American Politics Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

Any relation to this guy, by any chance?...

Nah he looks more sickly tbh: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/03/madison-cawthorn-25-elected-to-be-youngest-member-of-congress-433992

He’s not a pleasant guy tbh:

Cawthorn has been scorned on the left for his inflammatory rhetoric. A website launched by his campaign used racist language, and a since-deleted Instagram post showed him visiting the vacation home of Adolf Hitler, whom Cawthorn referred to as "the Fuhrer." Cawthorn also came under fire for historical inaccuracies in his speech at the Republican National Convention, where he also spoke about overcoming a 2014 car crash that left him paralyzed below the waist.

 

[Eco]

36 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Why would people come out to vote Trump? I’m talking about these people that have never voted before? I can understand people saying “yeah, I know I didn’t vote before but fuck 4 years of this shit”. However, it seems to be “Hey, I didn’t care last time, but now I really do want to get dicked over!”

Okay, so I'll try to give my explanation of why votes, particularly new voters, would go with Trump. 

People believe that international organizations in which US are in involved in, screw over our country as we typically are left with bills for said organizations. Trump ran on the platform of getting out of all organizations and agreements that he believes are best for America. 

Before Covid, our economy was absolutely booming. My stocks were through the roof, business was better than ever, and people were happy and had jobs. While that has changed with Covid, it still is in the minds that people don't blame Trump for Covid, and remember was it was like before the pandemic. 

Trump and the Republican party align very strongly with Catholics and the very religious party. They don't believe abortions or the death penalty should be legal, so on a spiritual front, a lot of people (like my Mom), vote Republican for this reason. 

Republicans also believe in the Right to Bear Arms and stricter immigration, both of which Trump has believed in and so that is why Republicans usually win the southern and midwestern states (which are where the most guns are). 

Republicans believe in less debt, smaller government, and typically have nightmares of socialism or communism, which Trump has taken advantage of by aligning Hillary and now Biden with socialism which has clearly hurt the Democrats from getting the undecided voters. 

And whether or not you believe it's true or should be true, a lot of Americans believe we are the greatest and strongest country in the world, and years of Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc, where we basically played the nice guy in the world, led to many countries taking advantage of us. Trump is the exact opposite and has brought this nationalist view of is us against the world and a lot of people have rallied behind it. 

[Tommy]

Michigan has just turned blue for now.  

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, Eco said:

Completely unfair there. 

Is it? I don’t mean to be offensive to your or your family, but you’ve basically just described the voting mentality I had in my mind after when I posted that.

[Eco]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well I’d probably have to get a divorce as well, so it’s not exactly a decision I’m taking lightly.

It’s being strongly considered though.

I think America should be more ashamed of the senate. That there hasn’t been a widespread rejection of Trumpism means this is America’s right wing for the foreseeable future.

Their next president will be someone like Tom Cotton. As repugnant as Trump, but actually competent.

Again, if you want to take about Far-Right people in congress, I can offer you MANY Far-Left crazies in the congress. It really does go both ways and there are a lot of people in Washington who won their seat by being extreme. I don't understand it, but it'd be ignorant that it doesn't exist. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Eco said:

Again, if you want to take about Far-Right people in congress, I can offer you MANY Far-Left crazies in the congress. It really does go both ways and there are a lot of people in Washington who won their seat by being extreme. I don't understand it, but it'd be ignorant that it doesn't exist. 

Do any of the far-left crazies talk about Stalin like the way the right talks about Hitler?

[Eco]

3 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Michigan has just turned blue for now.  

Game over if it stays. If Biden keeps Wisconsin, AZ, and Nevada, then Trump will not win re-election. 

[nudge+]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nah he looks more sickly tbh: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/03/madison-cawthorn-25-elected-to-be-youngest-member-of-congress-433992

He’s not a pleasant guy tbh:

Cawthorn has been scorned on the left for his inflammatory rhetoric. A website launched by his campaign used racist language, and a since-deleted Instagram post showed him visiting the vacation home of Adolf Hitler, whom Cawthorn referred to as "the Fuhrer." Cawthorn also came under fire for historical inaccuracies in his speech at the Republican National Convention, where he also spoke about overcoming a 2014 car crash that left him paralyzed below the waist.

 

It does sound extremely like Dr. Strangelove  The current reality is truly stranger than fiction.

[Eco]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do any of the far-left crazies talk about Stalin like the way the right talks about Hitler?

Simple and honest answer is, I don't know. I watch a lot of CNN since it's based in Atlanta, and I read Politico, Reuters, and some other new sources, and media loves talking about the crazies, so I'm not really sure who biased they are in just calling out the crazy rights. 

So maybe they don't, maybe they do, but I am not really confident enough in the media to be completely unbiased on such views. 

