FourFourTwo Rank Premier League Managers This Season

[Storts]

11 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Your starting XI is easily the best and arguably the most balanced in the league, bar City. 

Add the depth in Winks, Son, Moura, Sanchez, Wanyama, Rose, 

I really don't know what you are on about. 

Through a very lengthy period of planning and squad building. The fact it’s such a balanced side is credit to Pochettino. 

I’ve just stated facts - we massively punch above our weight in comparison to every other top six club in comparison financially.

That’s why the trophy argument annoys me too ... why there is this ridiculous expectation on us I don’t know. We do well to be where we are with our resources and that credit goes to the manager and begrudgingly to Levy.

I wouldn’t necessarily have him 2nd but to question the job he’s doing as if it is expected is credit to him really. Establishing us where he has is an exceptional effort. 

 

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, Storts said:

Through a very lengthy period of planning and squad building. The fact it’s such a balanced side is credit to Pochettino. 

I’ve just stated facts - we massively punch above our weight in comparison to every other top six club in comparison financially.

That’s why the trophy argument annoys me too ... why there is this ridiculous expectation on us I don’t know. We do well to be where we are with our resources and that credit goes to the manager and begrudgingly to Levy.

I wouldn’t necessarily have him 2nd but to question the job he’s doing as if it is expected is credit to him really. Establishing us where he has is an exceptional effort. 

 

Then he's more suited for a technical director role than a manager. I feel he should be doing more. Wage bill and how much a club spends doesn't mean anything if we are comparing quality.  

This is a Spurs team that on paper, is probably the 2nd best in the league. Starting XI and depth. Fairly certain if Alli or Kane get sold for a tremendous amount, you lot would be using those funds to find a quality replacement or invest in your weaknesses. Just as Liverpool did with Suarez and Coutinho. 

 

[Stan]

9 minutes ago, Storts said:

Through a very lengthy period of planning and squad building. The fact it’s such a balanced side is credit to Pochettino. 

I’ve just stated facts - we massively punch above our weight in comparison to every other top six club in comparison financially.

That’s why the trophy argument annoys me too ... why there is this ridiculous expectation on us I don’t know. We do well to be where we are with our resources and that credit goes to the manager and begrudgingly to Levy.

I wouldn’t necessarily have him 2nd but to question the job he’s doing as if it is expected is credit to him really. Establishing us where he has is an exceptional effort. 

 

i don't think it's a ridiculous expectation for you to win trophies, but given how well you do in the league considering the stuff you mention it would be nice I guess to have some silverware to add to it? 

[RandoEFC+]

Incredible that so many people have Wenger bottom 2 or 3 when you've got managers like Lambert, Hughes and Allardyce knocking about. Not saying top 5 or even necessarily top half but League Cup final, Europa semi final, the media don't half do a decent job of telling some people what to think.

[Asura]

Pochettino and Spurs are definitely doing well (not sure if they are punching above the weight or not) but they have been fantastic and the way he developed some of the young players needs a special mention. Not many of us could say the likes of Son, Alli are great players that could be playing in europe before they joined Spurs and pochettino should also be given credit for Dier, Dembele and also Kane's development I believe, we can debate on some of these names but I hope my point is being conveyed correctly. Many even predicted they would have a bad season since they were going to play in Wembley but he proved them all wrong. And he did all this on a smaller budget and also by playing good football. 

But I agree with some comments above that they should concentrate more on the cups and try to win something because no one remembers the league position few years later. 

[Rick]

1 hour ago, Storts said:

On my phone so won’t give a detailed reply but are we are massively punching above our weight. The other clubs around us have far bigger wage bills, far bigger income and spend a lot more money. Poch has done a marvellous job, and considering we’ve had 38 away games this season he’s done superbly to have us where he has

What a load of absolute bollocks. 

[Storts]

50 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Then he's more suited for a technical director role than a manager. I feel he should be doing more. Wage bill and how much a club spends doesn't mean anything if we are comparing quality.  

