Lionel Messi

[SirBalon]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Is it Messi's fault that Barcelona approached the game the same way they approached the first leg - play pretty conservatively, hope Messi can pull pieces of magic for Barca going forward? It worked in Barca with quite a bit of luck, had we scored an away goal the complexion of the game would have been completely different for us. But it was not the greatest strategy when everyone in the world knew how we would play at Anfield and knowing what the Anfield atmosphere would be like... especially if we got the early goal that we did get.

I agree with @José… all Barca needed was a goal. That probably would have put it beyond our reach despite the performance and the atmosphere and all that. And in the first half they had plenty of chances to get it - just like over 2 halfs of football in Barca we also had plenty of chances. And should Barca have scored? Yes, absolutely. But it's not like Messi didn't try. Literally all of Barca's goal threat involved Messi in some shape over both legs.  And in the 8 chances Barca had in the second leg, Messi was either creating the chance or the one taking the shot. He forced saves from Allison.

Was he anywhere near as good as he is at his best? No. But how many times can that have been said of Ronaldo over the past few years as well? As I've said before, Barca have plenty to blame. And Messi, as part of the losing team, shares some of that blame too. But he's also their best ever player, the current top scorer in the CL, and the person who gave them the best chance of going through against us. And after that second leg, I don't think many of the Barca players, other than Vidal, can be too proud of themselves.

And Valverde's the one who sets up the side. He chose to take the "safe" approach, just like he did the year before... when going aggressive early on would definitely have been a better option to truly make it impossible for us to progress. He didn't learn from the loss against Roma. His tactics seem fine for La Liga, they're not often going up against sides that are going to be able to attempt to go toe to toe with them in most games of a premier league season. But up against sides that are more capable of doing that, and particularly playing with the desire to lift club football's most prestigious trophy, those tactics just aren't going to cut it in modern football.

I don't think it's coincidental that the other teams in the semi-final have a wholly different approach to Barcelona. All three of them have taken on a fearless approach in playing positive football, despite not always being favourites. Ajax vs the two giants they've slain and Tottenham vs City, in particular, demonstrate that as well as us against Barca it's not just the tactics (which for all of the sides, I think have been sound tactically) it's also getting 11 people on the pitch to be one cohesive unit. Right now Barca are not that cohesive unit. For the last 3 years in the CL, Real Madrid did have that - you don't have 3 successful CL runs without the whole team buying into the belief they could win the most prestigious club cup competition three times in a row. Against all of the best sides in Europe for three years in a row.

If Barca want the CL, they need a rebuild so they've got a team that's using Messi in a way that's different to just 11 great individuals relying on an outstanding player to continually bail them out all the time.

Also what the fuck was the point in spending all that money on Coutinho, who was always far better for us in a midfield 3 that in the front 3... and then putting him out wide where he's been proven to be less effective. Don't you want that player you spent all that money on? Why even buy him if you're not going to use him correctly and get him in that form that he was in that made you want to buy him?

Brilliant post!

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Brilliant post!

Thought you'd like it. It shits on Valverde and it's long as fuck 

[SirBalon]

50 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Thought you'd like it. It shits on Valverde and it's long as fuck 

Definitely needed to be long to have the content to explain it. 

I've personally got nothing against Valverde as he's always conducted have himself admirably ajd is a gentleman. But that's not the main part of his job even if it is something important from my perspective as I like ethical people. He is too conservative and in both games he gave Liverpool way too much respect (not that Liverpool don't deserve it)... The reason being is that the squad of players he has isn't set-up for a speculative approach and he's had to work extremely hard in his tactical arrangement to get those players to do that. All of this points to the fact you shouldn't do that with players of this ilk and if you're gonna lose (maybe you do, maybe you don't), you must do it to what the fans expect historically. He wouldn't have obtained the criticism he is getting right now and his position wouldn't be questioned as it is being questioned now.

Klopp went out and didn't change a single thing in the way he's played against everyone he's faced this season. He went up against Barça in two games and there was no difference to the game plan like when he went up against Huddersfield. Anything else and he would be being a traitor to himself, his players and offering a whiff of panic. Of course small details are touched upon for each game and the size of the opponent, but not a total contrasting directive. That's the sin!

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, José said:

Ronaldo Nazario says Lionel Messi is never blamed when Barcelona lose

The other day I heard that when they lose, it's because of Valverde, Coutinho... but not Messi.

"And when they win, Barcelona win because of Messi. It's a tremendous lack of respect to all the players and the coaching staff."

Givemesports.com

 

"Barcelona have a great team, and they have the best player in the world in Messi."

