Manager Loyalty in Football

[Rucksackfranzose]

Managing football teams is a profession, why should managers be more loyal to their former employers than anybody else is to theirs? @SirBalon loyalty isn't a one way route, fans are asking for their managers to be sacked if results aren't like expected, how comes you expect managers to feel loyalty towards them under this condition?

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

A decent Scottish example would've been the possibility of Kenny Dalglish coaching Glasgow Rangers or Graeme Souness doing vice versa. Football had already become a business wile they were coaching and Dalglish himself won a league title with Blackburn with an early version of the Abramović effect.

I disagree, the Old Firm makes Chelsea v Tottenham look like a kindergarten rivalry. It just isn’t the same at all, yes thye are both rivalries but the degrees are different. 

[Berserker]

9 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Can you elaborate on your single sentence which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and lacks the weight of coherence.

Counter-attack with a bible-esque post!

[SirBalon]

9 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Managing football teams is a profession, why should managers be more loyal to their former employers than anybody else is to theirs? @SirBalon loyalty isn't a one way route, fans are asking for their managers to be sacked if results aren't like expected, how comes you expect managers to feel loyalty towards them under this condition?

Because football is about the fans and even in today's business orientated era the managers and players play to the tune of the fans. Boardrooms come and go and when Alfredo di Stéfano was made President of Honour for life at Real Madrid, Santiago Bernabéu had been dead for 30 years.

Now can you please elaborate on your first post to me and what the hell it meant?

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, Berserker said:

Counter-attack with a bible-esque post!

I'm waiting for the error to be an even bigger one so I can attack like a fucking wild puma on heat leaping out of a tree onto the neck of a prat that's decided to shit nearby.

[SirBalon]

15 minutes ago, Spike said:

I disagree, the Old Firm makes Chelsea v Tottenham look like a kindergarten rivalry. It just isn’t the same at all, yes thye are both rivalries but the degrees are different. 

Espanyol fans may hate Barcelona fans with all their might (the same isn't felt vice versa), but Pochettino holding those sentiments to the idea of taking one of the biggest jobs in football and refusing shows that club loyalty can be felt even by the lesser rivalries.

Could Joaquín later coach Sevilla? I very much doubt that!

But then again the Arsenal / Spurs rivalry is actually massive and George Graham travelled up the Green Lanes and up Bruce Grove to dirty his fingers.

[Rucksackfranzose]

It meant that your example was irrelevant, because it can't be refuted, since Real Madrid never offered Cruyff a managerial post,so you can't prove he hadn't take it out of loyalty towards Barcelona or their fans.

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

It meant that your example was irrelevant, because it can't be refuted, since Real Madrid never offered Cruyff a managerial post,so you can't prove he hadn't take it out of loyalty towards Barcelona or their fans.

Of course Real Madrid didn't offer Cruyff the job because they knew what the answer would be and I would even venture to say that Koeman wouldn't do it either and that isn't even on the same scale as Cruyff seeing as Johan is the terrestrial representation of God himself to the Cules.

And the bit about "loser"? 

[Spike]

9 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Espanyol fans may hate Barcelona fans with all their might (the same isn't felt vice versa), but Pochettino holding those sentiments to the idea of taking one of the biggest jobs in football and refusing shows that club loyalty can be felt even by the lesser rivalries.

Could Joaquín later coach Sevilla? I very much doubt that!

But then again the Arsenal / Spurs rivalry is actually massive and George Graham travelled up the Green Lanes and up Bruce Grove to dirty his fingers.

Nice post, but I don’t think you are mean to be arguing with me right now because I haven’t anything contrary to your points.

[Rucksackfranzose]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Of course Real Madrid didn't offer Cruyff the job because they knew what the answer would be and I would even venture to say that Koeman wouldn't do it either and that isn't even on the same scale as Cruyff seeing as Johan is the terrestrial representation of God himself to the Cules.

And the bit about "loser"? 

The only international silver ware he won as a manager was the cup winner's cup in 89, as we say in Germany once is never and who never wins is a loser.

[SirBalon]

7 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

The only international silver ware he won as a manager was the cup winner's cup in 89, as we say in Germany once is never and who never wins is a loser.

He won the Champions League / European Cup with Barcelona in 1992. Which Cruyff are you talking about?

[Rucksackfranzose]

34 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

He won the Champions League / European Cup with Barcelona in 1992. Which Cruyff are you talking about?

Forgot about he CL in 1992 and the cup winner's cup wth Ajax in 87.I hereby solemny retract the loser tag.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Forgot about he CL in 1992 and the cup winner's cup wth Ajax in 87.I hereby solemny retract the loser tag.

Wait.

This is a football forum. You can continue to argue even if you're wrong  

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Forgot about he CL in 1992 and the cup winner's cup wth Ajax in 87.I hereby solemny retract the loser tag.

As a coach...

 

[Rucksackfranzose]

13 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

As a coach...

 

Dutch and Spanish accolade is irrelevant, as I spoke of international silver ware, and the European Super Cup, calling this silver ware is even more ridiculous than Pele counting his goals in friendlies.

[Viva la FCB+]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

Wait.

This is a football forum. You can continue to argue even if you're wrong  

Thats a page right out of the peruvian handbook. 