This is a Spurs team that on paper, is probably the 2nd best in the league. Starting XI and depth. Fairly certain if Alli or Kane get sold for a tremendous amount, you lot would be using those funds to find a quality replacement or invest in your weaknesses. Just as Liverpool did with Suarez and Coutinho. 

 

Wage bill and spending power certainly plays a massive part in this - the pulling calling for Dyche to be high in this list, quite rightly, is because he has competed against sides that have far greater resources than them. Burnley to the rest of the league, and what we are in comparison to the rest of the top 6.

I take your point on the quality, although I would dispute what you have said, because clearly we have deficiencies and we have been unable to have a squad that is strong enough to last a full season - but the majority of our best players are who they are today because of the manager. I don't need to tell you how much he has improved so many of our players. I could list them but it would be unnecessary because I like to hope it's extremely obvious how much they've come on.

I'm not sure we would - because we cannot pay the wages that the top players want. We have the lowest record buy of any of the top 6, and beyond that we cannot pay the wages huge money signings require. I think people understate and forget this point. 

[Storts]

49 minutes ago, Stan said:

i don't think it's a ridiculous expectation for you to win trophies, but given how well you do in the league considering the stuff you mention it would be nice I guess to have some silverware to add to it? 

Because Stan, there are only so many trophies to go round. Should Man United be winning a trophy every year? Should Man City? Or Chelsea? Or Liverpool? Or Arsenal? Of course I wish we added silverware, but people talk as if it's a foregone conclusion - there are 5 clubs with more expectation, with greater financial strength and the ability to go out each year and improve that it is not the easy task that you suggest. 

There are freak examples of trophy winners, yourselves for example, Wigan etc. but ultimately they are few and far between.

 

[Storts]

28 minutes ago, Asura said:

Pochettino and Spurs are definitely doing well (not sure if they are punching above the weight or not) but they have been fantastic and the way he developed some of the young players needs a special mention. Not many of us could say the likes of Son, Alli are great players that could be playing in europe before they joined Spurs and pochettino should also be given credit for Dier, Dembele and also Kane's development I believe, we can debate on some of these names but I hope my point is being conveyed correctly. Many even predicted they would have a bad season since they were going to play in Wembley but he proved them all wrong. And he did all this on a smaller budget and also by playing good football. 

But I agree with some comments above that they should concentrate more on the cups and try to win something because no one remembers the league position few years later. 

Great post - Agree yes - and that point I have highlighted is another example of the hypocrisy that often occurs when people discuss us. So many thought we'd struggle this season, yet at the same time we are now expected to be winning things - doesn't work both ways.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Storts said:

Great post - Agree yes - and that point I have highlighted is another example of the hypocrisy that often occurs when people discuss us. So many thought we'd struggle this season, yet at the same time we are now expected to be winning things - doesn't work both ways.

I didn't think you'd struggle! Your squad is too good and you have a good set up there and Pochettino deserves credit for what he's built at Spurs on less money. However, my point was also similar to Asura's in that very rarely is a 2nd or 3rd spot remembered in the league and it becomes more memorable if a trophy was won. It wouldn't be a freakish case should you win one. 

[Storts]

9 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan M.D. said:

What a load of absolute bollocks. 

Another insightful post. I'm not sure why you bother.

But as I'm in a good mood I will enlighten you to why it is entirely spot on - I could send you the whole tweet thread on the topic but a) I don't think you will read it and b) I'm not sure you will understand it - so I will just let you have a few selected facts.

