HK85 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, Inverted said: Because the most extreme defensive setups basically have no means of creating chances except banking for a goal-causing opposition or refereeing mistake. So if they end up scoring, there's no credit to them in it. Counter-attacking set-ups with a clear plan to spring forward and attack identified opposition weaknesses like old Mourinho teams are different, but if you have basically no plan to actually create any chances then you deserve little credit. So if a team execute their defensive tactical plan correctly and don't concede but their striker, who knew he would be isolated all game manages to get the beating of his man from a set piece and they win it 1-0 they don't deserve a pat on the back? Would they get more credit if it was 0-0 or does it only become a fluke when they win a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, LFCMadLad said: Okey dokey 👍 Too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, RandoEFC said: Too soon? I hope we wup your ass on Friday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Gold Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Amazing how quickly Everton fans have taken to rabidly defending shit football now they've got Allardyce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 @Inverted you are a dinosaur who still thinks that what a team deserves out of a game is based on the balance of play, get with the times, doing absolutely fuck all is the new 70s Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 the number of people who expect to see clubs go hell for leather for the benefit of the entertainment of the neutral instead of getting results for themselves. If West Ham "did nothing" yet still scored as many goals as Spurs in 90 minutes then why is nobody arsed about how toothless Spurs were? Literally not a shred of criticism aimed at Tottenham for relying on a wonder goal of their own to penetrate a bottom half defence that let them have the ball for the entire game but let's complain about West Ham executing their game plan effectively. Reminds me of the Merseyside derby where a number of people (not everyone) completely exonerated Liverpool's attack for them dropping points when they could only score one goal despite having 80% possession against "the worst Everton side that have ever visited Anfield" or whatever the rhetoric was for the following week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 31 minutes ago, HK85 said: So if a team execute their defensive tactical plan correctly and don't concede but their striker, who knew he would be isolated all game manages to get the beating of his man from a set piece and they win it 1-0 they don't deserve a pat on the back? Would they get more credit if it was 0-0 or does it only become a fluke when they win a game? They deserve a pat on the back for the clean sheet but ultimately they've got a result that's an extremely unlikely outcome. But again my point is dependent on so many things - did the opposition miss loads of chances? Did they at least get forward and win a decent number of set pieces? Did they create at least some openings? Im basically trying to say that if a game plan is massively dependent on both: 1 - things entirely out of your control (opposition missing chances, defensive mistakes, ref mistakes) 2 - your team achieving things that are extremely unlikely (scoring near-impossible goals, scoring from an extremely small number of weak chances, your goalkeeper having a season-best performance) then it's a poor gameplan. Both in a sporting sense, and also in a pragmatic sense because it's not sustainable to get results in that way. Call me a romantic but I think that teams can prepare themselves to at least have a modicum of influence on a match, rather than sitting and hoping something falls into their lap. I don't mean to get partisan here, but last season Man City were on a long winning run against a series of English teams who played the way I described, and that run was broken by a Celtic side that surprised them by actually pressing and attacking in a way no side (with comparitively massive budgets) had tried yet. Even something that is famed as a legendary bus-parking performance, the 2-1 vs Barcelona, was noticeably more proactive than what I see from most Premier League sides these days. It was very defensive, but there was a clear plan to at least get in behind Barcelona with Miku making runs off Samaras, rather than hoofing it hopelessly up to an unsupported striker. And the difference in budget from Celtic to Barca is somewhat bigger than West Ham to Spurs. Sides are scared to even leave up an attacking midfielder at the moment. Mind you, Spurs were morons to keep 3 men back contesting long balls against fucking Chicarito. Basically, there are examples of teams shithousing to results and also positive examples. I don't want to get wrapped up in this deeper than I've already went with this ramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said: @Inverted you are a dinosaur who still thinks that what a team deserves out of a game is based on the balance of play, get with the times, doing absolutely fuck all is the new 70s Brazil Can you please change the adverts on this forum please? Everytime Mrs Madlad looks over at my phone, all she see’s at the top of the page is 40+ PLENTY OF FISH and it’s doing me no favours whatsoever mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 4, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: the number of people who expect to see clubs go hell for leather for the benefit of the entertainment of the neutral instead of getting results for themselves. If West Ham "did nothing" yet still scored as many goals as Spurs in 90 minutes then why is nobody arsed about how toothless Spurs were? Literally not a shred of criticism aimed at Tottenham for relying on a wonder goal of their own to penetrate a bottom half defence that let them have the ball for the entire game but let's complain about West Ham executing their game plan effectively. Reminds me of the Merseyside derby where a number of people (not everyone) completely exonerated Liverpool's attack for them dropping points when they could only score one goal despite having 80% possession against "the worst Everton side that have ever visited Anfield" or whatever the rhetoric was for the following week. 39 minutes ago, Stan said: you can't not give credit to West Ham and specifically Obiang today though? It's not like it was a fluke shot that got deflected off someone's arse, hit both posts then trickled over the line. It was a belter of a goal and they did what they set out to do. It was boring as fuck most of the match but he's taken a shot and been clinical with it. and there was no referee mistake to aid them. You deserve little credit if you're Spurs, have so much of the ball, create so many chances and only score one goal/not win the game. Hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Stan said: Hello. This is the internet, you know? Contradicting someone's sweeping generalisations with factual evidence isn't allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: Can you please change the adverts on this forum please? Everytime Mrs Madlad looks