Arsenal Discussion

[Panna King]

8 hours ago, SirBalon said:

It only takes for one or two of those players to be substandard to affect the whole synthesis of the team. The most sensitive point being the midfield as too much emphasis is put on defenders I’ve noticed.

We can’t go too into analysing individual players on their total standing but we do know that a few of them are very overrated and others are big errors when signed. Bellerín is exempt and I’m not being biased because he’s Spanish as I have logical motoves to believe this... One, he boomed into the side and totally annihilated Debuchy when he went out injured and the then French international never got a look in again... That’s to be lauded for such a young player at the time!  We forget to easily all these things.  He does still have a way to go but he is very young and been a mainstay of the Arsenal side from a very early age and that is all down to his progression and his effort.  Barça tried very hard to sign him and they’re no mugs when analysing these things through their scouts, they don’t just sign the dish of the day.

Xhaka is terrible and I don’t give a damn what anyone says... Under what reasoning was he signed for ARSENAL FOOTBALL CLUB?  The very first thing I done was ask the German members at tff what they thought when it was looking almost certain we were signing him and everything they said at the time is what has occurred.  With all due respects to the Bundesliga, any moments of positive analysis in his time there was something I thought had to be looked at with professional eyes which is something I can’t do because I’m not a scout and I don’t know anyone here that is so as to rely on that necessary opinion.  All I can go by with him is what I’ve seen at Arsenal and that ranges from the very mediocre to the erratic and sparse moments of a moment with a good midrange pass and a decent shot on him. Is someone really going to tell me that’s what Arsenal needed when they signed that all important midfielder?  They signed him and you know what for?  Because he is aggressive and they seemed to have thought that this was a vital ingredient missing in our midfield even though he obviously isn’t a defensive midfielder because of his erratic tackles and the fact his positioning is atrocious.  They must’ve thought (here’s me assuming things) that the rest of the midfield could cover for everything else because as a creative midfielder you wouldn’t put him in the top 50 in Europe and he isn’t a defensive midfielder... so what is it?  Where is he or was he good enough for Arsenal and what was being sort after to climb that extra step to competitiveness  in the search for the major titles.  Obviously Cazrola’s injury didn’t help but Santi was never going to cover his Xhaka’s mediocrity.

Do I need to go into talking about Mertersacker? let’s leave it there as his career (previous) isn’t a more than dignified one and doesn’t deserve to be slated but the Arsenal technical team kept him on.

Mustafi?  He isn’t a defensive leader and is one that’s comfortable on the ball and isn’t stupid the further he finds himself up the field.  Very capable in all of that.  But he isn’t elite although all players don’t have to be elite or even near it... They have to be good and he is good but needs a functioning team and protection from the midfield because of his natural game being to move forward.

Koscielny... He is a very good defender and if his partner is better than him then you’ve got a great unit.  He has definitely been overrated though and that has stuck on him.  He also isn’t a leader and here is where we start to see issues.  The team isn’t compensated in any position, is it?

Is Özil a leader?  NO BLOODY HELL!  He has extreme talent but what you analysed in the game against Swansea is consistent in his game.  When he’s on song he’s amazing and other times (too many) he’s very frustrating and hinders the work in the midfield which doesn’t just consist of attacking.

So who’s the leader in midfield?  Ramsey? Wilshere?  I’m not even going to go there because it could hurt some people’s beliefs that they hold to be strangely true.  They’re also very good players if the team is well coached and functioning... Enjoying their football!  They can do things that look really good.

So where is it all?

Those are the players and I won’t  go into the front men because it’s has no bearing in all of this but is and has been a massive issue at Arsenal for many years now.

We even bought a keeper that was finished but had a name in the Premier League hoping that his experience (it seems) would add that veteran sensation with the team and that some things could fall together.

Fundamentally there are mediocre players in there but there are also very good players that if the club signs well and they’re coached properly with discipline and understanding, that will create a belief in their coach that he can achieve the real honours.  The ones that make headlines around the world.  Even Trabzonspor don’t give a shit that they’re playing the FA CUP winners.  It doesn’t have a bearing outside our shores like if Athletic Bilbao won the Copa del Rey... It’s just a detail, a domestic one to be celebrated there.

