Chelsea Discussion

[True Blue]

16 hours ago, Spike said:

There is no reason to burn out an 18 year old. 

Burn out? He didn't make a single appearance this season. Last season he made a total of seven, how is that burning out a youngster?

[LFCMadLad]

If there is one club in the world where a youngster won't suffer burn out, it's at Chelsea!

 

[Cicero]

4 hours ago, True Blue said:

Burn out? He didn't make a single appearance this season. Last season he made a total of seven, how is that burning out a youngster?

Very few 17-18 year olds play regularly in top flight football. Even the likes of Messi, Mbappe, and Hazard made 10-15 appearances a season at that age. 

I'm adamant in saying that Ampadu is destined for big things, whether it be with us or at another club. The confidence he has at such a tender age, is a rarity, and it will only continue to grow whilst being with the 1st team vs off on loan. 

Ideal scenario, Ampadu is focused primarily in being utilised as a DM, and becomes Jorginho's understudy. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Cicero

[LFCMadLad]

20 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Very few 17-18 year olds play regularly in top flight football. Even the likes of Messi, Mbappe, and Hazard made 10-15 appearances a season at that age. 

I'm adamant in saying that Ampadu is destined for big things, whether it be with us or at another club. The confidence he has at such a tender age, is a rarity, and it will only continue to grow whilst being with the 1st team vs off on loan. 

Ideal scenario, Ampadu is focused primarily in being utilised as a DM, and becomes Jorginho's understudy. 

I'm not sure he'd want to dedicate all his time on becoming a back up to Jorginho? 

I thought he was predominantly a CB anyway, who had occasionally played as a DM?

[Cicero]

9 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I'm not sure he'd want to dedicate all his time on becoming a back up to Jorginho? 

I thought he was predominantly a CB anyway, who had occasionally played as a DM?

1. Why not? 

2. He's looked more comfortable at CM. Played there under Conte and plays there for the national side. 

[LFCMadLad]

2 hours ago, Cicero said:

1. Why not? 

2. He's looked more comfortable at CM. Played there under Conte and plays there for the national side. 

1. Well he might do, but he might also want to play football regularly and not be a bit part player behind someone he's not likely to dislodge from the first team.

 

2. Ahh fair enough. I'd heard he was predominantly a CB but admittedly I don't known that much about him. 

[True Blue]

Cicero will probably hate me and want me dead but i will post a probably unpopular opinion among the Chelsea fans.

Jorginho was brought in as a deep lying midfielder, his endless records of passing are evident but have they really brought chances / goals? He is pretty poor at defending while he mostly passes the ball in the middle and with our back for, rarely goes for a ball that finds our attack. Okay it is his first few league games, and his debut season in the league i would take that all in account. However is he as good as his stats say? Since i was never a fan of stats they show very little. 

Oh also Kante wouldn't score an empty goal, he needs to be promoted back to his original position and cover our poor defense.

Also no rant at all, i am delighted with our start of the season, just a general opinion.  

[Chaaay AFC]

7 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Cicero will probably hate me and want me dead but i will post a probably unpopular opinion among the Chelsea fans.

Jorginho was brought in as a deep lying midfielder, his endless records of passing are evident but have they really brought chances / goals? He is pretty poor at defending while he mostly passes the ball in the middle and with our back for, rarely goes for a ball that finds our attack. Okay it is his first few league games, and his debut season in the league i would take that all in account. However is he as good as his stats say? Since i was never a fan of stats they show very little. 

Oh also Kante wouldn't score an empty goal, he needs to be promoted back to his original position and cover our poor defense.

Also no rant at all, i am delighted with our start of the season, just a general opinion.  

From what I saw yesterday is all Jorginho has really done is make Kante play out of position. Really what Chelsea really needed was probably another 8 not a 6 from my point of view. Jorginho fits in Sarri's system better than Kante, but Kante is arguably the best defensive midfielder in the world no idea why you would displace him for there. I definitely see where you're coming from.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Chaaay AFC

[Cicero]

@True Blue @Chaaay AFC

Think this misconception needs to be put to bed once and for all.

Kante is not a defensive midfielder and never has been. He is primarily a box to box given the nature of his play. As a footballer, Kante is pretty average, however his ability to win the ball back is at the utmost elite level. There is an uncanny resemblance towards Makelele, however they couldn't be more different. The Mak was exceptional at protecting the back 4 in his own half. Kante is exceptional at winning the ball back at the opposition half. 