Revenue: 

#THFC £306m revenue is still a fair way behind their rivals, e.g. #MUFC £581m are a full £275m higher,) followed by #MCFC £473m and #AFC £423m. That said, the gap to #LFC £364m and #CFC £361m has narrowed. pic.twitter.com/6WDMPqeiA0

8:39 AM - Apr 9, 2018

 

Commercial Revenue:

 

 

#THFC commercial revenue was up 24% (£14m) from £59m to £73m, the 6th highest in England, though still a long way below rest of Big Six, e.g. #MUFC £276m is almost 4 times as much. The facilities at the new stadium should help close the gap, e.g. NFL games & other major events. pic.twitter.com/sKS9g7Nifm

8:40 AM - Apr 9, 2018

 

Wages:

Even after the growth #THFC £127m wage bill is still miles behind the rest of the Big Six. The closest is Arsenal, £72m higher at £199m, while Manchester United’s £264m is more than twice as much. #MCFC covers a 13 month accounting period, so would be £244m for 12 months. pic.twitter.com/7iX8EDMpBB

8:53 AM - Apr 9, 2018

 

 

As a result of higher PL TV money, all clubs have reduced their wages to turnover ratio in 2016/17, but none are lower than #THFC 41%. The next lowest are Manchester United 45% and Arsenal 47%. pic.twitter.com/m0pQZcAYPJ

8:53 AM - Apr 9, 2018

 

 

I could go on with these but I won't for now. We have made a profit 11 of the last 13 years and have two of the top 4 record profits in the league. Unlike the rest of the big clubs - we have always been run to make a profit in the window - we've never been able to spend beyond our means. It's take us about 13 years from Jol to now to reach a stage where we are an established top four club. We are building an £800 million stadium, have built a state of the art training ground. Yet around all this Pochettino has been able to build a squad, and develop young players, into an exciting football team that has broken into the established elite without a mega money takeover and reckless expenditure. People love to hate us, and I can get it at times, but we really we are model for any club below us to build from. It has been a long slow process but it's entirely possible. 

 

It also shows @Stan going back to the trophies argument why right now the league is so much more important to the club. The real reason for our increase in revenue has been sustained success on the pitch and Champions League football - it's what this club needs right now with a stadium to finance and pay off. 

[Storts]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

I didn't think you'd struggle! Your squad is too good and you have a good set up there and Pochettino deserves credit for what he's built at Spurs on less money. However, my point was also similar to Asura's in that very rarely is a 2nd or 3rd spot remembered in the league and it becomes more memorable if a trophy was won. It wouldn't be a freakish case should you win one. 

A large number of people did, the majority predicted us outside the top four this season. I agree but at the same time as my post above says - for the club, league finishes are far more valuable at this stage. We have to keep establishing ourselves in those positions - and the rest will follow. We have to do things more slowly than other clubs, but i'm hoping in the long run it's worth it. 

[Storts]

8 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Storts on another half arsed fishing trip.

Not at all. Just giving a different perspective to what is an interesting debate. 

[Dan+]

Our fucking wage bill!!!!

I think Storts is right with the majority of what he's said. If you went directly off what they spent then you would have them being in Arsenal's position - 6th and unlikely to come close to the top four this year.

I do think the biggest thing that goes against Spurs is that they do get so much fawning over in the media. You might not agree but I've got this theory that you're a bit like England in the sense you're being bigged up to the point that you're expected to do better than you really ought to do - thus people poke fun when it doesn't actually happen. Although you do have this strange tendency to blow it from situations you shouldn't. Juventus this year for example. You were three quarters of the way there.

[Smiley Culture]

Guardiola, Dyche and Benitez the top three, with a special mention to Pochettino, and Pardew, De Boer and Hughes the worst three.

[Marc]

You need to start winning trophies.

You are financially in 6th place yet there’s been 10+ clubs that have won a trophy since you last won one. Overachieving in terms of league position but underachieving in terms of trophies. Nobody will remember that 5 year period when spurs finished top 4 for 5 years in a row. 

[Storts]

11 minutes ago, Dan said:

Our fucking wage bill!!!!

I think Storts is right with the majority of what he's said. If you went directly off what they spent then you would have them being in Arsenal's position - 6th and unlikely to come close to the top four this year.

I do think the biggest thing that goes against Spurs is that they do get so much fawning over in the media. You might not agree but I've got this theory that you're a bit like England in the sense you're being bigged up to the point that you're expected to do better than you really ought to do - thus people poke fun when it doesn't actually happen. Although you do have this strange tendency to blow it from situations you shouldn't. Juventus this year for example. You were three quarters of the way there.

