Chelsea Discussion

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Compelling argument. DIAHF

Love how he defends Barkley by stating its only two games, yet is so quick to criticise Jorginho and thinks he needs to be moved out of position in favor of Kante. 

Also funny this is now the third time he's brought up Barkley's "pass" to set up Alonso's penalty against Huddersfield, but has yet to acknowledge the brilliant ball  Jorginho played to Alonso that set up Pedro's goal against Arsenal. That and the fact he is much more instrumental for us than Barkley. 

Agenda? 

 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

Love how he defends Barkley by stating its only two games, yet is so quick to criticise Jorginho and thinks he needs to be moved out of position in favor of Kante. 

Also funny this is now the third time he's brought up Barkley's "pass" to set up Alonso's penalty against Huddersfield, but has yet to acknowledge the brilliant ball  Jorginho played to Alonso that set up Pedro's goal against Arsenal. That and the fact he is much more instrumental for us than Barkley. 

Agenda? 

 

Also no argument for the fundamental tactical differences or similarities between ‘midfield aggressors’ and ‘holding midfielders’; just one word followed a punctuation mark and another dime-a-dozen condescending remark. Really riveting reading; makes the fellows at ‘the shed end forums’ proud.

Reminds me of people pidgeonholing Essien as a holding mid as well.

[RandoEFC+]

47 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

Thanks for the great info and taking the time to write it. The tough love you speak of, is it the opinion of the Everton fans he left Everton because of the lack of Love at that time?

That was certainly the feeling of many at the time, and when Koeman left before the January transfer window, there was a reaction of well maybe that means Barkley could stay after all. Unsworth publicly said he'd try and convince him to stay but obviously he nor Allardyce were able to.

It's unclear whether Koemans influence ended up having an impact or not. It's a theory that had Koemans managed him differently he'd have signed a new contract and never gone on the cheap in his last year. Another popular theory is that Barkley isn't the brightest spark and pretty much did what his agent wanted him to do which was to take the better pay packet at Chelsea and delay the transfer until January due to his injury to save Chelsea some money and allow Ross and the agent a bigger cut. I don't know which it is to be honest.

[The Liquidator]

33 minutes ago, Spike said:

Compelling argument. DIAHF

No argument Spike, your entitled to your football opinion. Wont trouble you again

Enjoy the season

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

No argument Spike, your entitled to your football opinion. Wont trouble you again

Enjoy the season

Same to you ~ 

[carefreeluke]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

That was certainly the feeling of many at the time, and when Koeman left before the January transfer window, there was a reaction of well maybe that means Barkley could stay after all. Unsworth publicly said he'd try and convince him to stay but obviously he nor Allardyce were able to.

It's unclear whether Koemans influence ended up having an impact or not. It's a theory that had Koemans managed him differently he'd have signed a new contract and never gone on the cheap in his last year. Another popular theory is that Barkley isn't the brightest spark and pretty much did what his agent wanted him to do which was to take the better pay packet at Chelsea and delay the transfer until January due to his injury to save Chelsea some money and allow Ross and the agent a bigger cut. I don't know which it is to be honest.

I get this impression from him as well for some reason on and off the pitch. 

4 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

He came into the team as your typical prospect, fearless and dangerous but unreliable and inconsistent. His problem was that several managers tried to mould the rough diamond into a midfielder you can build a team around.

Moyes' idea was to loan him out as soon as he made one costly mistake in the first team which ruined his confidence and he ended up not even getting a game for Sheffield Wednesday.

Martinez' idea was to give Ross trust and freedom. This saw him flourish in an attacking role for one season when we were flying forward with Lukaku, Deulofeu, Baines and Coleman but then when the team struggled in the next two years he didn't take responsibility and instead went missing most of the time and showed no ability to take a game by the scruff of the neck which was what we needed from him and by this time he's edging toward his mid 20s and still playing a bit like the new kid on the block.

Koeman tried to turn Ross from the boy into the man with a bit of tough love. It sort of worked, he became more consistent and made less mistakes, but his attacking output was also far less, he made fewer things happen, while the likes of Alli, Loftus-Cheek and Oxlade-Chamberlain have usurped him in the England manager's thinking.