This was even the case with Leicester and under Conte. At Leicester, it was Drinkwater that stayed back which allowed Kante to venture further. Under Conte, it was Matic who stayed back. The idea that Kante is some magical protector of the back 4 is fiction. He isn't a player who sits deep and his limitations as a football would be ever so exposed, especially in Sarri's system. 

It is games like West Ham and Newcastle, where the opposition are more than comfortable in sitting back, is where it hurts Kante. There isn't space to expose and by having the ball the majority of the time, his main attribute at winning the ball back is diminished. This is where I feel the likes of Cesc, Barkely, or Reuben Loftus-Cheek would benefit the team more. It is games like City, United, Liverpool, and Spurs where Kante will be primarily needed. 

Jorginho is undoubtedly the player that makes this team tick. We are transitioning into becoming a team that controls games. This hasn't been the case since 2010. He directs our play and the notion that we can simply put Kante there instead of Jorginho is asinine given the difference in attributes. Kante can't lead a transition. Jorginho can. @True Blue You say Jorginho doesn't contribute to goals/chances, yet it is him that allows us to retain such possession in order to create the chances and goals we have scored this season. Just off the top of my head he delivered the pass to Alonso that had Pedro score against Arsenal.  He is also very vocal and vastly intelligent with his play. Wouldn't be surprised if he is captain when Dave is out.

Defensively, the whole team is to blame, not just Jorginho, as the team is still learning how to defend in this NEW system. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Cicero

[The Artful Dodger]

Cicero is American, he doesn't get real football. Remember that he watches 'soccer' with his mates, brad, chad and brock, while sinking a couple of buds with his baseball cap on backwards. He is the worst of the worst. If you disagree with him, you're generally a good person.

Edited September 24, 2018 by The Artful Dodger

[Spike]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Cicero is American, he doesn't get real football. Remember that.

Goddamn, you are a monotonous bigoted cunt, ya know?

[LFCMadLad]

Jorginho is shite and Kante is wasted as a number 8. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Just now, Spike said:

Goddamn, you are a monotonous bigoted cunt, ya know?

If I wind up plastics like you, I'll always enjoy it.

[Spike]

Just now, The Artful Dodger said:

If I wind up plastics like you, I'll always enjoy it.

Pretty poor reasoning to be insufferable. You must be  fun person to be friends with, always sour and moaning. Feel sorry for the people that housed you for 18 years.

[Carnivore Chris]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

Goddamn, you are a monotonous bigoted cunt, ya know?

 

To be fair, that comment was hilarious. The Brad, Chad and Brock had me.

 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Just now, Spike said:

Pretty poor reasoning to be insufferable. You must be  fun person to be friends with, always sour and moaning. Feel sorry for the people that housed you for 18 years.

I don't like people like you and cicero, plastic football fans with nothing to do with the clubs they pretend to support. You kill our game and I hate you, what's wrong with me being honest?

I'm a boss night out lad, I just dislike people like you. Sorry if that upsets you.

[Spike]

Just now, The Rebel CRS said:

 

To be fair, that comment was hilarious. The Brad, Chad and Brock had me.

 

 

He edited that in.

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I don't like people like you and cicero, plastic football fans with nothing to do with the clubs they pretend to support. You kill our game and I hate you, what's wrong with me being honest?

I'm a boss night out lad, I just dislike people like you. Sorry if that upsets you.

And I hate general hypocrites that moan about the 'right thing' and turn around and spout bigoted shite about an entire population of people.  You're a cunt that assumes he is right because of where you are from, completely disconnected from the real world and happily blame all your problems on others when in fact it was your countrymen that sold out your footballing culture. You're a pathetic specimen. Wake up and smell the shit on ypur knees, Nigel.

I'm sure the boys get real rowdy when you finish bashing paki and gay heads in, aye.  Pathetic rating your quality in nights out. Grow up

Edited September 24, 2018 by Spike

[LFCMadLad]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

And I hate general hypocrites that moan about the 'right thing' and turn around and spout bigoted shite about an entire population of people.  You're a cunt that assumes he is right because of where you are from, completely disconnected from the real world and happily blame all your problems on others when in fact it was your countrymen that sold out your footballing culture. You're a pathetic specimen. Wake up and smell the shit on ypur knees, Nigel.