I both agree and disagree. I definitely think that works against us - where people do expect us to better than we should in reality. I also think it comes with the territory of being a big club, with a large fanbase (a lot of idiots amongst them) but not really successful in recent years, so it all plays into that. 

I do disagree with some of the media stuff though - we get a very raw deal at the same time. They consistently undermine us, try to sell our best players, constant discussions about how we can't hang on to this player or that. Saying we have to win trophies to keep them etc. Yet the heavy Liverpool bias in the media largely lets them off in the exact same situation, no trophies for a long time, selling off their best players regularly, but you just wouldn't know it. 

On the final point - well yes, we're Tottenham, it's what we do best  And what Pochettino has slowly started to change, but again the mentality is still not quite there and we need to get over that hurdle. But going back to your original point - the previous two years when we supposedly 'bottled' it - is actually nonsense, neither you were we really in a title race, both you and Chelsea were too good, yet that's not the perception people have.

We have been criticised immensely for that, yet where has the widespread condemnation been for the other big clubs for their utter failures the last few years to challenge. For some reason we get the lion share of the criticism. 

[Storts]

9 minutes ago, Marc said:

You need to start winning trophies.

You are financially in 6th place yet there’s been 10+ clubs that have won a trophy since you last won one. Overachieving in terms of league position but underachieving in terms of trophies. Nobody will remember that 5 year period when spurs finished top 4 for 5 years in a row. 

Again, I agree and disagree. 

You may not remember it - but it isn't about the 5 year period, it's about setting us up for the long haul and hopefully a lot more trophies going forward. We can't do anything of things we want to do without first properly establishing ourselves with the revenue and commercial value that others around us have. Everybody wants a quick fix and it's frustrating for our fans more than most, but I appreciate what the club have done to manoeuvre our way to this position.

An FA Cup this year would be wonderful - and a much needed feel good moment, but it doesn't really change that much in terms of the club's trajectory like league finishes do. The only real mitigating factor would be the potential boost to the mentality of the players at the club.

[Rick]

@Storts I think it's bollocks because you've been in around the top 4 for long enough to build from it. You spend plenty, plenty enough to have built up a very good first 11 with great options on the bench. And before you say it's been a slow building process, can I point out that the likes of Alli, Kane, Son, Eriksen, Wanyama, Trippier, Sanchez & Aldeweireld are all fairly recent additions. Last 2/3 years mostly. 

Your squad and manager need to step up now, can't keep playing the "lil ol' me" card just because you don't piss money on shite like Utd. 

[Storts]

Just now, Mantis Toboggan M.D. said:

@Storts I think it's bollocks because you've been in around the top 4 for long enough to build from it. You spend plenty, plenty enough to have built up a very good first 11 with great options on the bench. And before you say it's been a slow building process, can I point out that the likes of Alli, Kane, Son, Eriksen, Wanyama, Trippier, Sanchez & Aldeweireld are all fairly recent additions. Last 2/3 years mostly. 

Your squad and manager need to step up now, can't keep playing the "lil ol' me" card just because you don't piss money on shite like Utd. 

But we're not the only ones trying to improve - every other club around us has also spent big money, bigger money in fact, and double the wages in some cases. To get to where we have is great, but still have massive hurdles to clear before we should really be expected to compete on a regular basis. We have an excellent first team, no doubt about it, and credit to the manager and the club for that - but our achilles heel before that was a) the lack of real squad to take us over the edge in a 38 game season and b) the inability to sign that one star player to make a difference. Wages are the really restriction for us - and that ultimately is where it makes a real difference. 

I agree they should and need to step up going forward. But I'm not impatient - I can see the improvement and the fine work that Pochettino is doing, around teams that are throwing money around trying to improve as well. I just think people lose this perspective and I've tried to show why over expectations on us are pretty unfair. 