Unlucky mate. 

[MUFC]

[Guest]

This thread is basically a Ronaldo - Messi fanboy discussion. It's boring as shit. I don't mind debating over the 2 best of our generation but fuck me stop fanboying over one or the other. That isn't discussion, that's fucking childish.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, José said:

I usually stay away from threads that have the potential to make it boring as shit for me... like all those F1 threads.... you should try it sometimes mate. 

I think a better idea would be for you to stop spamming threads with dross nobody wants to read. Would do everyone a favour.

Or just log out of your computer and never go back on. That would be great.

[Carnivore Chris]

On 08/05/2019 at 19:22, Dr. Gonzo said:

Is it Messi's fault that Barcelona approached the game the same way they approached the first leg - play pretty conservatively, hope Messi can pull pieces of magic for Barca going forward? It worked in Barca with quite a bit of luck, had we scored an away goal the complexion of the game would have been completely different for us. But it was not the greatest strategy when everyone in the world knew how we would play at Anfield and knowing what the Anfield atmosphere would be like... especially if we got the early goal that we did get.

I agree with @José… all Barca needed was a goal. That probably would have put it beyond our reach despite the performance and the atmosphere and all that. And in the first half they had plenty of chances to get it - just like over 2 halfs of football in Barca we also had plenty of chances. And should Barca have scored? Yes, absolutely. But it's not like Messi didn't try. Literally all of Barca's goal threat involved Messi in some shape over both legs.  And in the 8 chances Barca had in the second leg, Messi was either creating the chance or the one taking the shot. He forced saves from Allison.

Was he anywhere near as good as he is at his best? No. But how many times can that have been said of Ronaldo over the past few years as well? As I've said before, Barca have plenty to blame. And Messi, as part of the losing team, shares some of that blame too. But he's also their best ever player, the current top scorer in the CL, and the person who gave them the best chance of going through against us. And after that second leg, I don't think many of the Barca players, other than Vidal, can be too proud of themselves.

And Valverde's the one who sets up the side. He chose to take the "safe" approach, just like he did the year before... when going aggressive early on would definitely have been a better option to truly make it impossible for us to progress. He didn't learn from the loss against Roma. His tactics seem fine for La Liga, they're not often going up against sides that are going to be able to attempt to go toe to toe with them in most games of a premier league season. But up against sides that are more capable of doing that, and particularly playing with the desire to lift club football's most prestigious trophy, those tactics just aren't going to cut it in modern football.

I don't think it's coincidental that the other teams in the semi-final have a wholly different approach to Barcelona. All three of them have taken on a fearless approach in playing positive football, despite not always being favourites. Ajax vs the two giants they've slain and Tottenham vs City, in particular, demonstrate that as well as us against Barca it's not just the tactics (which for all of the sides, I think have been sound tactically) it's also getting 11 people on the pitch to be one cohesive unit. Right now Barca are not that cohesive unit. For the last 3 years in the CL, Real Madrid did have that - you don't have 3 successful CL runs without the whole team buying into the belief they could win the most prestigious club cup competition three times in a row. Against all of the best sides in Europe for three years in a row.

If Barca want the CL, they need a rebuild so they've got a team that's using Messi in a way that's different to just 11 great individuals relying on an outstanding player to continually bail them out all the time.

Also what the fuck was the point in spending all that money on Coutinho, who was always far better for us in a midfield 3 that in the front 3... and then putting him out wide where he's been proven to be less effective. Don't you want that player you spent all that money on? Why even buy him if you're not going to use him correctly and get him in that form that he was in that made you want to buy him?

Personally I wouldn't say it had anything to do with the difference between the Premier League and La Liga as Valverde's record vs English clubs in Europe for Barcelona is 8 games, 6 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss. His problem is that he bottles these big European away encounters and doesn't seem to have it in him to win them. His team were undefeated in the Champions league this season before the other night so he does get a lot right in general, even if his style can be very conservative and not what you really want to see from a Barcelona side(just being honest), although it's these intense big game away ties in the competition where he just seems to get everything wrong. The players aren't fully comfortable playing in this manner.