[DeadLinesman]

6 minutes ago, Eco said:

And whether or not you believe it's true or should be true, a lot of Americans believe we are the greatest and strongest country in the world, and years of Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc, where we basically played the nice guy in the world, led to many countries taking advantage of us. Trump is the exact opposite and has brought this nationalist view of is us against the world and a lot of people have rallied behind it. 

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. Which is what Trump has essentially done with Americans. He certainly seems to be in the pocket of Putin for such a nationalist.

[Eco]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Is it? I don’t mean to be offensive to your or your family, but you’ve basically just the voting mentality I had in my mind after when I posted that.

Very much so. 

If you think abortion is the murder of unborn babies, and this is something you believe in very strongly, then I'm not sure how you could ever vote democratic, regardless of the candidate. 

If you have very strong emotions towards gun control, then you are likely to vote democratic, regardless of the candidate. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

Very much so. 

If you think abortion is the murder of unborn babies, and this is something you believe in very strongly, then I'm not sure how you could ever vote democratic, regardless of the candidate. 

If you have very strong emotions towards gun control, then you are likely to vote democratic, regardless of the candidate. 

Ugh don’t get me started on single issue voters 

[Eco]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. Which is what Trump has essentially done with Americans. He certainly seems to be in the pocket of Putin for such a nationalist.

Have you every read Master and Margarita? This bolded part made me instantly think of that book. 

But you are also assuming that Americans don't secretly like Putin and his 'strong stance' and extreme nationalistic views. 

[Eco]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Ugh don’t get me started on single issue voters 

I dumbed it down, as I'm not talking about single issue voters. 

My Father-in-Law will ALWAYS vote republican, and we have talked about this a ton of times. Why? Because he believes in a smaller government, is a small business owner, thinks there should be no regulations on guns, thinks abortion is murder, and believes that he should have complete control of his health care and that it should be forced on him. 

Does he like Trump? I don't think so, but he will never vote Democratic. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, Eco said:

Simple and honest answer is, I don't know. I watch a lot of CNN since it's based in Atlanta, and I read Politico, Reuters, and some other new sources, and media loves talking about the crazies, so I'm not really sure who biased they are in just calling out the crazy rights. 

So maybe they don't, maybe they do, but I am not really confident enough in the media to be completely unbiased on such views. 

I mean, in my (admittedly biased Merseysider eyes) I think American media is actually more right leaning than left leaning... you don’t think a prominent political candidate praising Stalin wouldn’t get some coverage?

I find it weird the idea of equating shite like socialised medicine (radical in the US) with white nationalism (radical everywhere, you’d hope at least).

[RandoEFC+]

It's astonishing how many voters both the Republicans and Conservatives in the UK still manage to keep on side because they're "the party of Christianity" when in reality it's the Democrats and Labour parties who want to do things like feed starving children and provide access to healthcare to those who can't afford the extortionate costs of it for themselves. It's almost as if they're using religion as an excuse to vote for an "I'm Alright, Jack" party that basically allows them to be more selfish but who am I to say. 

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I mean, in my (admittedly biased Merseysider eyes) I think American media is actually more right leaning than left leaning... you don’t think a prominent political candidate praising Stalin wouldn’t get some coverage?

I find it weird the idea of equating shite like socialised medicine (radical in the US) with white nationalism (radical everywhere, you’d hope at least).

I think most media here is likely more left leaning, but the right leaning media outlets are typically extreme (ie. Fox). I tried to watch Fox last night to get their view, but had to turn it of as it was so incredibly biased. 

CNN is clearly left but I think they do a good job of getting people from the Right on and giving them the respect for their opinions, which isn't really the case with Fox. 

And I agree with socialism. I'm still shocked when I get these gasps from people when I tell them that I lived in China for few years, asking me questions about how did I survive communism. Personally, I just don't mask my answer anymore and just say that I thought it was absolutely brilliant and loved it. 

Just now, RandoEFC said:

It's astonishing how many voters both the Republicans and Conservatives in the UK still manage to keep on side because they're "the party of Christianity" when in reality it's the Democrats and Labour parties who want to do things like feed starving children and provide access to healthcare to those who can't afford the extortionate costs of it for themselves. It's almost as if they're using religion as an excuse to vote for an "I'm Alright, Jack" party that basically allows them to be more selfish but who am I to say. 

I said this exact thing to my Mom. I asked her that isn't giving to the needy in the Bible? Because that's what the democrats are all about. 

I think what hardcore conservatives would say that they should be able to give their money on their terms, to the organization(s) that align most with their view. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

I dumbed it down, as I'm not talking about single issue voters. 

My Father-in-Law will ALWAYS vote republican, and we have talked about this a ton of times. Why? Because he believes in a smaller government, is a small business owner, thinks there should be no regulations on guns, thinks abortion is murder, and believes that he should have complete control of his health care and that it should be forced on him. 

Does he like Trump? I don't think so, but he will never vote Democratic. 

I mean I think one thing your father and I probably agree on is that the US government should have as little power as possible. And the state governments should be more free to do what they want without so much oversight from the federal government. I’d much rather pay the state more and the IRS less, when it comes to Taxes.

