Administrator Stan Posted July 18, 2018 Administrator Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: We've been to 3 finals in the 2 1/2 years he's been here. The League Cup, Europa League and the Champions League. Lost them all unfortunately but it shows the progress that has been made under Klopp. what progress? since he's been with you, you're trophyless. you've gone from 0 trophies to 0 trophies.
LFCMadLad Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Stan said: what progress? since he's been with you, you're trophyless. you've gone from 0 trophies to 0 trophies. I honestly don't care, I really don't. Being a Liverpool supporter now compared to post Benitez - pre Klopp is absolutely fantastic, regardless of if we win anything or not. Progress = 3 cup finals, back in the Champions League and now shopping at the top transfer table instead of buying potential and bargain basement buys. Things are good.
LFCMike Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Cannabis said: Yeah, that fist-pump on the sidelines goes a long way too. The man's an absolute genius, wins absolutely nothing yet is considered the second coming of Christ. Benitez won more than him and should really be considered the better manager in Liverpool "folklore". He's a big game bottler too, I'm sure I saw a stat that said he'd been involved in about 16,247 finals and lost all but one of them. Erm, he is? He won a European Cup and FA Cup so until Klopp does that then that will be the case
Administrator Stan Posted July 18, 2018 Administrator Posted July 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: I honestly don't care, I really don't. Being a Liverpool supporter now compared to post Benitez - pre Klopp is absolutely fantastic, regardless of if we win anything or not. Progress = 3 cup finals, back in the Champions League and now shopping at the top transfer table instead of buying potential and bargain basement buys. Things are good. does the not mean anything these days?!
LFCMadLad Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Stan said: does the not mean anything these days?! Of course, I was just expressing my feelings to you Stan
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 18, 2018 Subscriber Posted July 18, 2018 If Liverpool fans don't expect a return on their £140m investment in Van Dijk and Allison then I can't wait to see what they have to say about Mourinho's spending if United also win nothing this season.
Administrator Stan Posted July 18, 2018 Administrator Posted July 18, 2018 Alisson leaving Italy for Manchester, then onwards to Liverpool https://gianlucadimarzio.com/it/roma-alisson-in-partenza-per-linghilterra-le-foto
LFCMike Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: If Liverpool fans don't expect a return on their £140m investment in Van Dijk and Allison then I can't wait to see what they have to say about Mourinho's spending if United also win nothing this season. Who's saying that we don't? I've not seen anyone say we don't apart from a Chelsea fan
Burning Gold Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, RandoEFC said: Apparently Karius was fine last season up to the Champions League final according to Liverpool fans. A few have even said they wouldn't have major concerns over keeping him as number one this season. I agree with whoever said that you shouldn't scoff at transfer fees anymore because who knows what's good value in this market but there is an opportunity cost to buying a goalkeeper for 75m in that that's 75m you can't spend in other areas of the squad. If Karius, for all of the jokes, isn't the disaster he showed the world in the Champions League final, and Mignolet whilst also laughed at being a better number two goalkeeper than most teams have in the league, does this outlay represent a 75m improvement in Liverpool's assets? Could they have found a different goalkeeper for 40m or so who is an upgrade on Karius and spent the other 35m on a really good backup striker instead of Ings? I suppose we will see. People are nail on the head with Klopp though. While going back on his "doing things a different way" comments regarding the transfer strategy of other clubs and their big spending is superficial and unimportant in the grand scheme of things, you can only spend so much money before you have to justify it. Klopp has taken Liverpool forward but they've still enjoyed no more success than the much more financially conservative Tottenham in recent years and less than Arsenal or Chelsea who haven't been close to making one 75m signing let alone two in the space of six months. To be fair though the sales of Suarez and Coutinho in recent years do balance things out a bit more. I see what you're getting at and I do agree to an extent, but that's a short term perspective. With this coming season in mind, buying a £40m keeper and spending the change elsewhere may well have been the most cost-effective way of upgrading the squad. But then next Summer we'd still be in the same boat of not having a top class keeper and we'd still have to spend in the region of £66m to get one (probably more with inflation actually) which just means our total spend in the long run is higher. Doing it this way, we've got the keeper we want for years to come for the minimum outlay. Also, it's probably fair to say I'm one of Karius's biggest defenders amongst our fanbase. If Alisson is as good as I've heard, this absolutely represents good value in terms of improving the squad because Karius and Mignolet is the worst goalkeeper situation in the top 6. By the way, it's hilarious to see people saying Liverpool now need to finally start pushing for major trophies as if we weren't 90 minutes away from the biggest prize in club football last season.
SirBalon Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: By the way, it's hilarious to see people saying Liverpool now need to finally start pushing for major trophies as if we weren't 90 minutes away from the biggest prize in club football last season. Yeah, but you’ve substantially improved on the reason you weren’t in there with a genuine chance in the end. So in fairness we’re talking about being better than that including the other arrivals.
