Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said: Terrible for football this if a team can have one shot on the 70th minute and win 1-0. Why? It's hilarious. If Spurs are as good as they think they'd easily score a few against a team that lets them have the ball all game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 4, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2018 SONSATIONAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 Not quite a thunder bastard but a cracking equaliser from Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 haha what an answer... its a really boring match but both the goals have been terrific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Haha this match has been bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: Why? It's hilarious. If Spurs are as good as they think they'd easily score a few against a team that lets them have the ball all game. Because it reinforces taking the negative approach to get a result on the off chance that you might fluke a win. Percentages football is the absolute pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pep Talk Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Two cracking goals and one massive bus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said: Because it reinforces taking the negative approach to get a result on the off chance that you might fluke a win. Percentages football is the absolute pits. Some people will always play like that. One result doesn't make a difference. I think we also have to remember that you can appreciate sides for having an organised defence and putting their bodies on the line. Matches like Arsenal and Chelsea last night were obviously more entertaining for the neutral but they lose their significance if everyone plays like that all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 More dropped points for the North London sides. Might see them both in the Europa league next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, RandoEFC said: Some people will always play like that. One result doesn't make a difference. I think we also have to remember that you can appreciate sides for having an organised defence and putting their bodies on the line. Matches like Arsenal and Chelsea last night were obviously more entertaining for the neutral but they lose their significance if everyone plays like that all the time. Its not as black and white as did you park the bus or not though. First shot on the 70th minute is some of the worst football of all bus parkers. Probably in the worst 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK85 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said: Because it reinforces taking the negative approach to get a result on the off chance that you might fluke a win. Percentages football is the absolute pits. Why is it called a fluke when defensive setups manage a win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, Kitchen Sales said: Its not as black and white as did you park the bus or not though. First shot on the 70th minute is some of the worst football of all bus parkers. Probably in the worst 5%. It's not black and white but whatever they did it got them a point and they're one win off the top half. Honestly these things go in circles. Right now the gap between the top six and the rest is pretty much astronomical to the extent that anyone besides the most stubborn attack minded managers will play the same way as this against them. In a couple of years things will even out again to an extent and we will see bottom 14 sides able to have a bit of a go again. As for West Ham, I look forward to seeing Moyes stabilise them over the next two and a half years before they sack him for not playing the West Ham way and employ another "forward thinking" manager that sends them spiralling back down to the relegation zone and possibly the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 The Premier League would be a much better place without the Mourinho’s, Moyes & Allardyce’s of the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: More dropped points for the North London sides. Might see them both in the Europa league next season? Relying on a Mourinho meltdown right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, 6666 said: Relying on a Mourinho meltdown right now. I would love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, HK85 said: Why is it called a fluke when defensive setups manage a win? Because the most extreme defensive setups basically have no means of creating chances except banking for a goal-causing opposition or refereeing mistake. So if they end up scoring, there's no credit to them in it. Counter-attacking set-ups with a clear plan to spring forward and attack identified opposition weaknesses like old Mourinho teams are different, but if you have basically no plan to actually create any chances then you deserve little credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: It's not black and white but whatever they did it got them a point and they're one win off the top half. Honestly these things go in circles. Right now the gap between the top six and the rest is pretty much astronomical to the extent that anyone besides the most stubborn attack minded managers will play the same way as this against them. In a couple of years things will even out again to an extent and we will see bottom 14 sides able to have a bit of a go again. Parking the bus used to be damage limitation, this is something different. Now it is changing to don't even try to attack for 70-75 minutes, if you are only 1 down have a go at the end, if you are level hold out for a point, if not so what this game is just a "bonus" anyway. Seeing this across the league. 