American Politics Discussion

[Waylander]

15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But I think a bigger issue with corruption in the United States is the unfettered amount of lobbyist money that "influences" (which really should say "bribes") lawmakers - it is why both parties in America, aside from the societal distraction issues - are pretty firmly in the pocket of corporate interests. It's why billionaires keep getting massive taxbreaks while the working poor and middle class are asked to fund the US government.

I agree with this and think there are similarities here though not on the same scale.

I only post the Biden one as I think they get an easy ride in the media.

I didn't like Corbyn yet did not believe he was either corrupt or anti-Semitic yet the media witch-hunt was in full swing until he stepped down.

 

 

 

[Stan]

23 minutes ago, Waylander said:

I only post the Biden one as I think they get an easy ride in the media.

I didn't like Corbyn yet did not believe he was either corrupt or anti-Semitic yet the media witch-hunt was in full swing until he stepped down.

Do you not think Trump brought on a lot of the bluster just because of how many times he was just making outlandish extraordinary statements or actions? Like mocking a disabled person at a promo event? 

Made a rod for his own back most of the time. He's a narcissist. Loves all the attention on him and nothing else. Hence out of that, there's always going to be a lot of media attention on him. Biden doesn't really have the same pull (a good thing in my eyes). Biden doesn't strike me as someone who will flog a dead cat just to distract. Trump was an expert in doing so. 

[Waylander]

8 hours ago, Stan said:

Do you not think Trump brought on a lot of the bluster just because of how many times he was just making outlandish extraordinary statements or actions? Like mocking a disabled person at a promo event? 

Made a rod for his own back most of the time. He's a narcissist. Loves all the attention on him and nothing else. Hence out of that, there's always going to be a lot of media attention on him. Biden doesn't really have the same pull (a good thing in my eyes). Biden doesn't strike me as someone who will flog a dead cat just to distract. Trump was an expert in doing so. 

Yes I agree he is a narcissist and makes some crass remarks in his game of having the last word.

My bro thinks he will be back to be president again, I can see why though don't think he will win the Republican lead just don't ask me who will as I've no idea. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, Waylander said:

I agree with this and think there are similarities here though not on the same scale.

I only post the Biden one as I think they get an easy ride in the media.

I didn't like Corbyn yet did not believe he was either corrupt or anti-Semitic yet the media witch-hunt was in full swing until he stepped down.

Tbf, I don't think any US president gets an easy ride in the media. The big media outlets in the US are pretty staunch in their support of either republicans or moderate (but only moderate lol) democrats. But even Biden has been getting a hard time from the moderate democrat media outlets. And while Trump was constantly berated for his shit personality by these outlets, I'm not so sure that he really caught anywhere near enough flak for his brazen corruption.

Tbh, I think the criticisms of Biden are a lot more similar to the Corbyn ones. I'm a labour voter and I couldn't really stand Corbyn, but I don't think he's an anti-semite or corrupt (I just don't think he's a really good leader, even if I have a lot of policy agreements with him - he's just rubbish at messaging and conveying his point across, I imagine him as PM would be a shitshow). Fox aren't exactly known for "fair and balanced" coverage and often hammer bullshit down onto democrats - similar to the treatment Corbyn (and Miliband before him) got. Corporate media has the incentive to push hyperpartisan bullshit in politics, both for ratings and also to get agendas that are in their interest.

13 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Yes I agree he is a narcissist and makes some crass remarks in his game of having the last word.

My bro thinks he will be back to be president again, I can see why though don't think he will win the Republican lead just don't ask me who will as I've no idea. 

I think Trump will be the next US president after Biden as well. I don't think democrats have done well since Biden's taken office in terms of getting an agenda out quickly and getting anything big done and optimism over his presidency has sort of died down. At this rate, I think republicans are due to win big in the midterm elections and regain control of the house & senate - at worst this'll see Biden impeached by a republican house (I think as "revenge" for the Trump impeachments) and they'll certainly not pass any laws that he can sign and put his name on before the next presidential election.

Trump's hold on the republican base is very strong. Probably the best contenders are: Ted Cruz, who I think nobody outside of Texas likes (and even those in Texas might like him much less once he tried to fuck off to an all-inclusive resort as his state froze over) & Ron DeSantis - but much of his base overlaps with the Trump base and I think at the end of the day Trump is far more popular among the American right wing.

Democrats' best hope is that Trump not being on twitter doesn't make people forget how divisive he was & that moderate voters will go for a "middle of the road" kind of candidate like Biden/Harris. America is quite conservative, so I don't think anyone more to the left of the middle has any hope at this sort of election. But I'm not sure Biden will even run again. It could be a Harris/Buttigieg campaign vs. Trump/whoever - and I think Trump will win that contest quite easily.

[Waylander]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbf, I don't think any US president gets an easy ride in the media. The big media outlets in the US are pretty staunch in their support of either republicans or moderate (but only moderate lol) democrats. But even Biden has been getting a hard time from the moderate democrat media outlets. And while Trump was constantly berated for his shit personality by these outlets, I'm not so sure that he really caught anywhere near enough flak for his brazen corruption.

