Sunday 16th September - Everton 1-3 West Ham

[RandoEFC+]

2 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

One win from Wolves, Southampton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield and West Ham is a really poor return

It's almost as if changing the Director of Football, manager, style of play and overall philosophy of the club and not playing the same back four more than once in the first six matches, having two games where players were sent off this season might actually hinder results on the pitch init. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Dan said:

So much so that not a single one went to Russia.

That wasn't because of the standard it was something to do with one gokng to Saudi Arabia or something 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

After losing 3-1 against a side at the bottom of the table who havent got a point yet? 

Are you taking the piss?

Didn't realise you had lost 3.1

[Stan]

20 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Footballers don't have to come out and explain every mistake they make. 

No, they don't have to. But they will get asked about it post match if a reporter chooses to and then they'll have an opportunity to answer. How they answer that is a different matter. But at least a journo or someone can have that option to ask. They don't get that with refs. 

[LFCMike]

13 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

It's almost as if changing the Director of Football, manager, style of play and overall philosophy of the club and not playing the same back four more than once in the first six matches, having two games where players were sent off this season might actually hinder results on the pitch init. 

Fair point with the sending offs in the two away games and you did well to get a point from both really but the home games against a really poor Huddersfield and winless West Ham should be 6 points regardless

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

No, they don't have to. But they will get asked about it post match if a reporter chooses to and then they'll have an opportunity to answer. How they answer that is a different matter. But at least a journo or someone can have that option to ask. They don't get that with refs. 

Fair enough but that's not the refs fault. And footballers normally get asked about the team performance not individual errors

[RandoEFC+]

10 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Fair point with the sending offs in the two away games and you did well to get a point from both really but the home games against a really poor Huddersfield and winless West Ham should be 6 points regardless

Should be, and we've been really poor not to win those games, but these are two disappointing results on what's likely to be a long term learning curve for this team. It's not like we're going to be competing for any league positions of note this season even though some of our thicker fans seemed to think going unbeaten in four games including three draws against teams like you've mentioned is somehow going to be the basis of a top six challenge.

Finishing 7th and getting into Europe would be a nice bonus but this season isn't about where we finish, unless we get dragged right down into the shitter which I can't see happening, it's about putting building blocks in place for the years to come. We will only get better over time. We still have yet to see Mina and Gomes take to the field, Bernard has made two substitute appearances and Richarlison has been suspended for three and a half of our six games this season but has otherwise been excellent for his admittedly limited time on the pitch so far. The rest of this team is still last season's mess apart from Kurt Zouma and Lucas Digne but with young players replacing a lot of the unwanted dross we got rid of.

I'll judge this Everton on how we settle over the course of this season when Silva has a full-strength squad available and a stable lineup for a run of games, and on how much he is able to develop Holgate, Kenny, Dowell, Davies, Lookman and Calvert-Lewin into players who can actually fulfil a full role in the first team squad.

Even if we have another half a dozen days like this and finish 11th I still think he gets plenty more time from me. I initially thought after last season that Koeman and Walsh had probably fucked us for the next three years with the money they spent and the contracts they've handed out. After the good work done by the new Director of Football in this window I'd revise that period of time down a bit but it's important to bear in mind what a mess we were in just a few months ago and not to expect us to be consistent and reliable in trying to execute a completely new brand of football two months into a new regime when we have so many new faces in the first team, so many other players missing, and a number of young players who are being expected to adapt to a fourth different manager in the space of twelve months.

[Dave]

Everton can't even claim they won the transfer window.

[Danny]

Knowing how much this loss has hurt @Cannabis, this is a great day for TF366

[DeadLinesman]

11 minutes ago, Danny said:

Knowing how much this loss has hurt @Cannabis, this is a great day for TF366

What website is that mate?

[Danny]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

What website is that mate?

A better one than this 

[DeadLinesman]

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

A better one than this 

Is Klopp under pressure on that one?

[Danny]

11 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Is Klopp under pressure on that one?

Yeah, and there's an admin on there who's a West Ham fan who furiously hates Everton....think it's a parallel universe 

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

Is Klopp under pressure on that one?

Klopp is getting right under your skin I see 

[DeadLinesman]

I’m not particularly arsed about United at the moment, but yeah, a random German managing Liverpool is getting right under my skin.....

[LFCMadLad]

24 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’m not particularly arsed about United at the moment, but yeah, a random German managing Liverpool is getting right under my skin.....

Luv u  xxx

[Smiley Culture]

A Marco Silva team shipping goals is no surprise. That’s no clean sheets in all competitions this season and goals conceded to West Ham (3), Bournemouth (2), Wolves (1) and Huddersfield (1). 

 

[RandoEFC+]

31 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

A Marco Silva team shipping goals is no surprise. That’s no clean sheets in all competitions this season and goals conceded to West Ham (3), Bournemouth (2), Wolves (1) and Huddersfield (1). 

 

And we will keep conceding goals for a while. Shockingly, a team that goes from playing "defend on the edge of the six yard box and have ten men behind the ball at all times" Allardyce tactics to "high press, high line, zonal marking" Silva tactics will take more than five minutes to adapt. I'd save making judgements until we actually field the same back four for two games running for a start and even then it takes a long time. Klopp's Liverpool (as an obvious example before the obsession shouts) were leaky as fuck for over two seasons before he (with the help of a few gazillions) managed to sort that out.

Our back four yesterday was two under 21 players and two new signings making their 2nd starts for the club and had none of the same players as our back four on the opening day of the season with three of those changes being enforced. We'll see how we settle a few months down the line.

[LFCMadLad]

5 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Haven't seen an AIDSfest like that in a long time. We were absolutely bullied and played off the park by a West Ham side that everyone has been laughing at. I called it like most before the game too, regardless of past results we were going to drop points here. 

