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Can Italian Clubs Return To The Fore In Europe

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Can other Serie A clubs follow Juve's lead in the next couple of seasons and return to a level of formidable opponents making semi finals and finals?

 

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Milan and Inter will follow. Napoli, Lazio, and Roma will forever be in limbo due to their up and down finances.

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Just now, Aaroncpfc said:

They can do. German football has shown you dont need mega investment to compete.

You mean that yellow team that got lucky with scouting and youth and the money bags Bavarians, right?

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Just now, Spike said:

You mean that yellow team that got lucky with scouting and youth and the money bags Bavarians, right?

Got lucky xD

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One of the Milanese clubs will be. Maybe in a few years time when the Asian investment has properly kicked in, they may return to a level to which they can practically compete with Barca, Real, Atletico, Juve etc. 

Not sure about Napoli or Roma. They're in Juve's shadow at the moment and  can't really shake that off. Especially so when Juve are buying the best striker (Higuain) with ease. 

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4 minutes ago, Aaroncpfc said:

Got lucky xD

No matter how talented their scouting and coaching networks are; there will always remain far too many variables. You do not believe it is luckfor lack of a better word, that players like Hummels, Subotic, Sahin, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Baros, Perisic, Gotze, all developed and hit their stride around the same time period? 

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5 minutes ago, Stan said:

One of the Milanese clubs will be. Maybe in a few years time when the Asian investment has properly kicked in, they may return to a level to which they can practically compete with Barca, Real, Atletico, Juve etc. 

Not sure about Napoli or Roma. They're in Juve's shadow at the moment and  can't really shake that off. Especially so when Juve are buying the best striker (Higuain) with ease. 

I wouldn't call one the biggest transfer fees of all time 'with ease'! xD

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1 minute ago, Spike said:

I wouldn't call one the biggest transfer fees of all time 'with ease'! xD

they only chased him for one summer didn't they? Most transfer sagas take ages these days.

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Just now, Stan said:

they only chased him for one summer didn't they? Most transfer sagas take ages these days.

What was Napoli to do? Wait another year and potentially receive less money or bite that offer? Ultimately Napoli played hard ball and Juve stepped up to the plate and matched it.

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Just now, Spike said:

No matter how talented their scouting and coaching networks are; there will always remain far too many variables. You do not believe it is luckfor lack of a better word, that players like Hummels, Subotic, Sahin, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Baros, Perisic, Gotze, all developed and hit their stride around the same time period? 

I'm sorry but to say Dortmund have got lucky when they have been a great European side for over half a decade now is one of the shittest things I have read on this forum and that's coming from somebody who was reminded this morning that I once said i'd chop three inches off my penis if Victor Moses never played for England.

You don't get lucky through creating an entire squad. Then replacing those squad members when they leave for players that can play at the same standard.  Borussia Dortmund have shown that it is possible to establish yourselves and remain an inspiration for many European sides.

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23 minutes ago, Aaroncpfc said:

I'm sorry but to say Dortmund have got lucky when they have been a great European side for over half a decade now is one of the shittest things I have read on this forum and that's coming from somebody who was reminded this morning that I once said i'd chop three inches off my penis if Victor Moses never played for England.

You don't get lucky through creating an entire squad. Then replacing those squad members when they leave for players that can play at the same standard.  Borussia Dortmund have shown that it is possible to establish yourselves and remain an inspiration for many European sides.

This iteration of BVB are nothing close to what they were when they were thumping the Bundesliga. Of course than is an abstraction similar to luck involved; there was no way that the BVB scouts knew that all their unknown youngsters from weaker league would develop into elite talents that would mesh perfectly into Klopp's philosophy. It wasn't some 'just as planned' chess game that was planned out in advance. BVB took risks on youth and unknown prospects and that managed to create a special team for about three years. They did an amazing job but to suggest that they knew 100% what they were doing is ultimately naive in the face of uncertainty of the future. 

And don't patronise me with that 'I'm sorry' bullshit; just say what you will, I won't take offence to it.

Edited by Spike

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They absolutely CAN. Will they though is another question.