Tbh, I think the criticisms of Biden are a lot more similar to the Corbyn ones. I'm a labour voter and I couldn't really stand Corbyn, but I don't think he's an anti-semite or corrupt (I just don't think he's a really good leader, even if I have a lot of policy agreements with him - he's just rubbish at messaging and conveying his point across, I imagine him as PM would be a shitshow). Fox aren't exactly known for "fair and balanced" coverage and often hammer bullshit down onto democrats - similar to the treatment Corbyn (and Miliband before him) got. Corporate media has the incentive to push hyperpartisan bullshit in politics, both for ratings and also to get agendas that are in their interest.

I think Trump will be the next US president after Biden as well. I don't think democrats have done well since Biden's taken office in terms of getting an agenda out quickly and getting anything big done and optimism over his presidency has sort of died down. At this rate, I think republicans are due to win big in the midterm elections and regain control of the house & senate - at worst this'll see Biden impeached by a republican house (I think as "revenge" for the Trump impeachments) and they'll certainly not pass any laws that he can sign and put his name on before the next presidential election.

Trump's hold on the republican base is very strong. Probably the best contenders are: Ted Cruz, who I think nobody outside of Texas likes (and even those in Texas might like him much less once he tried to fuck off to an all-inclusive resort as his state froze over) & Ron DeSantis - but much of his base overlaps with the Trump base and I think at the end of the day Trump is far more popular among the American right wing.

Democrats' best hope is that Trump not being on twitter doesn't make people forget how divisive he was & that moderate voters will go for a "middle of the road" kind of candidate like Biden/Harris. America is quite conservative, so I don't think anyone more to the left of the middle has any hope at this sort of election. But I'm not sure Biden will even run again. It could be a Harris/Buttigieg campaign vs. Trump/whoever - and I think Trump will win that contest quite easily.

I agree with you on Corbyn.

I think it is a fair question as to whether Biden will last the term and that raises the spectre of a Harris presidency though in that scenario Hilary's might make a move.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Waylander said:

I agree with you on Corbyn.

I think it is a fair question as to whether Biden will last the term and that raises the spectre of a Harris presidency though in that scenario Hilary's might make a move.

I doubt Hilary ever runs again.

She's politically damaged goods - pretty unpopular amongst democrats (partially because of the way the DNC fucked over Bernie Sanders & partially just not campaigning in areas she probably should have campaigned before losing to Trump & I think even more democrats just don't like her simply for losing to Trump) and she's absolutely hated amongst republicans.

If she goes again, I think it's nailed on that a republican (whoever it is) ends up the next president.

[Dr. Gonzo]

This weekend a Democrat senator from West Virginia went on Fox News and basically said “I’m killing Biden’s presidency” when Joe Manchin said he wasn’t going to vote for the build back better bill (big infrastructure spending bill).

With democrats like this, the senate might as well still be Republican controlled. Not that it matters because in 2 years I suspect the senate will firmly be back in the hands of the republicans

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Fair play, this is the sort of thing that'd make Trump proud.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/12/17/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-74/

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Fair play, this is the sort of thing that'd make Trump proud.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2021/12/17/press-briefing-by-white-house-covid-19-response-team-and-public-health-officials-74/

Is there something you disagree with?

[Bluebird Hewitt]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Is there something you disagree with?

Not really, but if that was said by anyone in Trump or Johnson's government, people would be ripping into them.

It's not the sort of thing that should be said really.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Bluebird Hewitt

[Dr. Gonzo]

18 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said:

Not really, but if that was said by anyone in Trump or Johnson's government, people would be ripping into them.

It's not the sort of thing that should be said really.

I doubt Trump would ever say anything that overtly pro-vaccination tbh. The most recent times he's made public appearances he's tried to encourage his crowds to get vaccinated, then gets booed, and then tries to walk back his pro-vaccine statements.

But I agree with you if you're saying that the standard of political discourse has dropped - the bar's been lowered that the White House makes a divisive statement like that and nobody really bats an eyelid. But it's not exactly the greatest way to encourage people to get vaccinated at all.

But that's how US politics is now. Divisive and not really well thought out.

[Cicero]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But it's not exactly the greatest way to encourage people to get vaccinated at all.

At this point, it is. They've tried every single way to breakthrough to those that refuse vaccinations, so personally, I love their statement. 

"I don't want to get the vaccine". 

"Then die". 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

At this point, it is. They've tried every single way to breakthrough to those that refuse vaccinations, so personally, I love their statement. 

"I don't want to get the vaccine". 

"Then die". 

But tbf that whole "think the way I do or die" is the kind of political discourse/rhetoric that got America into the situation it's in presently.

It's like Trump or senators like Rand Paul voting to deny federal relief for natural disasters in places like California, New Jersey (because they don't vote the way republicans like) or Puerto Rico (which is a weird one for republicans to deny because... Puerto Rico is actually pretty conservative), but then immediately demanding federal aid if disaster strikes somewhere like Kentucky.

Americans need to realise that they're on the same team. Democrats and Republicans should both want what's best for Americans because their job is to lead America.

