Referees/VAR in the Premier League

[LFCMadLad]

Just get rid of it altogether. Its embarrassing. 

[Liverboy]

Over the weekend we have all witnessed the rise of the machine and need to remember that technology is as smart as it is dumb. A computer can determine if a ball has touched a players arm but it cannot tell whether it was deliberate or not. And we have simply and stupidly given power to the machine. But even worst than that was the closing of the Brighton v Man City game. I was surprised that Graham Potter did not march his team off the pitch. The game ended because the final whistle was blown but through VAR the end of the game was overturned because of an event during the game. It may have been in the closing seconds but this is no different to an event happening in the 30th minute. When the referee blows the final whistle the game has ended. This too has now been changed because a machine (VAR) can be used to over rule the ending of a game. Additionally, if the game was to be restarted, it should only have been after discussion with both managers as if a game was being stopped for bad weather and scheduled to be replayed/restarted. 

[Smiley Culture]

The handball thing isn’t the thing of computers, it’s the thing of dickhead suits in an Ivory Tower somewhere. VAR is simple enforcing said laws, it’s the laws that’s the problem. 

[DeadLinesman]

How is the fault of a computer if a referee gives a penalty in accordance with the rules and laws of the game? What an utterly bizarre take.

[DeadLinesman]

17 hours ago, Liverboy said:

Over the weekend we have all witnessed the rise of the machine and need to remember that technology is as smart as it is dumb. A computer can determine if a ball has touched a players arm but it cannot tell whether it was deliberate or not. And we have simply and stupidly given power to the machine. But even worst than that was the closing of the Brighton v Man City game. I was surprised that Graham Potter did not march his team off the pitch. The game ended because the final whistle was blown but through VAR the end of the game was overturned because of an event during the game. It may have been in the closing seconds but this is no different to an event happening in the 30th minute. When the referee blows the final whistle the game has ended. This too has now been changed because a machine (VAR) can be used to over rule the ending of a game. Additionally, if the game was to be restarted, it should only have been after discussion with both managers as if a game was being stopped for bad weather and scheduled to be replayed/restarted. 

IFAB Law 2 states: "If at the end of the half, the referee leaves the field of play to go to the referee review area (RRA) or to instruct the players to return to the field of play, this does not prevent a decision being changed for an incident which occurred before the end of the half."

IFAB Law 7.4 - On duration of match

If a penalty kick has to be taken or retaken, the half is extended until the penalty kick is completed.
 

Hope this helps. Why on earth you think a match official would need to discuss how to restart a game with the managers is beyond me. Maybe referees know the rules and the fans don’t. There’s always that......

[Storts]

21 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

How is the fault of a computer if a referee gives a penalty in accordance with the rules and laws of the game? What an utterly bizarre take.

That law is only in place because of VAR let’s be honest. It’s not enforceable otherwise 

[DeadLinesman]

32 minutes ago, Storts said:

That law is only in place because of VAR let’s be honest. It’s not enforceable otherwise 

But it’s still not the fault of VAR, which is literally a camera capturing the action. The problem is the human interpreting the rules and making the rules. In no other sport is it moaned about as much ranging from Tennis, to Rugby League and cricket. We just love a good fucking moan to be fair. 

[Storts]

16 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

But it’s still not the fault of VAR, which is literally a camera capturing the action. The problem is the human interpreting the rules and making the rules. In no other sport is it moaned about as much ranging from Tennis, to Rugby League and cricket. We just love a good fucking moan to be fair. 

It is - it’s the fault of having a system in place that is to the detriment of the game. Trying to change things unnecessarily. 

[LFCMadLad]

I think everyone can agree that football was better before VAR. 

[DeadLinesman]

1 minute ago, Storts said:

It is - it’s the fault of having a system in place that is to the detriment of the game. Trying to change things unnecessarily. 

It’s 100% fault of the rules. Again, no other sport has this many issues. 

[LFCMadLad]

47 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

It’s 100% fault of the rules. Again, no other sport has this many issues. 

Not many other sports using VAR have 22 people all over each other tbf.

[DeadLinesman]

Yeah. League and Union have 26 and 30 respectively..........

[LFCMadLad]

4 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Yeah. League and Union have 26 and 30 respectively..........

So one other sport then 

[Storts]

Absolutely shocked you’re so in favour of this @DeadLinesman

Edited September 28, 2020 by Storts

[DeadLinesman]

14 minutes ago, Storts said:

Absolutely shocked you’re so in favour of this @DeadLinesman

And you’re not 

[RandoEFC+]

How can anyone not be in favour of the referees having access to extra replays to help them make the right decisions?

Even the referees, who I'm never shy about pointing the finger out due to the complete lack of accountability for game-changing mistakes that they make, can't be blamed for this situation with handballs.

They started by saying that clear and obvious mistakes would be reviewed. They quietly allowed clear and obvious as a phrase to slip out of our vocabulary, now they're obsessed with reviewing every goal or goalmouth incident to interfere with the game. These decisions have all been made by humans.

The value of having a video assistant referee is objectively good. Nobody can argue with that, so don't try. It is an absolute fact that having more opportunities to see an incident from more angles gives you a better chance of making the right decision. If the handball rule is open to interpretation, you have a better chance of making the right and fair call by watching a slow motion replay than you do by relying on what the referee and linesman could see in real time. Too bad this absolute and undeniable benefit to fair officiating of football matches has coincided with idiots in board rooms somewhere bringing in absolutely farcical initiatives to try and take advantage of the new technology, without giving it a season or two to see how VAR works in its most basic form.

Literally all of the problems are created by humans and how they're using the technology. Claiming that VAR should be scrapped and not used at all cannot be backed up by any feasible argument. What needs to change is the idiots using it, the human people, not some mysterious AI that doesn't exist.