You can make excuses for Barkley in that he's had so many different managers, had a major injury when he was just breaking onto the scene which saw him miss a year, and another write off season last year at a really costly point in his career. However, for a player who broke into our first team squad about six years ago, he just hasn't developed enough. When he was 18 he was a raw talent with huge potential that demonstrated poor decision making and inconsistent output on the pitch. As far as I can see, now, at nearly 25, he's a raw talent who makes poor decisions on the pitch and generally gets accused of having poor football intelligence. For me a really good player makes more progress than that and he's the type of player who will continue to tread water unless he hits the jackpot with a manager that can strike the right chord with him in a way that no previous manager has.

My guess is that Barkley will continue to play 'not bad' for Chelsea and the fans will continue to give him time until they suffer a few more difficult results, realise he isn't that much of a game changer to be playing for a top six club that wants to challenge for major honours and identify that spot in the team as an area in which they need more quality. Sarri is meant to be a top class coach though so maybe he's the man to change the story.

This is my standpoint more or less. I also think Kovacic's arrival doesn't do him any favours either but we'll see.

[Guest]

What's the deal with sarri and the cigarettes? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

Also no argument for the fundamental tactical differences or similarities between ‘midfield aggressors’ and ‘holding midfielders’; just one word followed a punctuation mark and another dime-a-dozen condescending remark. Really riveting reading; makes the fellows at ‘the shed end forums’ proud.

Reminds me of people pidgeonholing Essien as a holding mid as well.

Whenever people did that, I suspected that they either hardly ever watched any football... or just didn't really understand football.

[Spike]

51 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

What's the deal with sarri and the cigarettes? 

Smokes 80 a day and allows his synapses to synapse at a faster rate than a normal humans allowing for superior tactics. Literally to smart for football.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, carefreeluke said:

I get this impression from him as well for some reason on and off the pitch. 

I mean... I can understand why you'd get that impression by watching him on the pitch. He doesn't have great football intelligence, in fact, it's why a lot of Evertonians thought he wasn't developing very well. Raw attribute wise, he's got it all - it's the mental aspects of reading the game where he'd sometimes let Everton down - some of those performances that @RandoEFC was mentioning where he's now in his mid-20s and playing like he's the new kid on the block.

I think if his ability to read the game matched his physical attributes, he'd be a great midfielder. Right now he's just a good midfielder. Having said that, being a good midfielder is still better than being an average or above-average midfielder... so it's not like he's not got quality to bring to Chelsea.

Personally, I think he's still got time to develop. Injuries and managers trying to turn him into different sort of players may have stunted his development and he maybe won't ever be the player he "should" have been - football intelligence is something that comes with experience in playing in your role. He's a player who's had many different roles in a short span of time and never really got to settle into one particular midfield role IMO. There's no reason that he can't end up with a defined role for him to grow into and with experience grow into a very very good, maybe even great midfielder.

4 minutes ago, Spike said:

Smokes 80 a day and allows his synapses to synapse at a faster rate than a normal humans allowing for superior tactics. Literally to smart for football.

Did the club build him a room to smoke in?

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I mean... I can understand why you'd get that impression by watching him on the pitch. He doesn't have great football intelligence, in fact, it's why a lot of Evertonians thought he wasn't developing very well. Raw attribute wise, he's got it all - it's the mental aspects of reading the game where he'd sometimes let Everton down - some of those performances that @RandoEFC was mentioning where he's now in his mid-20s and playing like he's the new kid on the block.

I think if his ability to read the game matched his physical attributes, he'd be a great midfielder. Right now he's just a good midfielder. Having said that, being a good midfielder is still better than being an average or above-average midfielder... so it's not like he's not got quality to bring to Chelsea.

Personally, I think he's still got time to develop. Injuries and managers trying to turn him into different sort of players may have stunted his development and he maybe won't ever be the player he "should" have been - football intelligence is something that comes with experience in playing in your role. He's a player who's had many different roles in a short span of time and never really got to settle into one particular midfield role IMO. There's no reason that he can't end up with a defined role for him to grow into and with experience grow into a very very good, maybe even great midfielder.