He's just not made for these big occasions it seems and while I wouldn't say the players aren't entirely faultless, I'd personally place the majority of the blame for this loss on him more than anything else. It's a fantastic side of talented lads(a good mix of both young and more experienced players) who have a very good understanding of each other(in the right system) and have all won and done it all before. Messi, Pique, Alba, Busquets and Ter Stegen have had as good a season as ever this year and the likes of Arthur have shown that they look to have a big future at the club. There is too much of an over reliance on Messi though when it comes to the attacking side of the game as Suarez only plays well in 1 every 7 games or so these days. It would be helpful if Dembele could stay injury free as he's a class player and a man like him is seriously lacking in that side. Coutinho's best football for the club was when playing in midfield in a more 4-3-3 formation(with Dembele also in the side) earlier in the season, but then he suffered an injury, came back, played a different role and has looked utterly dreadful since. Reminds me of Cesc Fabregas and Mesut Ozil. Highly talented footballer with all the ability in the world, but he's mentally weak and lazy off the ball.

In terms of the keepers, defenders and midfielders(especially with De Jong in for next season), I think the options are strong, although there needs to be work done in attack. Yes the defence did fall apart but it was more about the system and tactical approach rather than personnel for me as I've watched these players all season and while I've seen fragilities in the side(which were all finally exposed in that 2nd leg), it's a solid group of players and there is depth in the squad, although it's all about the approach in these type of games for me. As far as I'm concerned, Barcelona had as good a chance as ever of winning the Champions league this season and with these players you have to make most of these opportunities while you can. Valverde probably isn't the man to achieve that though unfortunately.

It's difficult to be too critical when he's won the league again this year and possibly the copa, although when you pretty much have 1 foot in a Champins league final, you just can't fuck it up, whoever it is against.

Either way, fuck football. I'm finished with it now until September.

[Cicero]

De Jong is going to improve your midfield massively. 

Valverde is essentially playing a counter attacking system with only Messi and Suarez as the attackers. He's focusing far too much on a defensive midfield structure vs what Barca are all about. Just cowardly football if you ask me. Should sack him and appoint Xavi if he's ready. 

[Carnivore Chris]

17 minutes ago, Cicero said:

De Jong is going to improve your midfield massively. 

Valverde is essentially playing a counter attacking system with only Messi and Suarez as the attackers. He's focusing far too much on a defensive midfield structure vs what Barca are all about. Just cowardly football if you ask me. Should sack him and appoint Xavi if he's ready. 

I don't think Xavi would be quite ready yet mate but he's certainly an interesting option for the near future as he has the same mentality and ideas as Pep had. It's always a risk as he's yet to prove anything as a manager, but one worth taking as it has worked before.

To be honest, I can;t take anything away from Liverpool the other night either and it wasn't just about Barcelona getting it wrong in this case, but coming up against a ridiculously good side who never seem to die. I wouldn't be against them winning it from here as they deserve to win something this season. Klopp is also a likeable manager so I also wouldn't be against seeing him finally win a final in a European competition.

[JoshBRFC+]

Who's hacked @José account?! Did you actually just post that?

[MUFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48607573

[SirBalon]

Stopped reading at "Messi will never win a World Cup single handedly like Maradona". They could've written that bit earlier so as I didn't waste my time. These days anyone is allowed to be a journalist.

[MUFC]

5 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Stopped reading at "Messi will never win a World Cup single handedly like Maradona". They could've written that bit earlier so as I didn't waste my time. These days anyone is allowed to be a journalist.

Did this line hurt you?

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Did this line hurt you?

Indeed... It hurt the ring entrance to my anus, making it dilate and caca subsequently coming out. 

I only entertain serious writers or people with opinions that have a foundation for reality, not beliefs.

[MUFC]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Indeed... It hurt the ring entrance to my anus, making it dilate and caca subsequently coming out. 

I only entertain serious writers or people with opinions that have a foundation for reality, not beliefs.

Could be nappy rash 

[SirBalon]

9 minutes ago, MUFC said:

Could be nappy rash 

Could be, although I do put plenty of sudocream on my ring tbh. I've been told I have a talented anus actually. It detects stupidity or innocence from a mile off leaving me in an uncomfortable situation of poohing like a bull that's had laxatives mixed in with his daily dose of green grass.

 

I read plenty of Mazur's pieces all over the place (some prestigious places, not like the BBC) and he does tend to use cliches quite lot. I've always thought one is better off marking a cliché as such so as it doesn't run the risk of being part of your opinion but an automatism that you include by announcing it as such and then working your ppv around it.

[MUFC]

16 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Could be, although I do put plenty of sudocream on my ring tbh. I've been told I have a talented anus actually. It detects stupidity or innocence from a mile off leaving me in an uncomfortable situation of poohing like a bull that's had laxatives mixed in with his daily dose of green grass.

