comes in at a few pounds just under £3,000.  Not too much of an id due although I'm not getting the ingredients I want in that particular part of the stadium and I get to sit amongst too many corporative attendees and football tourists... Nothing worse than sitting next to an Oriental (not because he's Oriental mind you!) that laughs throughout the whole game and is cheering on both teams.

Anyhow... My change in personal circumstances (getting married and having kids) means that my time is limited when I also shuffle other things in my life that require time and also the disillusionment with the final years of Wengerism at the club made me come to the decision to sell my season ticket to a work colleague for three years which means I go to matches when he's away which he does quite a lot in his particular department (he has the job I used to have)... Then if I'm free, I go which isn't too many times unfortunately. 

[SirBalon]

10 hours ago, Spike said:

And @SirBalon you've said some interesting things, but you are a North-Londoner that lived in Valencia for a decade, proud of his Galego heritage and supports Barcelona... It's more complex than just 'being' from a plot of dirt. If anything by rights, you'd think you'd feel more at home in Valencia than anywhere else in Spain, did you not feel like a local in those times?

I was born and bred right in the heart of Highbury by Spanish (Galician) parents, mum and dad.

I started to go to Arsenal games before I was 7 and then from 7 I got my junior season ticket and the rest is history.  Indeed I went on my adventure for 10 years to Valencia and within 4 months I had acquired my season ticket to go to Mestalla.  I did this because I was used to going to football every weekend and I needed that experience, the one where you do the whole going to football ritual... Infact those four months without having that were a very strange feeling for me indeed and you have to remember that I had no responsibilities because I wasn't married at the time or neither had children.  So I needed that and I chose Valencia because it was local (could've and probably should've chosen Levante UD) and I got to see lots of great football.

But during the just under 10 years of going most weeks to Mestalla, I didn't even at the end ever create any attachment or sentiments to Valencia CF.. It may sound strange, but it didn't happen because that's the thing mate, there has to be something in it and it's all very inexplicable.  The only thing I ascertained is that Valencia fans are a strange folk, they have a very unique way of supporting their club and have sentiments that would probably be at odds with the way most fans assimilate these things anywhere else in the world of football, but that's another story and one that I've touched on before past.

I also used to go to many Barça games as I could get any ticket I wanted due to being a FC Barcelona member from before I could even talk as an infant.  My uncle (a football fanatic) made me a Barcelona Socio at the age of 2 and I've been one ever since... Due to this I have access to tickets to go to games although I'm not a season ticket holder.  So I used to go to games at Barcelona where I do have strong sentiments which I've explained in the distant past in the other forum.  My family on my father's side are football fundamentalists, I was brought up on that especially with a couple of my uncles... It's like a religion, a religious experience growing up.

But it's hard to explain what these sentiments are and what it's all about but for me Arsenal Football Club is like the true religion for me... Arsenal are the Essenes of Qumran, my religious roots!  But FC Barcelona is the evolved belief of Catholicism with which I've been instructed on... Hmmm... I don't know how that came across but I understand it and knowing you, you probably will too. 

[Azeem]

Arsenal FC as a religion ? Where does Wenger fit in the Holy Trinity. 

[SirBalon]

8 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said:

Arsenal FC as a religion ? Where does Wenger fit in the Holy Trinity. 

It's not unusual for you not to comprehend the fundamentals of the Holy Trinity even though it seems quite simple, it obviously isn't. 

But Wenger would be Peter when he heard the Cockerel crow and David Dein will have been Pontius Pilate.

[Azeem]

The fact that we suck at it