[Rick]

You need to stop spending on crap like Nkoudou, N'Ji (sp?) & most recently Moura. None of those players are improving on Alli or Son in that sort of position and they're pricey to just have as squad players. The fees for those should have been spend on one real difference maker, a proper creative CM I'd say. 

Like you mentioned, the wages are an issue. This is where I think Daniel Levy is failing. Players now won't move to you for 30/40/50k a week less than what they can get elsewhere. He needs to loosen the purse strings with that now, cause while its commendable in theory, in practice it hinders you too much.

[Storts]

8 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan M.D. said:

You need to stop spending on crap like Nkoudou, N'Ji (sp?) & most recently Moura. None of those players are improving on Alli or Son in that sort of position and they're pricey to just have as squad players. The fees for those should have been spend on one real difference maker, a proper creative CM I'd say. 

Like you mentioned, the wages are an issue. This is where I think Daniel Levy is failing. Players now won't move to you for 30/40/50k a week less than what they can get elsewhere. He needs to loosen the purse strings with that now, cause while its commendable in theory, in practice it hinders you too much.

You say that - but that's half the problem. We cannot afford to buy ready made stars - we have to try and find these gems, and unfortunately those two haven't paid off. But it's a really difficult balancing act. Moura doesn't deserve to be mentioned with those two. He's a very good player - Poch just is slow to integrate players because he expects them to be so fit. 

He won't do it yet though - but continue to finish top 4 and when the new stadium is up and running and increased commercial revenue then I'm sure he will. As I said it's been a long slow process but you can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. 

 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

3 hours ago, Dan said:

Still think it's way too early. How can you put Wagner 10th when Huddersfield could still go down? Carvalhal 5th? Fucking hell.

How can Carvalhal be 5th and Hodgson 15th?

Pochettino 2nd is a joke as well. 4th at best for me. Top three are Guardiola, Dyche and Benitez - assuming neither of the latter fall to bits.

Agree with Carvalhal. Swansea might only be safe simply because Stoke and Southampton have been utter shite. He may have turned them around a bit, but so did Clement when he started and we know how that ended up.

[Dan+]

3 hours ago, Storts said:

I both agree and disagree. I definitely think that works against us - where people do expect us to better than we should in reality. I also think it comes with the territory of being a big club, with a large fanbase (a lot of idiots amongst them) but not really successful in recent years, so it all plays into that. 

I do disagree with some of the media stuff though - we get a very raw deal at the same time. They consistently undermine us, try to sell our best players, constant discussions about how we can't hang on to this player or that. Saying we have to win trophies to keep them etc. Yet the heavy Liverpool bias in the media largely lets them off in the exact same situation, no trophies for a long time, selling off their best players regularly, but you just wouldn't know it. 

On the final point - well yes, we're Tottenham, it's what we do best  And what Pochettino has slowly started to change, but again the mentality is still not quite there and we need to get over that hurdle. But going back to your original point - the previous two years when we supposedly 'bottled' it - is actually nonsense, neither you were we really in a title race, both you and Chelsea were too good, yet that's not the perception people have.

We have been criticised immensely for that, yet where has the widespread condemnation been for the other big clubs for their utter failures the last few years to challenge. For some reason we get the lion share of the criticism. 

I think a lot of it is over your players rather than club. I was seeing comments calling you genuine CL contenders because of your result in Turin and I just read it thinking.... really? They aren't even through this yet. Sure enough, out you went.

I do agree on Liverpool and have noticed it a lot myself this year. Liverpool get as much crap off fans as any club in the country, but in the media I agree they get an easy ride.

I totally agree about your point about being bottlers. I think the way you threw points away at home to West Brom, away at Chelsea, and then next year away at West Ham is where a lot of it stems from. If you bottled the title, surely Man Utd did this weekend using that same metric?

It amazes me how many of our fans call you bottlers. There was obviously needle that season, but calling you bottlers actually plays down our own achievement. I find it backwards.

[Dan+]

3 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

Guardiola, Dyche and Benitez the top three, with a special mention to Pochettino, and Pardew, De Boer and Hughes the worst three.

Pellegrino surely?