Man City 5-0 Burnley - Monday 22nd June, 2020

[Spike]

Just read this interesting take

Quote

White people living in Burnley and other shithole post industrial towns and cities have been left behind by this country for almost half a century and now they've been told black lives matter for weeks with massive support from the media, football clubs and celebrities whilst having the worst living standards in the country
How can people not expect a reaction when they've been ignored for multiple generations
How can they see the problems black people face when they've got far too many problems of their own

 

[Fairy In Boots]

Just now, Stan said:

So much for 'we're all adults' yet you still love to continue using the word

Grow up. 

Oh come off it Stan he’s always happy to dish it out my way and massively generalise in the process and not see the irony of him doing that. I’m having multiple conversations here, genuine debate with 1-2 and I’m indulging in absolute shit housery with Smiley fuck him, he dished it out but can never take it back. 

5 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah we are adults, so we should know when we are being offensive, and when it is and isn't necessary. It goes both ways, I'm afraid.

I’m being offensive to smiley certainly, everyone else getting offended is oversensitive really. You’ve got to go some to get offended by my use there really

[LFCMadLad]

Is calling someone a dick actually offensive to anyone with a dick?

Asking for a friend. 

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Is calling someone a dick actually offensive to anyone with a dick?

Asking for a friend. 

I'd be pretty sad if I had lost my dick in an unfortunate accident and someone called me a dick 

[Mpache]

This thread is fucking gold. Archive this.

[Stan]

9 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Oh come off it Stan he’s always happy to dish it out my way and massively generalise in the process and not see the irony of him doing that. I’m having multiple conversations here, genuine debate with 1-2 and I’m indulging in absolute shit housery with Smiley fuck him, he dished it out but can never take it back.

Again, you say we're all adults here but most adults wouldn't rise to the bait and would be the bigger person whether it's dished out or not. And certainly wouldn't go on to carry on using the same word(s) when you know that word gets under someone's skin (rightly or wrongly).

It's an Internet forum. Basically just seen a lot of keyboard-warrior-esque stuff tonight. 

Ergo, grow up. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

16 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Ok hear me out, back in the 90’s when something became offensive it actually drove people to it, rock and roll for example. If you start banning things you give them power, if you don’t it lessens it. 
 

case in point the 4th time I called smiley a Blubbering sunflowers is nowhere near as shocking as the first time I did it, be honest it’s not. 

Im not sure this analogy fits at all. First off, I think rock music was pretty popular by the 90s. It may have been very controversial way back in the 50s and 60s. But I think that’s more because of the energy of the music being way different to what was commonly listened to back them & the sexual nature of the lyrics & dancing. That’s more social conservatives getting offended noise and sex than offending people for the sake of offending people.

Let’s be honest here, using that word (which I’m guilty of using too much too, by the way) isn’t some act of rebellion while also bringing more attention to people suffering of cerebral palsy. You’re just calling him: a moron, an idiot, or just stupid. Tons of other ways to say that that are acceptable, so it’s not like your thoughts are being censored by just asking you to use a different word.

I doubt if we took a poll from black people across the world saying that if the n word was to never be used again, would it give that word more power.

[LFCMadLad]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Im not sure this analogy fits at all. First off, I think rock music was pretty popular by the 90s. It may have been very controversial way back in the 50s and 60s. But I think that’s more because of the energy of the music being way different to what was commonly listened to back them & the sexual nature of the lyrics & dancing. That’s more social conservatives getting offended noise and sex than offending people for the sake of offending people.

Let’s be honest here, using that word (which I’m guilty of using too much too, by the way) isn’t some act of rebellion while also bringing more attention to people suffering of cerebral palsy. You’re just calling him: a moron, an idiot, or just stupid. Tons of other ways to say that that are acceptable, so it’s not like your thoughts are being censored by just asking you to use a different word.

I doubt if we took a poll from black people across the world saying that if the n word was to never be used again, would it give that word more power.

Black people call each other the 'N' word literally all the time. Is that OK?

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Black people call each other the 'N' word literally all the time. Is that OK?

I think it's incredibly difficult for white people like us to really have a decent take on stuff like this when we're the main ones who have never really suffered heavily because of our race, certainly not in countries like the UK where everyone is in a minority apart from us.

You can obviously say what you want but I think the longer people default to the "yeah buts" and "what ifs" and false equivalence, they're just making more noise and prolonging this discussion which I'm afraid isn't going to go away.

Let's be honest, you and me know basically nothing about racism. For me it's a case of trying to listen to people who do know about racism, i.e. those that have suffered from it first hand. And I'm not saying you cant have an opinion on it anyway, just that if you genuinely want to understand the answers to things like the question you've posted here, you're probably not going to find it on a forum where a bunch of white guys and one Indian man are arguing about how offended we should and shouldn't be about issues of race.