[Panna King]

4 hours ago, Spike said:

Not everyone is Cryuff nor should anyone be held to someone else’s standard. People can do as they please, it isn’t conditional on the abstract and often arbitrary definitions of loyalty. Good for Cryuff, he stuck to his ideals and he wouldn’t be Cryuff if he didn’t do so, but he is dead so he is irrelevant to this discussion. Besides, as I said it is different standard every instance, he played for Ajax and Feyeenord, so loyalty is ‘t so black and white.

He played for Feyenoord to make a point, he desperately wanted to stay at Ajax but they told him he was too old and they were looking at younger players, Cruyff was so offended that he told the board that if they don't offer him another contract, he will join Feyenoord and make them champions, I believe the Ajax board laughed as they thought it was a crazy idea as Feyenoord had not won anything for 10 years..... but that is what happened and Feyenoord actually won the Double with Cruyff.

 

 

This a story in English about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/mar/25/johan-cruyff-ajax-feyenoord-holland-eredivisie

 

@SirBalon

[Spike]

4 hours ago, Panna King said:

He played for Feyenoord to make a point, he desperately wanted to stay at Ajax but they told him he was too old and they were looking at younger players, Cruyff was so offended that he told the board that if they don't offer him another contract, he will join Feyenoord and make them champions, I believe the Ajax board laughed as they thought it was a crazy idea as Feyenoord had not won anything for 10 years..... but that is what happened and Feyenoord actually won the Double with Cruyff.

 

 

 

This a story in English about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/these-football-times/2016/mar/25/johan-cruyff-ajax-feyenoord-holland-eredivisie

 

@SirBalon

Excellent anecdote. That only furthers my idea that loyalty is a two way street and depends on a myriad on influences.

[Spike]

4 hours ago, Viva la FCB said:

Thats a page right out of the peruvian handbook. 

In Brian's defence he does have high-functioning autism, if I am aware enough. That is why I always cut him some slack in arguments. 

[SirBalon]

9 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Dutch and Spanish accolade is irrelevant, as I spoke of international silver ware, and the European Super Cup, calling this silver ware is even more ridiculous than Pele counting his goals in friendlies.

Are you seriously suggesting Arsène Wenger is/was a hoax and possibly the most overrated coach in history?

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

Are you seriously suggesting Arsène Wenger is/was a hoax and possibly the most overrated coach in history?

Did I ever say anything suggesting so? For the record I rate Arsène Wenger as what he is and was. A person, who modernized English club football and had considerable national success.Let's keep it at me thinking it's causing nausea if a poster claiming to support one club is so consistently kissing an other club's as, as you're Barcelona's.

[True Blue]

Mourinho said he would never manage Tottenham out of his love for Chelsea. Well it didn't stop him moving to United and having a go at the club and fans, even tough every normal Chelsea fan doesn't consider United as a rival apart from the post Roman era. Also more regarded as a title rival than the rivals like city or local rivals etc. Mourinho is perhaps a bad example, never regarded him as a man of principles regarding loyalty.

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Did I ever say anything suggesting so? For the record I rate Arsène Wenger as what he is and was. A person, who modernized English club football and had considerable national success.Let's keep it at me thinking it's causing nausea if a poster claiming to support one club is so consistently kissing an other club's as, as you're Barcelona's.

No, you must stop being ridiculously silly (have no idea what to call you, your name is incomprehensible and too long)... You attacked Johan Cruyff because of some stupid notion you thought would entertain by stimulating that brain cell that's placed all of its iq on his nick regarding international club trophies. You were then found wanting (not surprising) by not knowing what he'd won at all and then decided to disregard domestic football.

But with you it didn't stop there....

Seeing as you made a voluntary statement, I then cited the perennial international loser in the club football scene and you go and make another error of judgment (I'm beginning to think "judgment" and self awareness isn't your forte) by talking about people that "changed the game" while leaving a trail on the argument regarding one of the most important individuals in football history where this particular debate would be in question.

Listen ruck sack! Go fuck with someone else before I ruin you and you end up tripping-up over the excessively stupid amount of letters in your name. Now, toddle on young man.

[Rucksackfranzose]

2 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

No, you must stop being ridiculously silly (have no idea what to call you, your name is incomprehensible and too long)... You attacked Johan Cruyff because of some stupid notion you thought would entertain by stimulating that brain cell that's placed all of its iq on his nick regarding international club trophies. You were then found wanting (not surprising) by not knowing what he'd won at all and then decided to disregard domestic football.

But with you it didn't stop there....

Seeing as you made a voluntary statement, I then cited the perennial international loser in the club football scene and you go and make another error of judgment (I'm beginning to think "judgment" and self awareness isn't your forte) by talking about people that "changed the game" while leaving a trail on the argument regarding one of the most important individuals in football history where this particular debate would be in question.

Listen ruck sack! Go fuck with someone else before I ruin you and you end up tripping-up over the excessively stupid amount of letters in your name. Now, toddle on young man.

Thank' it's long ago someone called me that. Especially someone, who's younger than me and doesn't even remenber the 1976 EC final.

[SirBalon]

49 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Thank' it's long ago someone called me that. Especially someone, who's younger than me and doesn't even remenber the 1976 EC final.

So you stoppped existing in 1992?

Listen! Keep to the point... You wrote a load of shit in a matter of hours and you've been found wanting. That in itself wouldn't have been a problem as I tend to ignore stupidity... But you then tried to be smart while you were swimming in your self-made puddle of nonsense and I went in for the kill.

Stay on track, analyse what you write before posting it.