Did the club build him a room to smoke in?

I believe they did and even on the touchline

[Danny]

Chelsea need to make Kante a DM

[Cicero]

11 hours ago, Danny said:

Chelsea need to make Kante a DM

[The Liquidator]

19 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

That was certainly the feeling of many at the time, and when Koeman left before the January transfer window, there was a reaction of well maybe that means Barkley could stay after all. Unsworth publicly said he'd try and convince him to stay but obviously he nor Allardyce were able to.

It's unclear whether Koemans influence ended up having an impact or not. It's a theory that had Koemans managed him differently he'd have signed a new contract and never gone on the cheap in his last year. Another popular theory is that Barkley isn't the brightest spark and pretty much did what his agent wanted him to do which was to take the better pay packet at Chelsea and delay the transfer until January due to his injury to save Chelsea some money and allow Ross and the agent a bigger cut. I don't know which it is to be honest.

I have seen Barkley interviewed on Chelsea TV a number of times and he comes over as a genuine nice lad who wants to do well for the club. While I admit he isnt Frank Lampard between the ears (very few are) I believe there is a chance he could become a lesser version of Frank on the pitch, something our club are crying out for.

Again thank you RandoEFC for all the time you have put in offering us great insight on Barkley.

[Cicero]

16 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Whenever people did that, I suspected that they either hardly ever watched any football... or just didn't really understand football.

Essien at RB still gives me nightmares 

[The Liquidator]

Martin Odegaard Real Madrid's Norwegian teenager joins Vitesse Arnhem on loan.

I wonder if they had to get permission from us to take him on?

All joking aside, an interesting third loan move for the boy, 3 years after signing for Madrid. Makes you wonder if they will be accused of the same bullshit we get accused of when we send young players on loan.

[True Blue]

He was the next big thing but went off the map completely.

Kenneth Omerou is the latest loaned player, he will spend next season on loan at Leganes. Currently at 31 on loan, with Piazon, Kalas etc still without a new team.

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by True Blue

[LFCMadLad]

11 hours ago, The Liquidator said:

Martin Odegaard Real Madrid's Norwegian teenager joins Vitesse Arnhem on loan.

I wonder if they had to get permission from us to take him on?

All joking aside, an interesting third loan move for the boy, 3 years after signing for Madrid. Makes you wonder if they will be accused of the same bullshit we get accused of when we send young players on loan.

What bullshit? You have 31 players on loan ffs 

[True Blue]

4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

What bullshit? You have 31 players on loan ffs 

[The Liquidator]

3 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

What bullshit? You have 31 players on loan ffs 

Thx ~ Your post is an example of the Bullshit 

[The Liquidator]

I had forgotten all about Nathan ~ I wonder how he has been doing?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Turns out its not been going well 

Edited August 22, 2018 by The Liquidator
update

[The Liquidator]

Tammy said to be chewing over a season loan to Villa. Buzz was he would only consider another PL loan. Looks like there hasnt been any takers although Newcastle are said to have sounded out Chelsea before the Kennedy loan. Villa a great club for him, hope he makes the correct decision for himself.

Well see what happens

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by The Liquidator

[Cicero]

Send Piazon to Spain .Reckon he could do well there. Think at this point Kalas's price won't get any higher. Should sell at this point. 

[carefreeluke]

Alonso is creating a lot of space for others as he joins to make numbers in the box which also allows Hazard more space to roam while on the other side Pedro stays wider. No wonder Alonso is one of the highest scoring defenders in Europe with the roles he's played since joining us.

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Alonso is creating a lot of space for others as he joins to make numbers in the box which also allows Hazard more space to roam while on the other side Pedro stays wider. No wonder Alonso is one of the highest scoring defenders in Europe with the roles he's played since joining us.

You notice that Kovacic stays back when he does? Has to be part of the instructions. Sarri must really like Alonso, and aside the defensive criticism, he looks a lot more suited in a possession minded side. Less exposure defensively. 

There is then the question of Emerson. He must really not impress during training.