I'm not saying this is you but a common thread of people who say stuff like all lives matter, white lives matter, aren't that the people saying it are actual racists in any way, but that they feel somehow personally threatened or accused of being racist by accepting that at this moment in time, the conversation about black lives is the one that's most important at this moment in time.

Admitting that no matter how many journalists and commentators I listen to talk about racism, and how much reading I might have done about it, that I still basically know fuck all about it is what I've personally taken from this whole episode.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Let's be honest, you and me know basically nothing about racism. For me it's a case of trying to listen to people who do know about racism, i.e. those that have suffered from it first hand. And I'm not saying you cant have an opinion on it anyway, just that if you genuinely want to understand the answers to things like the question you've posted here, you're probably not going to find it on a forum where a bunch of white guys and one Indian man are arguing about how offended we should and shouldn't be about issues of race.

It's a good post overall but I reckon if he asks the right questions he would definitely be able to find out first hand from people who have suffered racial abuse first hand.

Basically, hello. 

[Spike]

I've taken racist abuse from people at school, felt different and felt threatened by being different skin colour. But I've never felt like the powers that be (whether public or private entities) were racist towards me, or that any oppurtunities were blocked because of my race. I've never felt disadvantaged because of my race but I've definitely felt unwanted in a hostile environment because of my race. I feel people need to understand the nuance of that dichotomy. 

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

It's a good post overall but I reckon if he asks the right questions he would definitely be able to find out first hand from people who have suffered racial abuse first hand.

Basically, hello. 

Ok so true story...

 

One of my best mates/brother in law lost his dad 6 weeks ago. Only very few of their family was able to attend the funeral.

After the funeral he had a select few members of his family round to his house for a few drinks (shouldn't have i know). 

4 days ago my mate received a letter from the police saying social distancing was in force and he was in breach and that he was being monitored to ensure it didn't happen again. 

My mate spoke to me and plenty others about feeling shit that all this BLM protests were seeing thousands of black people disregarding social distancing, along with ripping down statues, beating white people to a pulp, robbing shops and generally being absolute dickheads.

So he wrote back and his exact words on a blank piece of paper were "GET FUCKED"... and i don't blame him.

Was my mate being discriminated against?

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mpache said:

It's just nice having a feud not revolving around me for a change  

Normally I would get involved but I've had so many arguments with racist people on Facebook I really can't be bothered.  Some people can be educated but some people are always gonna be racist so no point in trying. I actually find it very upsetting that there is so much of it still around.

[Dr. Gonzo]

19 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Black people call each other the 'N' word literally all the time. Is that OK?

I'm not going to pretend I know how a black man thinks, because I haven't had the experience of a black man in the UK or US. But I googled it and I found this: https://www.theroot.com/why-its-ok-for-black-people-but-not-white-people-to-u-1826255011 - seems like there isn't consensus in the black community as to whether it's okay to do this either. (Warning: this article might trigger some people on this forum that aren't too sympathetic with the overall idea of BLM, but it gives the perspective from a black guy in the US that does like saying the word.)

Racial issues are complicated problems rooted in systemic issues - they really aren't best addressed with simple slogans like "Black Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter." Honestly, I think it's a bit ridiculous how many people on the BLM side have had to make the obvious rebuttal to people where they have to say "obviously, we think all lives matter - we are just trying to bring to light systemic problems."

4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Ok so true story...

 

One of my best mates/brother in law lost his dad 6 weeks ago. Only very few of their family was able to attend the funeral.

After the funeral he had a select few members of his family round to his house for a few drinks (shouldn't have i know). 

4 days ago my mate received a letter from the police saying social distancing was in force and he was in breach and that he was being monitored to ensure it didn't happen again. 

My mate spoke to me and plenty others about feeling shit that all this BLM protests were seeing thousands of black people disregarding social distancing, along with ripping down statues, beating white people to a pulp, robbing shops and generally being absolute dickheads.

So he wrote back and his exact words on a blank piece of paper were "GET FUCKED"... and i don't blame him.

Was my mate being discriminated against?

 

I think it's possible to agree that: 1.) your friend has a right to feel aggrieved, 2.) people shouldn't be beating people or looting, 3.) to agree with the general message of the protestors (most of whom have been peaceful, btw) in ending systemic racism (which is much less of a problem in the UK than the US, imo, especially with regard to policing... but why not push to end that discrimination).

The world isn't black and white and you don't have to pick from 2 extreme positions. You can have a more nuanced view that lies somewhere in the grey area between black and white. Sadly, seems like too many people have forgotten that.