Cicero Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, Burning Gold said: By the way, it's hilarious to see people saying Liverpool now need to finally start pushing for major trophies as if we weren't 90 minutes away from the biggest prize in club football last season. Haven't improved Klopps finals record. To be quite honest, I think Liverpool will do well this season. Even predicted either them or Spurs will win a trophy this season.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 18, 2018 Subscriber Posted July 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, LFCMike said: Who's saying that we don't? I've not seen anyone say we don't apart from a Chelsea fan Mainly MadLad if you look back a few posts. My only point is that one of the main things that I argue against on here is double standards. Mourinho, for example, gets a lot of stick for spending loads of money and being so far away from Manchester City last season, and some of the fans who beat him with that stick are Liverpool fans on here. You (not specifically you perhaps) can't expect to dish out that line against Mourinho then not expect to have the same thing thrown back at Klopp if Liverpool have another trophiless season after he spends £75m on a centre back and another £66m on a goalkeeper as well as the whatever it was on Naby Keita and however much you've spent on Fabinho.
LFCMadLad Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Yeah, but you’ve substantially improved on the reason you weren’t in there with a genuine chance in the end. So in fairness we’re talking about being better than that including the other arrivals. We were in with a genuine chance though? In fact we were all over them until Salah went off and would have been equal had it not been for 2 Karius howlers.
The Liquidator Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 49 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: I honestly don't care, I really don't. Being a Liverpool supporter now compared to post Benitez - pre Klopp is absolutely fantastic, regardless of if we win anything or not. Progress = 3 cup finals, back in the Champions League and now shopping at the top transfer table instead of buying potential and bargain basement buys. Things are good. "Shit on a stick" syndrome at its very worse
LFCMadLad Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: Mainly MadLad if you look back a few posts. My only point is that one of the main things that I argue against on here is double standards. Mourinho, for example, gets a lot of stick for spending loads of money and being so far away from Manchester City last season, and some of the fans who beat him with that stick are Liverpool fans on here. You (not specifically you perhaps) can't expect to dish out that line against Mourinho then not expect to have the same thing thrown back at Klopp if Liverpool have another trophiless season after he spends £75m on a centre back and another £66m on a goalkeeper as well as the whatever it was on Naby Keita and however much you've spent on Fabinho. I did actually say that a title challenge should now be a realistic expectation.
LFCMadLad Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, The Liquidator said: "Shit on a stick" syndrome at its very worse Will he improve us though?
The Liquidator Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Just now, LFCMadLad said: Will he improve us though? You sure you want me tell you your future correctly for a 2nd season running?
Cicero Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: I did actually say that a title challenge should now be a realistic expectation. As it most definitely should. As things stand, its between you and City
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 18, 2018 Subscriber Posted July 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: I did actually say that a title challenge should now be a realistic expectation. You also said you didn't care whether you win anything (not trying to take that out of context by the way other people can go back and read the post in full) which is what other people are referring to as well as myself, the only point being that if a United fan said that after the money Mourinho has spent you'd probably be straight on their case.
LFCMike Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: Mainly MadLad if you look back a few posts. My only point is that one of the main things that I argue against on here is double standards. Mourinho, for example, gets a lot of stick for spending loads of money and being so far away from Manchester City last season, and some of the fans who beat him with that stick are Liverpool fans on here. You (not specifically you perhaps) can't expect to dish out that line against Mourinho then not expect to have the same thing thrown back at Klopp if Liverpool have another trophiless season after he spends £75m on a centre back and another £66m on a goalkeeper as well as the whatever it was on Naby Keita and however much you've spent on Fabinho. He said a title challenge is realistic but that Klopp won't necessarily be under any pressure if we don't win anything. I think that's fair. Unless of course it goes massively tits up and we're way off winning anything and finish outside top four.
The Artful Dodger Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Cicero said: Klopp plays beautiful football though so he gets an automatic pass You say that in jest but it's definitely a factor which retains goodwill.
SirBalon Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: We were in with a genuine chance though? In fact we were all over them until Salah went off and would have been equal had it not been for 2 Karius howlers. This is true but that’s where a coach having a plan ‘b’ and also diversity is important. Portugal lost Cristiano Ronaldo early on in the 2016 European Championship Final and still won against France.
Cicero Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: You say that in jest but it's definitely a factor which retains goodwill. Fairly certain the ambition of the Liverpool board best matches the club winning silverware vs playing great football but winning sod all.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 18, 2018 Subscriber Posted July 18, 2018 Playing good football does buy you more time rightly or wrongly, it did for Martinez at Everton and that probably falls into the wrongly category. Regardless of whether he plays good or shit football I agree that if Klopp has another season where Liverpool finish 2nd or 3rd and get to a cup final but win nothing then he probably won't come under pressure, and shouldn't, but if you make it another 2 or 3 years there's only so much you can progress without needing to win silverware at some point, especially if you spend at the rate he's starting to. Hope I'm wrong but my honest appraisal is that it's probably a matter of time until Klopp wins something at Anfield so it would be stupid to sack him off now in favour of another manager who would have to start the whole process again of putting their stamp on things and building a team that is optimum for their tactics like Klopp has had time to do over the last few years.
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