And clearly with how divided Americans are, it’d certainly make things better and more amicable politically if the rest of the US had to deal with each other way less.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Nevada has narrowed, but it has been confirmed that the only votes left to be counted are (likely to be heavily Democratic) postal votes. Biden will hold onto those 6 votes.

Biden is currently a bit ahead in Wisconsin and a bit behind in Michigan. Michigan is closing. They're a lot closer to finishing the count in Wisconsin than Michigan. In fact, apparently Michigan is more of a sure thing than Wisconsin as the postal votes are the ones that need to be counted and so far they've been roughly 70-30 in Biden's favour. Biden is therefore likely to end up with both Michigan and Wisconsin, which along with Nevada would put him on 270, with the 4th and final electoral college vote from Maine going his way to take him over that halfway point.

Pennsylvania is the hardest one to call. Trump leads by 700,000 votes but one third of the votes are yet to be counted. Again, these are mostly coming from the likes of Philadelphia and are votes cast before Election Day, so should heavily favour Biden, but that's a massive gap to make up and there doesn't seem to be any clear consensus on which way this goes yet.

Trump will win Alaska, no question. He has a narrow lead in North Carolina and Georgia with most of the votes counted. Georgia is heading towards Biden but the ballots are running out and opinion is split on who is the slight favourite. North Carolina probably stays red. Georgia seems to be 50-50. Again, this one is hugely damaging to Trump as it starts to give Biden quite a decent electoral college majority along with the popular vote which looks like it'll just top 50% by the end.

I've just discovered why the three key states Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, are counting the early and postal votes after the Election Day polls closed unlike many other places which called a lot earlier than them. Well apparently the Republicans changed the law in these states so that these votes, which are likely to heavily favour Biden, would be counted last. This enables Trump to peddle this easily disprovable nonsense about these perfectly legitimate votes "appearing out of thin air" when usually they would have been counted earlier and given Biden (if he's won those states) a massive lead that Trump wouldn't have had enough votes to overcome. 10/10 to the Republicans for identifying this incredibly narrow route to victory, or at least the Supreme Court. 0/10 to the Republicans though for having any respect for democracy.

In summary, fuck me, this is about as close as it can get, and it's absolute madness.

This is way less close than Bush vs Gore. Bush win Florida and therefore the entire election by 156 votes

Regarding how close it is don't forget Clinton lost by losing Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania by less than 70k combined. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

It's astonishing how many voters both the Republicans and Conservatives in the UK still manage to keep on side because they're "the party of Christianity" when in reality it's the Democrats and Labour parties who want to do things like feed starving children and provide access to healthcare to those who can't afford the extortionate costs of it for themselves. It's almost as if they're using religion as an excuse to vote for an "I'm Alright, Jack" party that basically allows them to be more selfish but who am I to say. 

Jesus would just be considered an unwashed socialist to many of these people if they ever met him

[Burning Gold]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do any of the far-left crazies talk about Stalin like the way the right talks about Hitler?

Does it have to be Stalin? Bernie Sanders spoke about Castro in rather glowing terms quite recently.

Coincidentally, the Cuban vote in Miami may have just won Florida for Trump

[Eco]

Just now, Burning Gold said:

Does it have to be Stalin? Bernie Sanders spoke about Castro in rather glowing terms quite recently.

Coincidentally, the Cuban vote in Miami may have just won Florida for Trump

Yeah, I think what killed Biden in Florida (which he really didn't have much of a chance with anyways), is that Trump really spent a lot of time and energy telling Cuban-Americans in Miami that Biden was a socialist, and that appears to have worked. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Does it have to be Stalin? Bernie Sanders spoke about Castro in rather glowing terms quite recently.

Coincidentally, the Cuban vote in Miami may have just won Florida for Trump

Fair point. I didn’t ever think Florida would go for Biden though, and I’m not sure his campaign did either

[Eco]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Fair point. I didn’t ever think Florida would go for Biden though, and I’m not sure his campaign did either

Yeah, didn't think it would go Blue. 

I was thinking that if it did, it could be simply the fact that Trump is viewed as handling Covid so poorly, and Florida has the largest amount of elderly people who are the most likely to die from Covid. 

Turns out, it didn't matter and it remains Red. 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Eco said:

Certainly agree. Trump still has the monologue of not being a 'politician'. 

And while I certainly like Biden and believe he'll be elected when it's said and done, I think the Liberals played the wrong hand (as they did with Hillary) as Obama was very polarizing here so picking his VP scare a lot of middle-of-the-road voters. 

This extreme right vs extreme left is incredibly frustrating and really is dividing this country.  

Mate Biden Obama and Clinton aren't very left wing, if you placed them into Australian politics they may even sit in our conservative party... The Sanders/AOC wing of the Dems is quite extreme but the establishment Dems have not been giving much ground to them.