Who did we sign now?

Mikhitaryan and Aubameyang. Both fine players in the sense that they’ve had fine moments at times in their careers which means they have talent.  But we needed a central defender to partner Koscielny and a midfielder to replace the shit Xhaka.  That’s all!  The striker in a fucked up season like this one could’ve waited for the summer and as an attacking midfielder we’ve already got Özil for now.

 

 

Wow you just ripped up Wengers Legacy   

[Panna King]

I think this season really will be the end of an era for Wenger, complete mess up of the league and FA Cup, his only hope of winning something is the League cup or the Europa League but I cannot see Arsenal one of the top teams left if they are drawn with them.    Transfers have been extremely poor also this season, everything has been a panic, even the one that was free Kolasinac looks like a shocking player if he cannot even get in this defence! Lacazette looks an extremely poor signing, that is why no one else was in for him after A Madrid were unable to sign him, Mikhitaryan was just swapped in a mad last minute panic as was the signing of Aubameyang who again was bought last minute.com.     The problems have not been addressed, Cech was dodgy last season but still stuck with him, central defence has been the poorest for a long while at the cub and the midfield again the same problems its just deja vu every season.    Players like Bellerin are not good enough also, he is always out of position, cannot cross, is more famous for his fashion then his football which kind of sums him up,  maybe if he does leave he can get his career back on track but he is going the same way as Walcott or a Gibbs  . Steve Bould also needs to fuck off, the biggest yes man in football!

Edited February 12, 2018 by VanPaddy

[Guest]

1 hour ago, VanPaddy said:

I think this season really will be the end of an era for Wenger, complete mess up of the league and FA Cup, his only hope of winning something is the League cup or the Europa League but I cannot see Arsenal one of the top teams left if they are drawn with them.    Transfers have been extremely poor also this season, everything has been a panic, even the one that was free Kolasinac looks like a shocking player if he cannot even get in this defence! Lacazette looks an extremely poor signing, that is why no one else was in for him after A Madrid were unable to sign him, Mikhitaryan was just swapped in a mad last minute panic as was the signing of Aubameyang who again was bought last minute.com.     The problems have not been addressed, Cech was dodgy last season but still stuck with him, central defence has been the poorest for a long while at the cub and the midfield again the same problems its just deja vu every season.    Players like Bellerin are not good enough also, he is always out of position, cannot cross, is more famous for his fashion then his football which kind of sums him up,  maybe if he does leave he can get his career back on track but he is going the same way as Walcott or a Gibbs  . Steve Bould also needs to fuck off, the biggest yes man in football!

I think abamayang was a good signing and lacazette is good backup for him. I don't think the quality if the defenders is the issue its the coaching I think. I don't see how anyone can really defend Wenger anymore. Anyone who read my previous posts will know I have given him the benefit of the doubt more than most but there is no way you can say we couldn't do better now the way we are going.

[Guest]

On 02/02/2018 at 23:48, SirBalon said:

Come on mate... We’ve played against all sorts of sides in every position in the Premier League table and they’ve defended better during the game.  Infact we got knocked out against Nottingham Forest and they defended better than us apart from the fact that they were more effective attacking wise than us.  If that isn’t evidence of coaching issues be it in the guise you want it to be then I don’t know what is.  I’m not buying those teams have better players than us.

I actually think our defence could be solid with good coaching. I think we have good defenders. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I actually think our defence could be solid with good coaching. I think we have good defenders. 

I don't think you'll ever actually tell until a new coach is brought in. But I don't really rate your defenders, tbh. Perhaps you're right and a new manager could fix some of your defensive issues.

I do think Wenger needs to go. I think Arsenal lack leadership, on and off the pitch. Which is a pretty far cry from when you look at the truly great Arsenal sides under his tenure as manager - where the side was full of leaders and character and when you could never accuse the manager of lacking leadership.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't think you'll ever actually tell until a new coach is brought in. But I don't really rate your defenders, tbh. Perhaps you're right and a new manager could fix some of your defensive issues.

