LFCMike Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I did expect a title challenge because you expect at least a maintanance of improvement or better at least. But the bare minimum for them now is qualification for the Champions League (top 4) and winning a trophy in the next 2 years. Otherwise we can call this stagnation and mediocrity. Absolutely.
SirBalon Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Just now, LFCMike said: Absolutely. But remember that we're talking about the bare minimum here mate. Fans expect improvement although PLC's (shareholders) demand being able to cash in dividends.
Danny Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Classic @SirBalon giving a counter argument to someone agreeing with him
Inverted Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 He is overachieving relative to budget, but not relative to the talent he has available. There, case closed.
SirBalon Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Danny said: Classic @SirBalon giving a counter argument to someone agreeing with him I'm trying to open up new avenues on the debate...
The Artful Dodger Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 The dominance of Manchester City has somewhat distorted things this season, the other 3 have muddled around knowing they could finish top 4 and 4th, 3rd or 2nd doesn't really matter. Chelsea are not far off but Arsenal are the worst I've ever seen them and getting worse.
Rick Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 On 11/05/2018 at 13:18, Inverted said: He is overachieving relative to budget, but not relative to the talent he has available. There, case closed. This. Their squad is second to City, and considering they bottled Europe, they should have put up a better showing.
Inverted Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 49 minutes ago, Mantis Toboggan M.D. said: This. Their squad is second to City, and considering they bottled Europe, they should have put up a better showing. He's done brilliantly to amass such a strong squad (despite a couple of flop signings) and bring the players he inherited like Vertonghen and Eriksen to such a consistently high level, I don't mean to diminish that at all. But he doesn't bring any really special performances out of them. I don't think they underperform - in terms of quality you cant say you "expect" them to beat Juve - but nor does Poch seem to be at the level yet where he can send a team out to achieve truly spectacular results against qualitatively better opposition. Hes built a very strong squad for the budget he's given, and the squad consistently achieves what you'd reasonably expect of them.
SirBalon Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 30 minutes ago, Inverted said: He's done brilliantly to amass such a strong squad (despite a couple of flop signings) and bring the players he inherited like Vertonghen and Eriksen to such a consistently high level, I don't mean to diminish that at all. But he doesn't bring any really special performances out of them. I don't think they underperform - in terms of quality you cant say you "expect" them to beat Juve - but nor does Poch seem to be at the level yet where he can send a team out to achieve truly spectacular results against qualitatively better opposition. Hes built a very strong squad for the budget he's given, and the squad consistently achieves what you'd reasonably expect of them. They also beat Real Madrid. I think there are small details missing from success for Pochettino and Spurs. Very small! But it doesn't mean that because they may be small that they are easily to sort out and get right.
Dave Posted May 13, 2018 Author Posted May 13, 2018 His post match comments today were interesting....
Panna King Posted May 13, 2018 Posted May 13, 2018 He has spent a lot of money on players, when you look at they bought sanchez for nearly 48 million, Sissoko 30 million, Son 30 million, Lucas 30 million, Aurrer, 24 million, Janssen 21 million, he has spent over 200 million.
Danny Posted May 14, 2018 Posted May 14, 2018 46 minutes ago, Panna King said: He has spent a lot of money on players, when you look at they bought sanchez for nearly 48 million, Sissoko 30 million, Son 30 million, Lucas 30 million, Aurrer, 24 million, Janssen 21 million, he has spent over 200 million. Lucas was £25m, Sanchez £42m, Son £22m...£19m off already there. Compare how much Aurier cost to Walker, Sanchez to Van Dijk, Moura to Pogba or Keita...you can't really argue Spurs have spent that much compared to the rest of the top 6 and what really holds a club back is the wage limit which will be much lower than their rivals.
