Chelsea Discussion

[The Liquidator]

3 hours ago, Willsy said:

Fuck me, how old are you lot? Havnt got a clue. We smashed Sevilla at theirs, where they simply don’t lose in Europe, we went 15 games or so unbeaten?? How many clean sheets? Timo was looking sharp and scoring, ziyech was hot... and now there’s a blip in the road it’s oh let’s change the manager again. Fans my arse, have some faith in the project ffs, the days where managers can come in and change things around and win have gone because we don’t have the experienced squads and players we once had. It’s a new era and it’s time you lot understood that and had some patience.

As Gary Lineker said on the arrival of Ruud Gullit to Chelsea Football Club in 1995, "He will soon learn who not to pass the Ball too"

You too will soon learn who to read here & who to place on ignore saving you time & head shaking. 

 

[Stan]

34 minutes ago, Rick said:

There’s having faith with reason and then there’s having blind faith, and it’s sounds like you’ve got the latter. Has Lampard really done anything to warrant the faith you’re telling others to have? 
 

I appreciate he’s a club legend, but he is doing a bad job. There’s nothing to suggest he has an idea how to get out of this rut, it’s just constant chop and change every game.  

Probably end up doing what Man City do. Throw money at problems and hope some of it works out. 

[Willsy]

Genuinely baffling how people think this has all of a sudden become the time for lamps to go. When 5 weeks ago we were looking like title challengers, new players adapting to the physicality and demands of the premier league, at the moment it’s simple, there isn’t a great balance because our midfield is not equipt to compliment the lads in front, I see the front 3 Making continuous runs in behind and no player in midfield has the confidence or aggression in their pass to pick them out. Jorginho was doing it early on in the season, but kova, mount, kante just pass across the back line. It’s a simple tweak that will come in time. It’s about time some “fans” got out of the kneejerk phase and had some patience. 

[Cicero]

Think you need to give your head a wobble if you genuinely believe beating Sheffield United, Palace, Leeds, and Newcastle whilst failing to beat anyone in the Top 10, warranted us being labeled title contenders. Far as I'm concerned there's two scenarios on whether or not you can really see if a manager is capable of getting out of a bad rut. 

1. We are generating poor results but you can clearly see the football we want to play and it looks sustainable. 

2. We are generating poor results and you can't see what the manager wants in the team nor any evidence of progression. 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Cicero

[Danny]

I know people sack managers far too quickly these days, and my own club have benefitted from sticking with a manager in a rut. But I’m not sure what it is people see in Lampard that means he’ll be a long term manager at Chelsea?

He pulled up no trees at Derby, got the job through his name much like he did at Chelsea. Made very consistent defensive errors last season that still aren’t fixed, errors that a certain Chelsea fan on here *cough cough* @The Liquidator *cough cough* would have had a copy and paste fit over if it was Sarri. Took Chelsea to a 4th place finish, OK, he met the minimum standard of a Chelsea manager in a season where Spurs and Arsenal both sacked their managers, with the squad he had at his disposal Chelsea should have finished above Leicester, Wolves etc as they did.

Chelsea brought in £200m+ worth of players, the minimum expectation from this haul is a title challenge as it should be when you make such a large amount of high profile signings and they are currently 11 points off the league leaders and maybe 12 if City win their game in hand. Chelsea have just lost to Leicester, City, Arsenal (performance-wise, very, very badly) and drew with Villa. Their win against West Ham was not a performance that warranted the score line, they lost to Wolves and Everton prior to that too. If Spurs and Everton win their games in hand Chelsea will also be 7 points off 5th and 9 points off of 4th. But the underlying fact is that Lampard’s team has progressively got worse when it should have got better. There is nothing to look at under Lampard’s reign that suggests things could be very good. No Bundesliga wins, no German Cup wins, no Champions League finalists, no consistently improved seasons and performances, literally nothing.
 

Chelsea did go 17 games unbeaten as was stated, 6 draws and they picked wins up against Sevilla (good), Rennes (OK), Spurs (1-1 in normal time, went to pens), Newcastle, Sheffield Utd, Burnley, Krasnodar, Palace and the mighty Barnsley. Hardly a record to look back on and think “yeah, we were definitely title contenders”...alongside West Ham.

Chelsea should never have hired him in the first place, massive mistake that has set them back. I don’t know a lot about Tuchel individually other than both Dortmund and PSG wanted rid of him, not sure he’s the best replacement but ze Germans will know better.

[The Liquidator]

There is no doubt in my mind this was coming and was needed. As much as I wanted Frank to succeed its been obvious too me for most of this season he has not improved as a manager since last year and was holding us back. If you are a regular viewer of our entire games It's difficult to see where Frank won us games from the sideline once we got passed his 5 at the back surprise. His inabilty to fix the defence had me begging for him to bring someone in to work with the defence since the start of the season. So much more could be written.

Anyway, feel for him but this is the correct decision. The buzz for sometime was there were senior players bad mouthing him to above, but its the falling out with Marina over Rice which seems to have weakened his position enough for this decision if we are to believe those who have been proven right in the past.