I'm sure the boys get real rowdy when you finish bashing paki and gay heads in, aye. 

Nigel 

[Cicero]

The practice I work for  is owned by a man named Brock

Anyway, Rudiger injury not that serious and should be expected back at the weekend. Pedro still a coin toss. 

[Danny]

From what I've seen of Chelsea I agree with Brock, Chelsea play a possession based game of football and they needed a midfielder to help implement that. Jorginho keeps the ball moving, orders teammates around to what Sarri wants. He is Sarri's General on the pitch.

To say statistics show very little is wrong though, you just don't know how to read them/find their importance within a match. Which is fine. But people are creatures of habit and statistics pick up habits on a football pitch.

[Cicero]

We've created the second most chances in the league according to Squawka, and a large part of that is our ability to control the game, to which Jorginho is the main reason why we are able to do so. 

We just have issues putting them away. And even then, we still are tied for second for goals scored 

[True Blue]

15 hours ago, Cicero said:

@True Blue @Chaaay AFC

Think this misconception needs to be put to bed once and for all.

Kante is not a defensive midfielder and never has been. He is primarily a box to box given the nature of his play. As a footballer, Kante is pretty average, however his ability to win the ball back is at the utmost elite level. There is an uncanny resemblance towards Makelele, however they couldn't be more different. The Mak was exceptional at protecting the back 4 in his own half. Kante is exceptional at winning the ball back at the opposition half. 

This was even the case with Leicester and under Conte. At Leicester, it was Drinkwater that stayed back which allowed Kante to venture further. Under Conte, it was Matic who stayed back. The idea that Kante is some magical protector of the back 4 is fiction. He isn't a player who sits deep and his limitations as a football would be ever so exposed, especially in Sarri's system. 

It is games like West Ham and Newcastle, where the opposition are more than comfortable in sitting back, is where it hurts Kante. There isn't space to expose and by having the ball the majority of the time, his main attribute at winning the ball back is diminished. This is where I feel the likes of Cesc, Barkely, or Reuben Loftus-Cheek would benefit the team more. It is games like City, United, Liverpool, and Spurs where Kante will be primarily needed. 

Jorginho is undoubtedly the player that makes this team tick. We are transitioning into becoming a team that controls games. This hasn't been the case since 2010. He directs our play and the notion that we can simply put Kante there instead of Jorginho is asinine given the difference in attributes. Kante can't lead a transition. Jorginho can. @True Blue You say Jorginho doesn't contribute to goals/chances, yet it is him that allows us to retain such possession in order to create the chances and goals we have scored this season. Just off the top of my head he delivered the pass to Alonso that had Pedro score against Arsenal.  He is also very vocal and vastly intelligent with his play. Wouldn't be surprised if he is captain when Dave is out.

Defensively, the whole team is to blame, not just Jorginho, as the team is still learning how to defend in this NEW system. 

 

 

I didn't actually blame him for our defensive errors, as we are overall poor at the back. I just think the system isn't ideal for every player in the team which would be impossible. Still early days and i hope we just keep improving which i am certain we will. Even in the defensive area, and for the love of God i hope we heavily rotate.

[True Blue]

11 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I don't like people like you and cicero, plastic football fans with nothing to do with the clubs they pretend to support. You kill our game and I hate you, what's wrong with me being honest?

I'm a boss night out lad, I just dislike people like you. Sorry if that upsets you.

I am offended that you didn't mention me in the plastic football fan cycle, think i will report you for that.

However seriously you hate someone for supporting a foreign club? Bit too much for my taste, but each to their own.

[carefreeluke]

Adding to what Cicero said.

There has been a lot of fans saying this about Kanté after the West Ham game.

For me when I watch Kanté for France as a defensive midfielder, he does a good job in that position but for me it sort of limits his athleticism which is one of his best assets. His athleticism is useful for the counter but more importantly in the pressing stage. When we're talking about him playing the traditional role of a defensive midfielder, imagine a scenario where the team is relatively deeper and he's tasked with the job of nicking the ball from the opposition in front of the defence and picking up runs etc. I actually think his positional play and concentration when performing this role at times can come into question, not to say he's bad at it, he still does it well but it's not his best asset. In fact, I can actually think of many occasions where he's been at fault in this area. Whilst this area was more Makélélé's bread and butter and it's how they differ as players. Kanté's best work for me comes when he's given more licence to press and most of his best tackles and interceptions come normally as a by-product of his superior level of athleticism.