Pickford was poor, totally at fault for the second goal. Jonjoe Kenny was appalling, demanding that his intentions were checked, verified and signed off before playing a pass, flat around refusing to just kick the fucking thing and give us some rhythm. Kurt Zouma continues to confirm my fears, way out of his depth at Chelsea and an integral part of a Stoke City defence that shipped about 16,000 goals last season - get Yerry in soon. Holgate was alright but mugged off for the first goal. Digne I actually thought did OK, was about a 6/10 so thus our MOTM I suppose. 

Credit to Schneiderlin for playing under the circumstances, that's all I'll say on the lad today. Gueye's passing was on par with Steven Hawking's for large portions of the game however seemed to settle when Bernard came on alongside him, the Brazilian himself at least trying to create a spark although it was an uphill battle.

Walcott was bang average but had Kenny behind offering the square root of fuck all, on the opposite flank DCL had an absolute shocker and I'm disappointed that the Bernard change wasn't for him to come off, how he lasted 90 minutes is beyond me but perhaps it's because he's tall up against West Ham's Empire State defence? Siggy as captain was anonymous although took his goal very well - plus points for that. Up top Tosun was gash, had one good chance and took about fourteen years to take it. 

Overall, a shocking display in every sense of the word. The Evertonians clapping the lads off at the end left me speechless and are part of the problem. We are still laying the foundations under Silva but if this is the kind of football we are going to be given then we should have just saved a few quid and kept hold of Koeman and/or Allardyce.

Do you think It would have been more helpfull to the players and manager if the fans had booooood the team at the final whistle? Genuine question!

I know that's what Everton fans usually do but it's proven in the past to not motivate anyone at all. 

[RandoEFC+]

44 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Do you think It would have been more helpfull to the players and manager if the fans had booooood the team at the final whistle? Genuine question!

I know that's what Everton fans usually do but it's proven in the past to not motivate anyone at all. 

Booing the team off after their first defeat under a new regime which is six matches old would have been ridiculous. However, applauding the players off after a performance like that also doesn't strike any of the right notes with me.

Yesterday aside, I do have an issue with some of the negativity from our fans sometimes, not @Cannabis above, but just the general apathy towards getting behind the team. At kick off yesterday I was trying to work out what our fans were singing only to realise it was West Hams blowing bubbles song. Like I said earlier in the thread I'm not here to bash match going fans but I don't understand how so many people can turn up to the game after putting up with the international break for two weeks and just accept the away support rocking up to Goodison and instantly making us sound like the away team. Sadly from my past experience at Goodison our home fans still seem to see kick off as the start of waiting until we take the lead. The team needs support and if replacing Allardyce with an exciting young manager just like everyone was crying out for can't get the crowd up a bit at the start of the game then I don't know what it is we want.

Outside of the stadium as well though, I'm reading up and down Twitter about how Calvert-Lewin, Kenny, Holgate and co just aren't good enough for top flight football. 21 year old lads having one bad game trying to make their way in the first team squad under four different managers since the start of last season and they're getting written off already.

Let's just say, you're already starting to see the true fickle colours of an unfortunate sized portion of our fanbase who were blowing the "let's be patient and stick with this manager" trumpet in pre season but a couple of draws salvaged with ten men at Wolves and Bournemouth and a narrow home win over Southampton and they've suddenly forgot all that and expect us to challenge for top six again and put four past the likes of West Ham without getting out of second gear.

Yesterday was shite but we need to retain some perspective here and actually try and support the team though perhaps not in the form of applauding players off the pitch en masse after... that.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Booing the team off after their first defeat under a new regime which is six matches old would have been ridiculous. However, applauding the players off after a performance like that also doesn't strike any of the right notes with me.

Yesterday aside, I do have an issue with some of the negativity from our fans sometimes, not @Cannabis above, but just the general apathy towards getting behind the team. At kick off yesterday I was trying to work out what our fans were singing only to realise it was West Hams blowing bubbles song. Like I said earlier in the thread I'm not here to bash match going fans but I don't understand how so many people can turn up to the game after putting up with the international break for two weeks and just accept the away support rocking up to Goodison and instantly making us sound like the away team. Sadly from my past experience at Goodison our home fans still seem to see kick off as the start of waiting until we take the lead. The team needs support and if replacing Allardyce with an exciting young manager just like everyone was crying out for can't get the crowd up a bit at the start of the game then I don't know what it is we want.

Outside of the stadium as well though, I'm reading up and down Twitter about how Calvert-Lewin, Kenny, Holgate and co just aren't good enough for top flight football. 21 year old lads having one bad game trying to make their way in the first team squad under four different managers since the start of last season and they're getting written off already.

Let's just say, you're already starting to see the true fickle colours of an unfortunate sized portion of our fanbase who were blowing the "let's be patient and stick with this manager" trumpet in pre season but a couple of draws salvaged with ten men at Wolves and Bournemouth and a narrow home win over Southampton and they've suddenly forgot all that and expect us to challenge for top six again and put four past the likes of West Ham without getting out of second gear.

Yesterday was shite but we need to retain some perspective here and actually try and support the team though perhaps not in the form of applauding players off the pitch en masse after... that.

It does seem like a lot of Evertonians do have unrealistic expectations, despite the absence of stability at Everton in the last 4 years. You'd think more fans would recognise the imbalances in the side, understand a cohesive philosophy hasn't existed at the club from the management.

I think you've got a new manager and DoF with a big job on their hands and they have a big project on their hands, it will require patience.

[Danny]

Felipe Anderson would be a great player for a club like Spurs, Liverpool etc to take in on a free transfer or a cheap fee. Obviously he's cost a lot more than that and that's why West Ham have signed him, he is just consistently class for them and playing in a relegation battling side is probably not the best thing for his career.