[DeadLinesman]

@Storts and @LFCMadLad are just angry they didn’t shithouse their way to an 12 and 8 points respectively. United rightly getting those 17 points that we would have been robbed of.

 

[LFCMadLad]

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

How can anyone not be in favour of the referees having access to extra replays to help them make the right decisions?

Even the referees, who I'm never shy about pointing the finger out due to the complete lack of accountability for game-changing mistakes that they make, can't be blamed for this situation with handballs.

They started by saying that clear and obvious mistakes would be reviewed. They quietly allowed clear and obvious as a phrase to slip out of our vocabulary, now they're obsessed with reviewing every goal or goalmouth incident to interfere with the game. These decisions have all been made by humans.

The value of having a video assistant referee is objectively good. Nobody can argue with that, so don't try. It is an absolute fact that having more opportunities to see an incident from more angles gives you a better chance of making the right decision. If the handball rule is open to interpretation, you have a better chance of making the right and fair call by watching a slow motion replay than you do by relying on what the referee and linesman could see in real time. Too bad this absolute and undeniable benefit to fair officiating of football matches has coincided with idiots in board rooms somewhere bringing in absolutely farcical initiatives to try and take advantage of the new technology, without giving it a season or two to see how VAR works in its most basic form.

Literally all of the problems are created by humans and how they're using the technology. Claiming that VAR should be scrapped and not used at all cannot be backed up by any feasible argument. What needs to change is the idiots using it, the human people, not some mysterious AI that doesn't exist.

It can be backed up relatively simply. 

Football as a spectacle was much better without all this shite.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I’m against VAR purely because I don’t think the officials will ever be good enough for it not to be shit. And the way they’ve changed the handball rule for VAR is a complete abomination.

Test it out in international football. Or make fucking Qatar and/or MLS league test it out and work the kinks out before bringing it over to the bigger domestic leagues.

[Eco]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I’m against VAR purely because I don’t think the officials will ever be good enough for it not to be shit. And the way they’ve changed the handball rule for VAR is a complete abomination.

Test it out in international football. Or make fucking Qatar and/or MLS league test it out and work the kinks out before bringing it over to the bigger domestic leagues.

Hate to be a throne in your noodle, but we don't have a VAR problem in the MLS like you do in England. the Handball rule isn't shit either, so keep your shitty rules to yourself. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

Hate to be a throne in your noodle, but we don't have a VAR problem in the MLS like you do in England. the Handball rule isn't shit either, so keep your shitty rules to yourself. 

Pretty sure the last time I watched an MLS match I saw some pretty bad officiating and a weird VAR moment tbh.

Not gonna lie though it’s been a long long time since I watched an MLS match.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Pretty sure the last time I watched an MLS match I saw some pretty bad officiating and a weird VAR moment tbh.

 Not gonna lie though it’s been a long long time since I watched an MLS match.

Sure, the officiating blows massive donkey dick in the MLS, but VAR actually does what it's supposed to here without being a nuisance. 

[Guest]

Apparently there have been discussions of a  tolerance with offside. One thing I was thinking is where they use the lines to determine the offside. If they marked out the tolerance with those lines and said that of you go past that you are definitely offside that may clear up the confusion. Although I still think a lot of the problems are fans and pundits not getting it and not excepting that of you are offside you are offside I do think it would help. Largely because by having a tolerance you are giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

On 28/09/2020 at 18:07, Eco said:

Hate to be a throne in your noodle, but we don't have a VAR problem in the MLS like you do in England. the Handball rule isn't shit either, so keep your shitty rules to yourself. 

Fans are much more passionate in England. Which is good but it does mean they arent always looking at things logically. With a few exceptions most fans on here think they are hard done by by referees.  Another problem is pundits not understanding how it works.In ten years no one will care it will just be excepted 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

On 28/09/2020 at 12:58, RandoEFC said:

How can anyone not be in favour of the referees having access to extra replays to help them make the right decisions?

Even the referees, who I'm never shy about pointing the finger out due to the complete lack of accountability for game-changing mistakes that they make, can't be blamed for this situation with handballs.

They started by saying that clear and obvious mistakes would be reviewed. They quietly allowed clear and obvious as a phrase to slip out of our vocabulary, now they're obsessed with reviewing every goal or goalmouth incident to interfere with the game. These decisions have all been made by humans.

The value of having a video assistant referee is objectively good. Nobody can argue with that, so don't try. It is an absolute fact that having more opportunities to see an incident from more angles gives you a better chance of making the right decision. If the handball rule is open to interpretation, you have a better chance of making the right and fair call by watching a slow motion replay than you do by relying on what the referee and linesman could see in real time. Too bad this absolute and undeniable benefit to fair officiating of football matches has coincided with idiots in board rooms somewhere bringing in absolutely farcical initiatives to try and take advantage of the new technology, without giving it a season or two to see how VAR works in its most basic form.

Literally all of the problems are created by humans and how they're using the technology. Claiming that VAR should be scrapped and not used at all cannot be backed up by any feasible argument. What needs to change is the idiots using it, the human people, not some mysterious AI that doesn't exist.

Referees have meetings every week to discuss the decisions made and there performance.  They have a point based system which affects what games they referee how much they are paid etc. A lot is put into making sure the standard is improved. Just because not much is publicly said doesn't mean there arent things done.  You really dont have a clue how it works do you. Football referee numbers are actually dropping because they are fed up of the abuse. And rightly so. Fans expect every decision to be right its ridiculous. So your toxic attitude isnt doing anything. And I really would expect better from someone who teaches kids.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Guest