In my opinion there's no way you can have Kanté moved to Jorginho's position. We simply need someone with Jorginho's ability on the ball there for Sarri's style to function at full speed and power. Jorginho seemed to get a lot of stick for his performance against West Ham but for me he was easily our best player. For me in football there's a lot more than what meets the eye when it comes to a player's performance. Jorginho's passing firstly created some of our best chances that day but it was more the mentality at which he played at. He was always playing at the right speed and always looking to do the right things on the ball, personally a lot of the time I can forgive a player's performance if I see them conducting themselves with the right mindset and that's what he did for me on Sunday. His passing and overall game at times was not vintage Jorginho in terms of accuracy etc but it's impossible to expect perfection every game. The most important thing was his mentality and anyway as well a lot of his passing created some of our best chances that day and it also allowed the other players to find space in between the lines. If the other players were playing at Jorginho's tempo maybe we would have had a better result.

There are two reasons why I think Chelsea fans are demanding this change with Kanté. The first is Kanté’s limitations in attack in a more advanced role. I personally don’t think he’s that bad in an attacking sense, he’s isn’t great but I personally think come the end of the season he’ll have a fair share of goals to his name. There’ll perhaps be certain times during a game where we may need to switch him with someone who has a more attacking threat but for the most part I think he’s OK. But more importantly, I think some of Kante’s burden here needs to lay more on Kovacic’s shoulders, the most attacking player of the midfield three. I think that some of the Chelsea fans’ concerns in this area with regards to Kanté need to be directed a little more towards Kovacic.

One of the reservations I had about Kovacic was his numbers, he needs a bit more output, in terms of purely goals, key passes etc. Kovacic has demonstrated that he’s very good technically on the ball, has some nice combination and link up play with some of the players around him and is doing a lot of good work for others in the team. However, I would like to see him be more decisive in the attacking third. At Real Madrid he played in every midfield role possible but now he’s arguably playing in his best position, if this isn’t, it’s the one position Kanté is taking up at the moment. At Real Madrid there was always this doubt of where was his best position? And for me when I previously used to watch him, I always thought who is Kovavic as a player? Yes, we know some of the things he’s good at but what’s he true footballing identity? For me we’ve still yet to truly discover that and for that reason it’s going to be very interesting to see how he develops this season.

The second reason why Chelsea fans are wanting Kanté to change back to a defensive midfield role is that we’re finding ourselves at times a lot more open compared to last season. Firstly, this is in part down to a well-documented change in playing style and a natural consequence of that is that we’re going to find ourselves at times having some more problems defensively. Nevertheless, more notably these defensive problems are normally down to something else going wrong elsewhere.

I like to view formations and playing styles like a fully functional working machine. What we’re seeing as Chelsea supporters under Sarri in certain moments is the team being quite open, stretched and the team with a lack of compactness lacking adequate protection for its back four. We find ourselves in this position at times when the opposition counters or in other scenarios when our pressing and positional play isn’t up to scratch. For me the majority of it is not down to not playing Kanté in his natural position, it’s down to something going wrong earlier on in the functioning of the machine. Why do Pep’s teams at their best never get countered that much? It’s because they stop it at source. Pep’s essentials are counter pressing and positional play and this is what stops his teams for the most part looking too vulnerable defensively. This is exactly Sarri’s aims as well. And we’re finding these problems because something has gone wrong in our pressing, concentration and positional play earlier on. People are just seeing our back four coming under pressure and the team looking open. But what happened in the moments before this? How did we get ourselves in these situations? It doesn’t just happen.

Pep wants complete control of a football match and Sarri is very much the same. For me with Kanté playing in this different position we’re just using his strengths defensively in a different area of the pitch. His athleticism and positioning are vital to the counter pressing and scenarios above which allow us to regain possession quickly.

Finally, you’ve also got to ask yourself, does the role of a traditional defensive midfielder (which a lot of the time Kanté gets solely associated with) exist in a Sarri system? The answer is not really.