I do think Wenger needs to go. I think Arsenal lack leadership, on and off the pitch. Which is a pretty far cry from when you look at the truly great Arsenal sides under his tenure as manager - where the side was full of leaders and character and when you could never accuse the manager of lacking leadership.

I don't actually think the current side is as bad as some make out. I  think they are stronger than some Arsenal sides that finished higher. But I think there is s strong top 6 at the minute and it is harder to get into the top 4. As for the defence I think a lot of the mistakes are clearly down to lack of being drilled so I think it is hard to tell how good they are at times like you said but mustafi was highly rated so for me a lot is probably down to coaching.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

I don't actually think the current side is as bad as some make out. I  think they are stronger than some Arsenal sides that finished higher. But I think there is s strong top 6 at the minute and it is harder to get into the top 4. As for the defence I think a lot of the mistakes are clearly down to lack of being drilled so I think it is hard to tell how good they are at times like you said but mustafi was highly rated so for me a lot is probably down to coaching.

Yeah, I think you might be right. I think there's issues with the coaching and overall leadership on and off the pitch at Arsenal - it wouldn't surprise me if the players looked much better under a different coach.

Which isn't to take anything away from Wenger and his legacy at Arsenal or English football. It just really seems like things have gone stale with Wenger at Arsenal. The tactics are sometimes baffling and, like I said, when I think of the best Arsenal sides in my lifetime they were full of leadership and character - which I don't really see too much of anymore.

[SirBalon]

18 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I actually think our defence could be solid with good coaching. I think we have good defenders. 

We have no idea what may or may not be with another coach as to the quality of our players.  I personally rate Mustafi to be honest and Koscielny has shown in the past that he's a top defender.  Bellerín is for me and for many one of the best young right-backs in Europe while Monreal is solid and has even shown he's capable as a centre-back when needed.  So in theory they're not that bad at all and anyhow, I've always blamed our midfield mostly when it comes to letting so much pressure be received from opponents.  You can have the biggest names in the game at the back but if your midfield doesn't function properly or isn't well compensated, then you'll always suffer.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah, I think you might be right. I think there's issues with the coaching and overall leadership on and off the pitch at Arsenal - it wouldn't surprise me if the players looked much better under a different coach.

Which isn't to take anything away from Wenger and his legacy at Arsenal or English football. It just really seems like things have gone stale with Wenger at Arsenal. The tactics are sometimes baffling and, like I said, when I think of the best Arsenal sides in my lifetime they were full of leadership and character - which I don't really see too much of anymore.

I think Wenger has to stick to his guns though. Managers have to be stubborn. I mean all managers get critised he shouldn't change things because fans think he should. II think it will be hard for Arsenal to get to the level some fans want but a club like Arsenal has to be always trying to improve for me

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

We have no idea what may or may not be with another coach as to the quality of our players.  I personally rate Mustafi to be honest and Koscielny has shown in the past that he's a top defender.  Bellerín is for me and for many one of the best young right-backs in Europe while Monreal is solid and has even shown he's capable as a centre-back when needed.  So in theory they're not that bad at all and anyhow, I've always blamed our midfield mostly when it comes to letting so much pressure be received from opponents.  You can have the biggest names in the game at the back but if your midfield doesn't function properly or isn't well compensated, then you'll always suffer.

Yeah but again that isn't necessarily the players fault. If Wenger doesn't play defensively minded midfielders then the defence has no protection

Edited February 13, 2018 by Guest

[SirBalon]

3 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Yeah but again that isn't necessarily the players fault. If Wenger doesn't play defensively minded midfielders then the defence has no protection

That's what I was getting at.

[Panna King]

6 hours ago, SirBalon said:

We have no idea what may or may not be with another coach as to the quality of our players.  I personally rate Mustafi to be honest and Koscielny has shown in the past that he's a top defender.  Bellerín is for me and for many one of the best young right-backs in Europe while Monreal is solid and has even shown he's capable as a centre-back when needed.  So in theory they're not that bad at all and anyhow, I've always blamed our midfield mostly when it comes to letting so much pressure be received from opponents.  You can have the biggest names in the game at the back but if your midfield doesn't function properly or isn't well compensated, then you'll always suffer.