Panna King Posted May 14, 2018 Posted May 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, Danny said: Lucas was £25m, Sanchez £42m, Son £22m...£19m off already there. Compare how much Aurier cost to Walker, Sanchez to Van Dijk, Moura to Pogba or Keita...you can't really argue Spurs have spent that much compared to the rest of the top 6 and what really holds a club back is the wage limit which will be much lower than their rivals. Not really sure how you can compare players like Moura to Pogba also Aurrier to Walker as they were reserve players at PSG plus they had to get rid of them for financial fairplay rules. Sanchez also was bought for silly money who only had 1 season at Ajax who bought him a year before for about 2.5 million.
Danny Posted May 14, 2018 Posted May 14, 2018 23 minutes ago, Panna King said: Not really sure how you can compare players like Moura to Pogba also Aurrier to Walker as they were reserve players at PSG plus they had to get rid of them for financial fairplay rules. Sanchez also was bought for silly money who only had 1 season at Ajax who bought him a year before for about 2.5 million. Airier was brought in to replace Walker, Moura is an attacking midfielder...Pogba is also an attacking midfielder. But OK I'll make a fairer comparison, how much did Eriksen cost compared to Pogba? They haven't spent a lot in comparison to other top 6 teams.
Panna King Posted May 14, 2018 Posted May 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, Danny said: Airier was brought in to replace Walker, Moura is an attacking midfielder...Pogba is also an attacking midfielder. But OK I'll make a fairer comparison, how much did Eriksen cost compared to Pogba? They haven't spent a lot in comparison to other top 6 teams. Again Eriksen came from Ajax but was on his last year contract and Pogba came from Juventus who played in Champions League final before. Tottenham have bought different calibre of players who have improved at Spurs but still overall they have spent alot of money.
Danny Posted May 14, 2018 Posted May 14, 2018 54 minutes ago, Panna King said: Again Eriksen came from Ajax but was on his last year contract and Pogba came from Juventus who played in Champions League final before. Tottenham have bought different calibre of players who have improved at Spurs but still overall they have spent alot of money. But they haven't spent a lot compared to their rivals. They are above Arsenal and Chelsea who have both spent more than them. Saying Spurs have spent a lot is like saying Huddersfield have spent a lot, theres no context. Spurs have spent a lot compared to Huddersfield and Huddersfield have spent a lot compared to the average Championship side but within their own competition they have not spent a lot. Eriksen was bought in his last year because Spurs couldn't afford to buy him sooner.
Dave Posted May 14, 2018 Author Posted May 14, 2018 Well it looks like the board are taking note of his ambitions comment. Kyle Walker-Peters has signed a new contract.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted May 16, 2018 Subscriber Posted May 16, 2018 He has over achieved over time. Even the best teams can't improve every season so it's harsh to call this season an under achievement. Another year with no trophies and just top 4 and he'll probably feel like it's time to move on, and the fans may feel that they want someone who can break that duck for them now.
Dr. Gonzo Posted May 16, 2018 Posted May 16, 2018 2 hours ago, RandoEFC said: He has over achieved over time. Even the best teams can't improve every season so it's harsh to call this season an under achievement. Another year with no trophies and just top 4 and he'll probably feel like it's time to move on, and the fans may feel that they want someone who can break that duck for them now. If I was a Tottenham fan I'd prefer the stability and slow and steady progress over a fresh start with way more potential unknowns. I'm not a fan of sacking a manager who's proven himself at a club and isn't showing continued regression (and I'd be okay with some regression if there was evidence of tangible success in the past - trophies - and letting the manager try to stop the rot next season). Like Arsene Wenger had the track record to afford him some time, but he never could stop the rot even after many years... if he didn't step down he'd justifiably get the sack imo). If Poch takes Spurs to 2nd-4th next year and goes on cup runs that have early exits... I'd stick with that despite the failure to win anything. Better than going with an unknown who could fuck up all progress. Might be different for Poch, if someone comes in for him, like City, the Spanish giants, Juve or Bayern... he might take that. I could also see Argentina come calling. He's a very good manager. This is the best Spurs side in our lifetimes. I think they should be wanting him to stay for as long as possible.
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