over at my phone, all she see’s at the top of the page is 40+ PLENTY OF FISH and it’s doing me no favours whatsoever mate Google knows where to find virgins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kitchen Sales said: Google knows where to find virgins Mrs MadLad is still giving me dead eyes and it’s my birthday tomorrow. This forum is going to ruin my life Already cost me getting my knob sucked ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, LFCMadLad said: Mrs MadLad is still giving me dead eyes and it’s my birthday tomorrow. This forum is going to ruin my life If you go in the politics section the keywords usually trigger the ads to change to "Muslim Singles" if that is any better for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Just now, Kitchen Sales said: If you go in the politics section the keywords usually trigger the ads to change to "Muslim Singles" if that is any better for you That doesn’t help as she once caught me on pornhub watching ‘smashing a Muslim bird’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 4, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: Can you please change the adverts on this forum please? Everytime Mrs Madlad looks over at my phone, all she see’s at the top of the page is 40+ PLENTY OF FISH and it’s doing me no favours whatsoever mate they're based on your browsing history mate. Also, hello to your missus if she's reading this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Stan said: they're based on your browsing history mate. Also, hello to your missus if she's reading this She said “what you wearing”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'd also say that even if I were to accept the argument that making no effort to win a match is justified by being shit, then it begs the question as to why so many clubs have such shit squads despite their gargantuan budgets. I can't think of a team outside the English big six as good as Celta Vigo, for example, who happily go toe to toe against Barcelona with a budget much smaller than the average PL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted January 4, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted January 4, 2018 I do enjoy playing devils advocate but at the end of the day, I'm not sticking up for shit football, I'm not saying it's good to watch and I'm not saying it's good for the league, merely pointing to certain sets of circumstances and saying, what do you expect? Chiefly the gulf in class between the top 6 and the rest and the financial incentives to 0-0 your way to 17th place if you have to. Take Everton, the last thing I want is to watch my team every week setting up not to lose and having 4 shots on target in the last 4 matches or whatever dire return it is. However, there is merit in this approach at times from Allardyce, it got us draws (with some luck) against Chelsea and Liverpool and a win at Newcastle which was our first away from home in almost a year. At other times, it's not on though. Handing West Brom the initiative and only getting a 0-0 draw because they're too fucking shit to score against us and lining up with three defensive midfielders at Bournemouth only to concede twice anyway, that is simply disgraceful. You also have to question how necessary it is for Everton to take the extreme "pragmatic" approach when we're closer to the top 6 than we are to scrapping for 17th place. Generally though, people need to remember where to point the finger. Outside the top 6 and probably Everton and Leicester, every club in the Premier League is living under the pressure of a constant suspended sentence where if they finish 18th instead of 17th it could cost them eight figure sums of money. It's easy to see why so many of them don't want to take risks and are in a persistent mindset of looking down the back of the sofa and diving in their neighbours bins to find the 40 points they need to survive another season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: I do enjoy playing devils advocate but at the end of the day, I'm not sticking up for shit football, I'm not saying it's good to watch and I'm not saying it's good for the league, merely pointing to certain sets of circumstances and saying, what do you expect? Chiefly the gulf in class between the top 6 and the rest and the financial incentives to 0-0 your way to 17th place if you have to. Take Everton, the last thing I want is to watch my team every week setting up not to lose and having 4 shots on target in the last 4 matches or whatever dire return it is. However, there is merit in this approach at times from Allardyce, it got us draws (with some luck) against Chelsea and Liverpool and a win at Newcastle which was our first away from home in almost a year. At other times, it's not on though. Handing West Brom the initiative and only getting a 0-0 draw because they're too fucking shit to score against us and lining up with three defensive midfielders at Bournemouth only to concede twice anyway, that is simply disgraceful. You also have to question how necessary it is for Everton to take the extreme "pragmatic" approach when we're closer to the top 6 than we are to scrapping for 17th place. Generally though, people need to remember where to point the finger. Outside the top 6 and probably Everton and Leicester, every club in the Premier League is living under the pressure of a constant suspended sentence where if they finish 18th instead of 17th it could cost them eight figure sums of money. It's easy to see why so many of them don't want to take risks and are in a persistent mindset of looking down the back of the sofa and diving in their neighbours bins to find the 40 points they need to survive another season. Day 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan Posted January 4, 2018 Author Administrator Share Posted January 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: She said “what you wearing”? I had no idea your missus was @SirBalon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 You don't need to be gung-ho for a respectable performance. But we shouldn't downgrade what respectable is to simply anything that gets a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK85 Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 45 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: Amazing how quickly Everton fans have taken to rabidly defending shit football now they've got Allardyce You've mistaken debating a point as me (because it will be, as there's only two here atm) 'rabidly defending shit football'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Stop defending it then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Son has to be the most gracious, genuine and happiest footballer in the world. Never seen the bloke not smiling. Criminally underrated. Love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Lucas said: Son has to be the most gracious, genuine and happiest footballer in the world. Never seen the bloke not smiling. Criminally underrated. Love him. Totally agree, great player. Never kicks up a fuss when not selected but always steps up when he is. More important to Spurs currently than Delli Alli in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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