We now have the owners first choice to replace Conte. 18 months will be extended once he wins something and lets face it, if he has anything about him, he has all the tools to do so in this 2nd asterix season. 

 

[Cicero]

No way those are your words. 

[The Artful Dodger]

https://newsthump.com/2021/01/27/roman-abramovic-getting-impatient-as-tuchel-enters-second-trophyless-day/

 

 

[carefreeluke]

Nobody knows if the talk of player unrest is true but I'll say one thing.

No matter who's the manager, surely that's in the manager's job description anyway? Player management is part of the job and whilst I didn't want Lampard to get sacked, surely a lot of it is his job to get the players on board and keep them as happy as possible. The biggest reports of player unrest came when Lampard was playing for us under AVB and I said the same then about the Portuguese manager. A few players made some negative comments about AVB which didn't really come to surface until after, I guess the same might happen with Lampard. Then again it could all be not true, we don't know.

This sacking and hiring culture of course though can create an environment where it's more likely the players will down tools but regarding Lampard and the players there's been nothing significant reported yet that would suggest this is the case.

 

[Cicero]

On the contrary, I think the board have showed some patience the past 3 managers. 

Giving Conte the season after his meltdown and constantly criticising the board. Trusting Sarri to see out the season after humiliating defeats from City and Bournemouth. I think the trigger had to be pulled on Lampard given there was now enough evidence to suggest he wasn't capable of accomplishing what was required. Experience saw out the other two managers. 

Don't really think any of our players down tools under Lampard. If anything, it just looked like 11 individuals on the pitch without a plan. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Cicero

[carefreeluke]

That's true about Conte and Sarri, particularly Conte.

[The Liquidator]

Yeah you sound very much like other dissappointed Chelsea fans at this news. I have no idea if what is being bounded about is true, however the people sharing this view at my board are very reliable, known to be friends with both current staff n players at the club.

To be perfectly honest, its Franks performance as manager failier in tactics & lack of wins this season which was enough for me for him losing his job. I heard him field questions no more than a week ago where he was asked does he know his best starting 11 yet?

I would suggest the new managers starting 11 over the next 4-7 games will be very revealing.

[Danny]

The biggest irony behind all of this is the action Roman has taken is the action that has brought them success, their biggest successes, what has made them the “big” club they are now. Fans who are upset with the board, no sympathy, need to stop whining over it.

[The Liquidator]

A little better, but hardly ground breaking stuff. One hopes with the return of Kante this manager works out that Jorginho and Kovacic should never ever start a game together. Their forward play last night was about as deadly as a balloon covered in cotton wool.

Very much looking forward to the weekends match. Manager let the club down in Sheffield last season and while currently bottom of the league there is some improvement in their performances of late. Every Blue knows they will fancy it against us, so this is the ideal fixture to gage if this new manager has it between the ears to listen to the warnings and ensure we are at it from the first whistle Sunday night.

[carefreeluke]

@The Liquidator

Not that I take most things this man says seriously but interesting comments from Sherwood here, not the type of pundit you'd normally see giving players like Jorginho and Kovacic praise. I've been the first to slaughter Jorginho and especially Kovacic recently but I have to admit they've looked better. The Wolves game I thought they were poor and it was a game that demonstrated most of the things that frustrate me with them, that is moving the ball too slowly and not playing forward enough. Against Burnley, there was a notable improvement in this area I thought, they played quicker, were more direct and had decent games. Against Spurs, I thought they continued some of the good things they showed against Burnley but also had some periods in the game where they got a bit too passive, slow and comfortable on the ball. Their calmness, composure and ability on the ball was definitely one of the key things that helped us against Spurs but I have to admit I was still crying out for them at times to play forward more especially in the first half. Hopefully, Tuchel can get them doing the good things more and more regularly. Overall, their performances under Tuchel have been more like it but given their inconsistencies in the past, you can never get too carried away. The system definitely suits them a lot more though as they have more protection.

Edited February 5, 2021 by carefreeluke

[Cicero]

The progressive passes and quick transition is something I expect to be drilled by Tuchel. 

Here is an interesting stat. Under Lampard, it took nearly 16 passes for us to create an attack. Under Tuchel at PSG, it took them nearly 8 passes. 

[The Liquidator]

54 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

@The Liquidator

Not that I take most things this man says seriously but interesting comments from Sherwood here, not the type of pundit you'd normally see giving players like Jorginho and Kovacic praise. I've been the first to slaughter Jorginho and especially Kovacic recently but I have to admit they've looked better. The Wolves game I thought they were poor and it was a game that demonstrated most of the things that frustrate me with them, that is moving the ball too slowly and not playing forward enough. Against Burnley, there was a notable improvement in this area I thought, they played quicker, were more direct and had decent games. Against Spurs, I thought they continued some of the good things they showed against Burnley but also had some periods in the game where they got a bit too passive, slow and comfortable on the ball. Their calmness, composure and ability on the ball was definitely one of the key things that helped us against Spurs but I have to admit I was still crying out for them at times to play forward more especially in the first half. Hopefully, Tuchel can get them doing the good things more and more regularly. Overall, their performances under Tuchel have been more like it but given their inconsistencies in the past, you can never get too carried away. The system definitely suits them a lot more though as they have more protection.