 

I read plenty of Mazur's pieces all over the place (some prestigious places, not like the BBC) and he does tend to use cliches quite lot. I've always thought one is better off marking a cliché as such so as it doesn't run the risk of being part of your opinion but an automatism that you include by announcing it as such and then working your ppv around it.

You're a very lucky man.

[Carnivore Chris]

14 hours ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

2-6 month ban for Messi is expected to be announced Tuesday with the possibility of Argentina losing the Copa america with colombia being the only host. Just retire lionel just retire and let the Argentina people get over your failures and disappointments. Nunca seras querido como Maradona en Argentina, nunca.

Your obsession over Messi is actually unhealthy in my opinion mate.

It's the equivalent of what strange, wacko, obsessive woman are like when they are in love with a celebrity(in this case Ronaldo) and they would say or do anything to defend their hero. I haven't heard you mention his rape case yet either. If that was Messi, jesus, you wouldn't hear the end of it.

 

[Carnivore Chris]

El Cristiano más íntimo: "Admiro mucho lo que ha hecho Messi y a él le dio pena que me fuera"

FÚTBOL El crack portugués ha hablado en una entrevista a TVI sobre Leo: "Tengo un excelente trato con él"

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• 22/08/2019 20:36 CEST

 

El Cristiano más intimo: "Admiro mucho lo que ha hecho Messi y a él le dio pena que me fuera"

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Cristiano Ronaldo volvió a hablar de su rivalidad con Leo Messi. El crack portugués lo ha hecho en una entrevista en la TVI donde ha contando la relación que ha mantenido con el astro argentino.

Los dos mejores jugadores del mundo tienen cinco Balones de Oro cada uno y han coincidido en el tiempo y en el espacio, cuando estuvo en el Real Madrid, algo que les ha permitido mejorar como reconoce el futbolista portugués. "No tengo dudas de que Messi me ha convertido en un mejor jugador y viceversa", dijo a TV1.

El jugador luso ha confirmado que mantienen un excelente trato profesional y cómo ha afectado su rivalidad sobre el terreno de juego en su crecimiento con el paso de los años. "Admiro mucho lo que ha hecho Messi. Él ya dijo públicamente cuando me fui de la Liga española que le "dio pena", porque a él le gustaba esa rivalidad. Messi ya había admitido sobre las últimas tres Champions que habíamos ganado que se sentía un poco molesto. Es normal, al igual que a mí también me habría gustado ganar títulos que él ganó con el Barcelona"

Una rivalidad sana

"Es una buena rivalidad que existe en el fútbol, pero no es única. Michael Jordan las tenía en el baloncesto, Ayrton Senna y Prost en la Formula 1... Lo que todos tenían en común es que eran rivalidades saludables. Tengo una excelente relación profesional con Messi porque hemos estado compartiendo los mismos momentos durante 15 años",

Cristiano también matizó que Messi es tan competitivo y ambicioso como él, incluso en los trofeos individuales. "Cuando me ve ganar trofeos debe dolerle, y lo mismo para mí cuando lo hace él. Admiro la carrera que ha tenido", zanjó Cristiano.

Ronaldo, incluso se atrevió a decir que compartiría mesa y mantel con Messi: "Nunca hemos cenado juntos, pero no veo por qué no podemos hacerlo en un futuro. Él es argentino, mi novia también, por eso no veo ningún problema", concluyó.

 

 

@SirBalon, @Teso dos Bichos

[Cicero]

Rot in hell?

The hell did Guardiola do to you? 

[Machado]

Yea the interview was a great watch. He's one the most down to earth individuals in footbal for sure. Doesn't take anything for granted and keeps working as hard as ever. 

In his holidays he trained with Francis Obikwelu - a portuguese 100m track runner and former olympic medalist. Which other footballers would bother to do this?

He's said in the interview that he's still obsessed with success, but doesn't lose sleep over a defeat in a match anymore. Not bothered about his future too. He's enjoying the moment and not thinking about when he's going to retire. Could be next season or he could play into his 40's, but it's not a big deal to him and he'll stop when it feels right.

He also said that he feels by far the most happy playing for the national team. He believes this could be the most talented generation in the history of Portuguese football.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

Rot in hell?

The hell did Guardiola do to you? 

I'm also intrigued...

[SirBalon]

 

[Carnivore Chris]

Picked up his third Golden boot in a row last night and 6th of his career.

Something that stood out last season was his finishing. He's always been a great finisher of course, but there was something about his finishing last season which stood out more than ever.

 

Weird how people questioned his best award this year by the way as he had a fantastic last season. The only player I've seen during my lifetime to have a better individual season in fact is Messi himself!