I think Inter is likely to come back and make some noise. From all reports, the owners are ready to spend, and spend big, so that leads me to believe that Inter will rejoin the rest at the top of the table.

Roma is doing well, but are clearly a step behind Juve. The amount of time that Roma basks in realm in good, not great, is shocking. They are a solid squad, but they have been for about 15 years. They are the Arsenal's of Italy.

Italy's economy hasn't helped either. Owners were forced out and so you don't see the investment being made like you used to. Teams like Fiorentina, Inter, AC, Juve, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, and Torino, should all be fighting for European spots.

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1 hour ago, Spike said:

No matter how talented their scouting and coaching networks are; there will always remain far too many variables. You do not believe it is luckfor lack of a better word, that players like Hummels, Subotic, Sahin, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Baros, Perisic, Gotze, all developed and hit their stride around the same time period? 

Does that mean Barcelona were lucky to win the treble (and many more) as most of their young talents peaked at the same time? And should we also call spain lucky because they won 2 euros and a WC under these same players

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6 minutes ago, Asura said:

Does that mean Barcelona were lucky to win the treble (and many more) as most of their young talents peaked at the same time? And should we also call spain lucky because they won 2 euros and a WC under these same players

To a degree; yes (read: I didn't say pure luck at any point). You can't dispute there is a certain X factor that a bunch of men around the same age reach elite levels of football. The generations come and go, if it weren't the case Brazil would win every WC. Barcelona have always developed amazing talent but to have Fabregas, Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Messi, Pedro, Pique, Alba, Busquets, and a few others emerge from la masia at the same time is nothing short of a miracle. That is a once in a lifetime event and to dismiss it as nothing short of an amazing phenomenon dismisses the natural ability of these players.

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3 minutes ago, Spike said:

To a degree; yes (read: I didn't say pure luck at any point). You can't dispute there is a certain X factor that a bunch of men around the same age reach elite levels of football. The generations come and go, if it weren't the case Brazil would win every WC. Barcelona have always developed amazing talent but to have Fabregas, Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Messi, Pedro, Pique, Alba, Busquets, and a few others emerge from la masia at the same time is nothing short of a miracle.

By that definition every team/club that dominates a period of time needs some luck with what they do, its not specific to any particular team that was successful so I think its not right to call BVB lucky. Man Utd were lucky to have a golden generation and a great manager, Arsenal were lucky to have a great defensive line pre wenger era and a great attacking power added by Wenger in late 90s and early 2000s, and similar with many successful clus.

I mean, like you said,  it definitely takes so many things to click and a bit of luck for any team and BVB is no exception so I felt singling out BVB as lucky to be harsh. 

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1 minute ago, Asura said:

By that definition every team/club that dominates a period of time needs some luck with what they do, its not specific to any particular team that was successful so I think its not right to call BVB lucky. Man Utd were lucky to have a golden generation and a great manager, Arsenal were lucky to have a great defensive line pre wenger era and a great attacking power added by Wenger in late 90s and early 2000s, and similar with many successful clus.

I mean, like you said,  it definitely takes so many things to click and a bit of luck for any team and BVB is no exception so I felt singling out BVB as lucky to be harsh. 

There is a huge difference between having a group of stars come up through your academy all at once, and a club going out and buying up all the talent.

BvB had a period where they have a perfect combination of skill, talent, drive, coaching, and if you look at those players now, they absolute stars.

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Just now, Asura said:

By that definition every team/club that dominates a period of time needs some luck with what they do, its not specific to any particular team that was successful so I think its not right to call BVB lucky. Man Utd were lucky to have a golden generation and a great manager, Arsenal were lucky to have a great defensive line pre wenger era and a great attacking power added by Wenger in late 90s and early 2000s, and similar with many successful clus.

I mean, like you said,  it definitely takes so many things to click and a bit of luck for any team and BVB is no exception so I felt singling out BVB as lucky to be harsh. 