[Spike]

8 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Ok so true story...

 

One of my best mates/brother in law lost his dad 6 weeks ago. Only very few of their family was able to attend the funeral.

After the funeral he had a select few members of his family round to his house for a few drinks (shouldn't have i know). 

4 days ago my mate received a letter from the police saying social distancing was in force and he was in breach and that he was being monitored to ensure it didn't happen again. 

My mate spoke to me and plenty others about feeling shit that all this BLM protests were seeing thousands of black people disregarding social distancing, along with ripping down statues, beating white people to a pulp, robbing shops and generally being absolute dickheads.

So he wrote back and his exact words on a blank piece of paper were "GET FUCKED"... and i don't blame him.

Was my mate being discriminated against?

 

I’d say that is discrimination, or at the very least incompetence at upholding the law to an honourable and consistent degree

[Michael]

2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Do you have a disability? 
 

because I’m calling you a Blubbering sunflowers in the context that you’re stupid. I think the struggle to process this adds weight to my claim that you’re indeed a Blubbering sunflowers

Do you get enjoyment out of insulting others on here?

@Spike explained it perfectly as to why the flying of that banner was a pathetic act. 

For the record, I do not support all the objectives of this BLM organisation. However, I do stand against any unfair discrimination that occurs in our society. 

[LFCMadLad]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not going to pretend I know how a black man thinks, because I haven't had the experience of a black man in the UK or US. But I googled it and I found this: https://www.theroot.com/why-its-ok-for-black-people-but-not-white-people-to-u-1826255011 - seems like there isn't consensus in the black community as to whether it's okay to do this either. (Warning: this article might trigger some people on this forum that aren't too sympathetic with the overall idea of BLM, but it gives the perspective from a black guy in the US that does like saying the word.)

Racial issues are complicated problems rooted in systemic issues - they really aren't best addressed with simple slogans like "Black Lives Matter" and "All Lives Matter." Honestly, I think it's a bit ridiculous how many people on the BLM side have had to make the obvious rebuttal to people where they have to say "obviously, we think all lives matter - we are just trying to bring to light systemic problems."

I think it's possible to agree that: 1.) your friend has a right to feel aggrieved, 2.) people shouldn't be beating people or looting, 3.) to agree with the general message of the protestors (most of whom have been peaceful, btw) in ending systemic racism (which is much less of a problem in the UK than the US, imo, especially with regard to policing... but why not push to end that discrimination).

The world isn't black and white and you don't have to pick from 2 extreme positions. You can have a more nuanced view that lies somewhere in the grey area between black and white. Sadly, seems like too many people have forgotten that.

Look mate, this the gods honest truth...

I swear I have no preference of colour, religion, culture, whatever.. My personal view is that if someone is right with me and my family/friends, ill be right with them.

I know i should probably look deeper into things sometimes but I'll be honest.. having something pushed upon me day in day out just really grates on me. 

My bad if I sometimes come across as an ignorant pig but that's just me, its the way my brain works. Seriously, I love ANYONE who loves me back, whatever their background.

[Spike]

29 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Look mate, this the gods honest truth...

I swear I have no preference of colour, religion, culture, whatever.. My personal view is that if someone is right with me and my family/friends, ill be right with them.

I know i should probably look deeper into things sometimes but I'll be honest.. having something pushed upon me day in day out just really grates on me. 

My bad if I sometimes come across as an ignorant pig but that's just me, its the way my brain works. Seriously, I love ANYONE who loves me back, whatever their background.

I wouldn’t think anyone doubts ya capacity for kindness mate. Ultimately we are simple people faced with massively complicated problems

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

It's a good post overall but I reckon if he asks the right questions he would definitely be able to find out first hand from people who have suffered racial abuse first hand.

Basically, hello. 

A few years ago I had a few tests when I was seeing a psychologist. I test higher than average for empathy. I go out of my way to find out what it is like for a black person. I'm still finding out new things all the time. So even with higher than average empathy levels and trying very hard I still don't get it. So really a white person  who has made no attempt to find out can't understand and shouldn't be telling black people they are offended to easily.

[Michael]

1 hour ago, LFCMadLad said:

Ok so true story...

 

One of my best mates/brother in law lost his dad 6 weeks ago. Only very few of their family was able to attend the funeral.

After the funeral he had a select few members of his family round to his house for a few drinks (shouldn't have i know). 

4 days ago my mate received a letter from the police saying social distancing was in force and he was in breach and that he was being monitored to ensure it didn't happen again. 

My mate spoke to me and plenty others about feeling shit that all this BLM protests were seeing thousands of black people disregarding social distancing, along with ripping down statues, beating white people to a pulp, robbing shops and generally being absolute dickheads.