American political culture makes it's way into the UK, Australia, and probably other places. So seeing that this kind of division get further normalised really does not bode well for the rest of the Anglo-sphere.

[Cicero]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But tbf that whole "think the way I do or die" is the kind of political discourse/rhetoric that got America into the situation it's in presently.

I disagree when only one argument in this whole debacle is actually supported by science. These restrictions, travel bans, lockdowns, and overcrowding of hospitals and the lack of medical staff are at a direct result of those who refuse to get vaccinated. We are genuinely at a stand still with no hope of moving forward.  How else are they going to reach these people? There will always be conspiracy theorists and the alt right who believe this is a left wing political scheme. 

Just yesterday, my wife (an LPN) told me that one of her patients was being treated for Covid, and when she refused the antibodies the Doctor wanted to give her, the Doctor literally sighed and asked her "Do you want to die?" 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Cicero

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I disagree when only one argument in this whole debacle is actually supported by science. These restrictions, travel bans, lockdowns, and overcrowding of hospitals and the lack of medical staff are at a direct result of those who refuse to get vaccinated. We are genuinely at a stand still with no hope of moving forward.  How else are they going to reach these people? There will always be conspiracy theorists and the alt right who believe this is a left wing political scheme. 

Just yesterday, my wife (an LPN) told me that one of her patients was being treated for Covid, and when she refused the antibodies the Doctor wanted to give her, the Doctor literally sighed and asked her "Do you want to die?" 

I think it's one thing for doctors to just say things like that compared to political leaders.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you - only one side of the argument is supported by science & the other side is supported by insane shit on the internet. There will always be conspiracy theorists and fringe weirdos on the extreme ends of any country's political spectrum.

But in a time of fractured partisan politics - further division is an awful way to get people to move away from the fringe. It's just going to further entrench those views by the people who have those views, while political leaders need to be trying to pull people away from the fringe. One American party has already been taken over entirely by the politics of division - losing the second party to the same thing in a two party system is not good. Especially when it's looking like the insane party is probably going to make big gains in the midterm elections.

[OrangeKhrush]

america is fractured and the divide is getting worse.   it is propagated by major media like NY Whines, Washington B.S., MSNBC, CNN.   

what is needed is a butt the hatchet and mutual commonality, starting with what it means to be American again.

 

if China and Russia invaded the US, they are so divided it is more likely that America will fall.

the divide coincides with Putin's rise to power and focus on returning Russia to the old Soviet Union.   KGB have always wanted to turn Americans on themselves and I believe the pettiness is a product of sensationalist propaganda driven by communist states.   China owns the majority stake in CNN and MSNBC

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 05/02/2022 at 00:28, OrangeKhrush said:

China owns the majority stake in CNN and MSNBC

 no they don't CNN's owned by AT&T. NBC (including MSNBC) is owned by Comcast. The largest shareholders for both companies are predominantly US banks.

If you want to blame any one person for the huge divide in US politics, better look at Rupert Murdoch... who's also responsible for the political mess in the UK tbh.

[OrangeKhrush]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 no they don't CNN's owned by AT&T. NBC (including MSNBC) is owned by Comcast. The largest shareholders for both companies are predominantly US banks.

If you want to blame any one person for the huge divide in US politics, better look at Rupert Murdoch... who's also responsible for the political mess in the UK tbh.

He didn't have to buy Man United to ruin them.

[Dr. Gonzo]

10 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

He didn't have to buy Man United to ruin them.

Yeah he’s not the Glazer family 

[JoshBRFC+]

Random question here after watching a podcast of an American.
 

From an outsider before the elections I was pro Biden and against Trump. 
 

However, from an outsider now it sounds like Biden is just as bad if not worse? How do the Americans on here feel about Biden so far? I watch regular podcasts but don’t necessarily keep up with the mainstream news. 
 

Just curious as I find it interesting!  

Edited February 11, 2022 by JoshBRFC

[Spike]

1 minute ago, JoshBRFC said:

From an outsider before the elections I was pro Biden and against Trump. 
 

However, from an outsider now it sounds like Biden is just as bad if not worse? How do the Americans on here feel about Biden so far? I watch regular podcasts but don’t necessarily keep up with the mainstream news. 
 

Just curious as I find it interesting!  

What makes you say that?

[JoshBRFC+]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

What makes you say that?

Which bit?

I watch regular podcasts. Patrick Bet David who’s a genius and very intriguing person. Michael Franzese. And more…. And the impression I get on Biden is not good, not good at all. 

[Spike]

Just now, JoshBRFC said:

Which bit?

I watch regular podcasts. Patrick Bet David who’s a genius and very intriguing person. Michael Franzese. And more…. And the impression I get on Biden is not good, not good at all. 

I don't listen or know who those people are. You're gonna have to work with me here

[JoshBRFC+]

18 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't listen or know who those people are. You're gonna have to work with me here

You’re gonna have to make sense first buddeh.

What is your question? smart objectives  

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, JoshBRFC said:

You’re gonna have to make sense first buddeh.

What is your question? smart objectives  

You asked a two  questions and I asked you to explain why you think that way so I can answer them. It's pretty obvious mate