You obviously didnt take in the BT feed of the game as Hoddle n those in the studio all pointed out how deep Hojbjerg & Sissoko were in the first half which allowed our pair to look half decent, well decent for them but still both passengers going forward. 2nd half higher tempo of Spurs with a higher press we were not able to boss the game as we did in the 1st half and the passengers were back to normal.

Your right on one thing thou.... Sherwood, while a half decent player, he isnt worth taking notice of as a coach or pundit.

[The Liquidator]

On 27/01/2021 at 15:39, carefreeluke said:

@The Liquidator Jorginho looked poor defensively, I watched him get bypassed one too many times, their goal was Jorginho's error in the first place, he was completely bypassed by the opposition, God knows what Rudiger was doing though.

I am disappointed in Jorginho performance in most games, but last night he was exploited by the bottom club in the table for most of the match, which as ever left us playing with ten players. What is worse this new manager still hasnt sussed Jorginho and Kovacic should never start a game together. It's painful how the pair waste oppotunities to release forward players quickly when we have comfortable possesion of the ball or allow the players they are up against easy passage through their portion of the pitch. Oh the days of Makelele & Essien.

While 3 points are fine I do feel we again made hard work of an outfit who are not PL standard.

Werner, 7 Spot kicks won & a good number of assits, if he could just finish off a few of the chances that fall his way the above may prove less difficult.

[carefreeluke]

2 hours ago, The Liquidator said:

I am disappointed in Jorginho performance in most games, but last night he was exploited by the bottom club in the table for most of the match, which as ever left us playing with ten players. What is worse this new manager still hasnt sussed Jorginho and Kovacic should never start a game together. It's painful how the pair waste oppotunities to release forward players quickly when we have comfortable possesion of the ball or allow the players they are up against easy passage through their portion of the pitch. Oh the days of Makelele & Essien.

While 3 points are fine I do feel we again made hard work of an outfit who are not PL standard.

Werner, 7 Spot kicks won & a good number of assits, if he could just finish off a few of the chances that fall his way the above may prove less difficult.

I agree mostly on Jorginho and Kovacic, I've been one of the first to complain about them this season but they have looked better under Tuchel but as I've said before we can't rely on them heavily throughout a season.

Werner reminds me a bit of Torres for us at the moment, his first touch and ability to retain possession is poor most of the time, it wasn't exceptional at the start of the season anyway but it definitely wasn't as bad as it is now, might be a confidence thing.

On another note, good to see Tuchel rotating a lot more, Lampard ran a lot of players into the ground which was one of a few things he got wrong for us.

[The Liquidator]

17 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

I agree mostly on Jorginho and Kovacic, I've been one of the first to complain about them this season but they have looked better under Tuchel but as I've said before we can't rely on them heavily throughout a season.

Werner reminds me a bit of Torres for us at the moment, his first touch and ability to retain possession is poor most of the time, it wasn't exceptional at the start of the season anyway but it definitely wasn't as bad as it is now, might be a confidence thing.

On another note, good to see Tuchel rotating a lot more, Lampard ran a lot of players into the ground which was one of a few things he got wrong for us.

Yeah I am in danger of appreciating this manager more than the previous two. I know he was the owners 1st choice to replace Conte which highlights the desperate decision to hire Sarri. Tactics rotation & outstanding dealing with leading questions from the garbage media have all been an upgrade over the previous two managers. Time will tell of course, but there is signs the players believe the change is a good thing.

[Cicero]

I rate Jorginho but I still firmly believe that Gilmour can now only offer the same thing and he is mobile. Something Jorginho isn't. 

[The Liquidator]

Last nights performance reminded me of a trial game. 14 blokes turn up never played together before with no trust in each other. While Barnsley were a credit to their league level & their young manager, it was ours changing formation at half time that was the illuminating fact to come out of the fixture.

Tammy does play well at that level, but CHO, along with many others did not perform good enough. Concerning if true the rumours on Ziyech & Pulisic. I guess time will tell.

[LFCMadLad]

41 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

Last nights performance reminded me of a trial game. 14 blokes turn up never played together before with no trust in each other. While Barnsley were a credit to their league level & their young manager, it was ours changing formation at half time that was the illuminating fact to come out of the fixture.

Tammy does play well at that level, but CHO, along with many others did not perform good enough. Concerning if true the rumours on Ziyech & Pulisic. I guess time will tell.

What rumours?

[The Liquidator]

On 12/02/2021 at 12:43, LFCMadLad said:

What rumours?

They have been well exploited in the media now mate. You going for 4 in a row this weekend?

[The Liquidator]

On 19/02/2021 at 15:44, The Liquidator said:

They have been well exploited in the media now mate. You going for 4 in a row this weekend?

No worries mate I see your answer now, it's four up for Champions. Hell of a record