They were lucky. They weren't buying big names, they didn't have the funds to buy ready-made players, it isn't an insult nor is it harsh, it's just the events that took place. Everything clicked for BVB and they dominated for a couple of years, there isn't anything negative about that.  I think it's unrealistic to expect the same thing to constantly happen at any club, BVB's amazing team was a product of the times and isn't something they should expect to happen just out of thin air. Teams like Real Madrid and Juventus don't rely on luck because they buy players that are elite or are on the verge of it. When was the last time Real pulled someone like Lewandowski out of Poland and turned him into a star?

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2 minutes ago, Spike said:

They were lucky. They weren't buying big names, they didn't have the funds to buy ready-made players, it isn't an insult nor is it harsh, it's just the events that took place. Everything clicked for BVB and they dominated for a couple of years, there isn't anything negative about that.  I think it's unrealistic to expect the same thing to constantly happen at any club, BVB's amazing team was a product of the times and isn't something they should expect to happen just out of thin air. Teams like Real Madrid and Juventus don't rely on luck because they buy players that are elite or are on the verge of it. When was the last time Real pulled someone like Lewandowski out of Poland and turned him into a star?

I think this definition of "luck" is subjective because not always the big signings are good. Look at Torres to Chelsea, Carroll to Liverpool, James to Real Madrid, Gomes to barcelona, DiMaria to Man Utd and to some extent Ozil to Arsenal and Pogba to Man Utd. Arent these clubs unlucky with these big money buys? Because clearly it may not be a scouting error as they are all proven superstars somewhere else.  Real Madrid or Barcelona might go ahead and buy someone like Hazard and they could be "unlucky" and Hazard doesnt perform due to various reasons and prove to be a waste of money.

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Just now, Asura said:

I think this definition of "luck" is subjective because not always the big signings are good. Look at Torres to Chelsea, Carroll to Liverpool, James to Real Madrid, Gomes to barcelona, DiMaria to Man Utd and to some extent Ozil to Arsenal and Pogba to Man Utd. Arent these clubs unlucky with these big money buys? Because clearly it may not be a scouting error as they are all proven superstars somewhere else.  Real Madrid or Barcelona might go ahead and buy someone like Hazard and they could be "unlucky" and Hazard doesnt perform due to various reasons and prove to be a waste of money.

But I think to @Spike point - Teams like Real Madrid, can just buy as many players as they wish (Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, ) and if they fail...so what? Just buy more more more

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And some teams don't have that luxury, like BvB, who have a lot of money, but can't outbid Bayern, or really even come that close.

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Just now, ATL said:

But I think to @Spike point - Teams like Real Madrid, can just buy as many players as they wish (Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, ) and if they fail...so what? Just buy more more more

I agree what he is saying to but all Im saying is the definition of luck is subjective and i didnt like how he called BVB lucky in the first post but his explanation later on makes sense to an extent. All Im saying is every team needs a little bit of luck for everything to fall in place unless you are real madrid where you need it a lot win 11th champions league :ph34r:

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The rest of Italy need to get things right off the pitch before they can think of compete alongside Juventus in the European elite. Too much mismanagement and instability to match teams from Germany and Spain at the moment.

The return to having four Italian teams in the Champions League will help attract a higher caliber of player and help keep good players in Italy.

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The rumoured move of Simeone to Inter would go a long way in bringing Italian football back to where it belongs.

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9 minutes ago, ...Dan said:

The rumoured move of Simeone to Inter would go a long way in bringing Italian football back to where it belongs.

There are also rumors of us buying everyone associated with Monaco atm.

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I do Hope the two chinese in Power Will do Inter and Milan big.Inter Just cant jeep going in wasting money every year and get 7th. Thats so horrible.

AC Milan is going to bè better next year i think if they keep Montella as coach. 

I font see Roma doing good an other season as I have heard they keep money to ultimate the stadium.

Napoli Will bè fine I Guess but i Wish they Can step down a bit in the ranking. 

Lazio i dont know about them. Thats prolly the worst serie A in years thanks to last 3 teams.

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I don't know about the rest of the Italian teams but I do know that my club will come back to the elitle before 2020. Chinese are willing to invest real money and do whatever it takes to bring Inter back to the Top. I don't think they will spend money in vain anymore, from this summer everything changes. This time they have a plan and of course they still have lots of funds available :D

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Whenever I see a question like this I think of the Dutch League....

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