I know Bellerin can be good attacking  but really what has he done to justify that amount of praise?   I have failed to see anything postive this season. 

 

 

It seems to me like a lot of the current and previous players once Wenger has his hands on them he ruins them, they seem to go off form for very long period.  It has to go down to the coaching and lack of tactics.

[Panna King]

7 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I think abamayang was a good signing and lacazette is good backup for him. I don't think the quality if the defenders is the issue its the coaching I think. I don't see how anyone can really defend Wenger anymore. Anyone who read my previous posts will know I have given him the benefit of the doubt more than most but there is no way you can say we couldn't do better now the way we are going.

Aubameyang probably will be good but It be nice of had him a few years ago , but he would never of joined us then.  It was only that no one else would risk paying 60 million for a player who will be 29 apart from Arsenal as they were desperate.   I do think Lacazette could be decent but he is falling in to this trap like a lot of previous players that they go off form to long,  its frightening to think what actually goes on at training. 

 

 

Arsenal do have an ageing team now, alot of work will be needed to replace alot of players, so it is a big myth that Wenger looks for the future, buying old players and not many quality young players at the club.

[True Blue]

Lacazette out for up to six weeks after minor knee surgery

Source: Sky Sports

[Panna King]

43 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Lacazette out for up to six weeks after minor knee surgery

Source: Sky Sports

Explains his poor form

[SirBalon]

That does explain a lot actually. 

[Panna King]

Seems like that someone inside the club has spoke to the press,  that Wenger has a clause in his contract if he fails to make champions league football this season he will be sacked.  

[Cicero]

24 minutes ago, VanPaddy said:

Seems like that someone inside the club has spoke to the press,  that Wenger has a clause in his contract if he fails to make champions league football this season he will be sacked.  

But I thought Kroenke was contempt with mediocrity? 

[Panna King]

15 minutes ago, Cicero said:

But I thought Kroenke was contempt with mediocrity? 

Well he is losing out in money so that has pissed him off.

[Dave]

Quote

Arsenal released Harry Kane from their youth setup because he was "a bit chubby" and "not very athletic", according to Liam Brady.

Kane admitted to having a "chip on his shoulder" after being released by the Gunners at the age of eight, but says the decision was the "best thing that ever happened" and he scored his 101st Premier League goal for Tottenham against their north London rivals at the weekend.

Brady, who was Arsenal's academy director, admits the club made a mistake when they decided to allow Kane to leave but praised the striker for his attitude.

 

[SirBalon]

7 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

 

These sorts of things do happen to be honest and have occurred at every club.

To be honest, for me when Kane first burst onto the scene I didn't see anything special, but then again I'm not paid to spot these things. 

[LFCMadLad]

30 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

These sorts of things do happen to be honest and have occurred at every club.

To be honest, for me when Kane first burst onto the scene I didn't see anything special, but then again I'm not paid to spot these things. 

You also thought we were robbed blind paying £28m for Bobby Firmino 

[SirBalon]

11 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You also thought we were robbed blind paying £28m for Bobby Firmino 

Hahaha... I still believe exactly the same thing mate and it's unfair to quote £28m in today's market because when you signed Firmino that was a very high transfer fee,. The only players that had reached the £70m+ range were names of the ilk of Cristiano Ronaldo, Gareth Bale and Luis Suárez. (I could add Neymar when he moved to Barça but nobody still knows the actual fee on that one for sure).

[Danny]

3 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

You also thought we were robbed blind paying £28m for Bobby Firmino 

To be honest the entire German section thought you'd been robbed of something there

[LFCMadLad]

29 minutes ago, Danny said:

To be honest the entire German section thought you'd been robbed of something there

To be fair he didn’t look all that when he first arrived under Rodgers, whether that was Rodgers not utilising him properly or what I don’t know. 

Under Klopp though he’s been an absolute revelation and possibly has become our most important player in terms of how he fits the system Klopp likes to play. 

£28m now looks an absolute snip.