So he wrote back and his exact words on a blank piece of paper were "GET FUCKED"... and i don't blame him.

Was my mate being discriminated against?

 

I personally feel that the government and the police have not handled this COVID-19 situation well at all.

I empathise with how your mate feels, it is very hard for all the people who have lost loved ones in these testing times. I myself, lost a close cousin recently in January, not through COVID-19, but through a freak accident. He was a graduate of the University of Cambridge and he was genuinely a lovely bloke with his whole life ahead of him. So I feel the pain of others who have lost loved ones in these current times.

However, I really do think that we should view things in context. There were people gatherings around the country, before this BLM stuff started in England, especially in London. Moreover, the BLM protests were done by a variety of people from different backgrounds. They all protested for a cause they feel strongly about, namely that racism and discrimination is not "cool". I happen to agree with this cause, just as any decent human being would.

As for those who were robbing shops and beating others up, well they are scumbags who have taken advantage of these particular protests. They are scum, whether they are black or whether they are white. Just like how disgusting it was when the Football Lads Alliance came down to London to attack the police and some black people about a week ago. You'll get scumbags from all backgrounds.

The police unfortunately have not been able to arrest or punish all the people who have breached the distancing rules. It's almost impossible for them to do so, given the number of people breaching the distancing laws. So what they do is that they single people out, by going up to them and warning them. Is it fair? No, not really, because many people who are breaching the distancing rules, are going unpunished. But I don't think that your friend was being discriminated against, I just think that he was unlucky that he was caught breaching the rules.

I am sorry that your mate lost his father and for all the others who have passed away during these past few months of the lockdown. Not having a proper funeral to mourn ones loved ones, is a very unfortunate and sad situation.

[LFCMadLad]

I will say I'm sorry to everyone that I've been an absolute shithouse recently. 

I'm just feeling outrageously frustrated with everything at the moment. 

[Michael]

27 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I will say I'm sorry to everyone that I've been an absolute shithouse recently. 

I'm just feeling outrageously frustrated with everything at the moment. 

I've not been following your discussions with others or seen you have arguments with others, apart from maybe on this particular thread. But I will say that it takes a big man to apologise and admit when he's wrong.

A lot of people have struggled during this lockdown, including myself. Everyone has their own battles in life, it's how we deal with it that is important mate. When times are tough, I personally try and look at the positive things in my life. We all have to be patient at different periods of our lives, I think that we just have to accept this fact.

Whatever your particular frustrations are, try and be patient. I think that this COVID-19 lockdown situation has been a test for loads of people around the world, but it's not going to last forever, so lets try and keep positive. All the best pal.

 

[Dan+]

50 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I will say I'm sorry to everyone that I've been an absolute shithouse recently. 

I'm just feeling outrageously frustrated with everything at the moment. 

Can relate. Never seen so much utter rubbish spouted in the space of about a month as the past one. Actually quite sad to see the insanity polluting some minds I thought were better (more so on Twitter than here).

[Happy Blue]

7 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

I've been offended loads of times in my life.. its not only certain people that get the rough end. 

I cant be offended because i just don't give a fuck  

[Stan]

6 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

Ok so true story...

 

One of my best mates/brother in law lost his dad 6 weeks ago. Only very few of their family was able to attend the funeral.

After the funeral he had a select few members of his family round to his house for a few drinks (shouldn't have i know). 

4 days ago my mate received a letter from the police saying social distancing was in force and he was in breach and that he was being monitored to ensure it didn't happen again. 

My mate spoke to me and plenty others about feeling shit that all this BLM protests were seeing thousands of black people disregarding social distancing, along with ripping down statues, beating white people to a pulp, robbing shops and generally being absolute dickheads.

So he wrote back and his exact words on a blank piece of paper were "GET FUCKED"... and i don't blame him.

Was my mate being discriminated against?

 

To me that's incredibly petty. I'm not sure that's discrimination? For instance how do you know that the same scenario hasn't been applied to non-white people? As in they've attended a funeral and not socially distanced and also been warned? 

I'm not gonna have a go at you because of your earlier post at top of this page but it ever so slightly unsettles me that your first go-to is the BLM protests but no mention of the 'protests' the week after where several white people went to protect statues but also ended up fighting and attacking police for no bizarre reason. Anyway, maybe that's just me being petty. 

 

And while I sympathise with your friends scenario (I honestly do, I think it's where common sense should be applied by authorities in those situations and not basically pile on the misery for someone), my point was more that Rando fancied including me and almost inferred as if I've not experienced any racism along with 'some white guys on an Internet forum'. Maybe got the wrong end of the stick but it perplexed me a little when I read his post.