20 minutes ago, HK85 said: Why is it called a fluke when defensive setups manage a win? Because a fluke is something you do not plan, "score a wonder goal with your one and only shot" is not a tactic you can put on the whiteboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 4, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Inverted said: Because the most extreme defensive setups basically have no means of creating chances except banking for a goal-causing opposition or refereeing mistake. So if they end up scoring, there's no credit to them in it. Counter-attacking set-ups with a clear plan to spring forward and attack identified opposition weaknesses like old Mourinho teams are different, but if you have basically no plan to actually create any chances then you deserve little credit. you can't not give credit to West Ham and specifically Obiang today though? It's not like it was a fluke shot that got deflected off someone's arse, hit both posts then trickled over the line. It was a belter of a goal and they did what they set out to do. It was boring as fuck most of the match but he's taken a shot and been clinical with it. and there was no referee mistake to aid them. You deserve little credit if you're Spurs, have so much of the ball, create so many chances and only score one goal/not win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Inverted said: Because the most extreme defensive setups basically have no means of creating chances except banking for a goal-causing opposition or refereeing mistake. So if they end up scoring, there's no credit to them in it. Counter-attacking set-ups with a clear plan to spring forward and attack identified opposition weaknesses like old Mourinho teams are different, but if you have basically no plan to actually create any chances then you deserve little credit. So was it a poor refereeing decision or a defensive mistake that led to West Hams goal tonight? In all seriousness, people need to get over it. West Ham's defence was better than Tottenham's attack for 80 minutes so they earned the right to be leading the match from an unlikely goal which would probably have never happened again if they replayed that match 20 times. If Tottenham were more dangerous or West Ham defended less impressively then it wouldn't have worked. What you should hear after this match is 33% people praising West Ham for good defending, 33% people criticising Tottenham for not breaking them down and 33% people crying that West Ham's approach wasn't conducive to the high scoring game they want to see as a neutral but all you get at the moment is the third one because that's one of the overwhelming narratives in the footballing hive mind at the moment. It's boring watching dull matches but it's even more boring reading the same thing about negative tactics on every football forum and Twitter feed on Earth every day because people just can't accept that a team would dare to take a particular approach because they think it gives them a better chance of getting a result. If people don't like the Premier League at the moment why do they keep watching it and not stick Netflix on instead or go for a cheeky wank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: So was it a poor refereeing decision or a defensive mistake that led to West Hams goal tonight? In all seriousness, people need to get over it. West Ham's defence was better than Tottenham's attack for 80 minutes so they earned the right to be leading the match from an unlikely goal which would probably have never happened again if they replayed that match 20 times. If Tottenham were more dangerous or West Ham defended less impressively then it wouldn't have worked. What you should hear after this match is 33% people praising West Ham for good defending, 33% people criticising Tottenham for not breaking them down and 33% people crying that West Ham's approach wasn't conducive to the high scoring game they want to see as a neutral but all you get at the moment is the third one because that's one of the overwhelming narratives in the footballing hive mind at the moment. It's boring watching dull matches but it's even more boring reading the same thing about negative tactics on every football forum and Twitter feed on Earth every day because people just can't accept that a team would dare to take a particular approach because they think it gives them a better chance of getting a result. If people don't like the Premier League at the moment why do they keep watching it and not stick Netflix on instead or go for a cheeky wank? What about the last 1% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, LFCMadLad said: What about the last 1% Those are the Liverpool fans who didn't see the game because they're out getting petrol to burn their Coutinho shirts tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stan said: you can't not give credit to West Ham and specifically Obiang today though? It's not like it was a fluke shot that got deflected off someone's arse, hit both posts then trickled over the line. It was a belter of a goal and they did what they set out to do. It was boring as fuck most of the match but he's taken a shot and been clinical with it. and there was no referee mistake to aid them. You deserve little credit if you're Spurs, have so much of the ball, create so many chances and only score one goal/not win the game. Obiang deserves credit for the goal absolutely and West Ham deserve credit for defending quite well, but ultimately if Son hadn't fired in an almost equally ridiculous goal, I wouldn't be congratulating Moyes for masterminding a win here. If you're a manager and one of your players blasts in a wondergoal it's not to your credit. Likewise if your team is well organised and a defender makes an extremely rare individual mistake that changes a result, we don't suddenly say that coach is shite defensively. You can judge the overall quality of a team separately from anomalous moments, and even separately from individual results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Fan opinions help shape the game, shape reputations. If we shut up then every club would be managed by Moyes and Allardyce the untouchables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: Those are the Liverpool fans who didn't see the game because they're out getting petrol to burn their Coutinho shirts tomorrow. Okey dokey 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 4, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, Inverted said: Obiang deserves credit for the goal absolutely and West Ham deserve credit for defending quite well, but ultimately if Son hadn't fired in an almost equally ridiculous goal, I wouldn't be congratulating Moyes for masterminding a win here. If you're a manager and one of your players blasts in a wondergoal it's not to your credit. Likewise if your team is well organised and a defender makes an extremely rare individual mistake that changes a result, we don't suddenly say that coach is shite defensively. You can judge the overall quality of a team separately from anomalous moments, and even separately from individual results. the bigger picture from this though is that you've kept yourselves in the game by defending like your lives depended on it and managed to get a goal which is not a consolation. so the manager deserves some credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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