Leeds 0-0 Arsenal - Sunday 22nd November, 2020

[Dan+]

This will sound daft and very harsh but I wonder if Leeds are a dark horse to drop. They're not turning their performances into results - and I'm not convinced they can sustain this level of performance.

[Chaaay AFC]

Barely watched Arsenal this season, didn't even see this game. I tend to miss games due to shift work but I can barely drag myself to watch them currently. Just a mix of bland football without getting the results it's honestly feels like a waste of time. I could hack the crap football if there was a clear identity to what we are looking to become, but it's just a complete mess currently. 

Just so many question marks about the club still, we've botched so many things in the last 5 years we never manage to improve. It's always one step forward two steps back. 

[Stan]

4 hours ago, Dan said:

This will sound daft and very harsh but I wonder if Leeds are a dark horse to drop. They're not turning their performances into results - and I'm not convinced they can sustain this level of performance.

I disagree. When you look at Sheff Utd, Fulham, West Brom and even Burnley, they're not doing anything right now to convince me they can turn their form around consistently to avoid the drop.

Leeds have a lot more about them than those 4 clubs. They will be fine I think. 

[Lucas]

7 hours ago, Dan said:

This will sound daft and very harsh but I wonder if Leeds are a dark horse to drop. They're not turning their performances into results - and I'm not convinced they can sustain this level of performance.

I don't think so, I'm confident we can avoid it looking around us.

Presently, I don't think we've got the points we necessarily deserve for our performances. We should have at least 4 more points from games we should have won and that's me being fair.

We've had some really bad luck so far with decisions and things that happen in games and I feel that's got to balance itself out in due course.

Not to mention we've not been able to field our best side once yet after 9 games, and for a team with limited strength in depth, that is big. A lot of you can get by when you miss players as you've proved but we can't.

I agree, we need to take our chances because we're producing some good football and the stats always back us up, but I'm also sensible in realising we're coming to grips with a level we haven't been at for a while and settling in. There is naiveity in our play at times.

When we can field our best eleven for a few weeks on the trot and perhaps get a bit more rub of the green which should naturally happen over time, I think we'll be ok.

The aim is to finish 17th or higher, and I'm positive we can achieve that.

[LFCMadLad]

Yeah Leeds should be fine. I hope so anyway because having Leeds back in the top division is pretty cool. 

[Dan+]

For what it's worth I don't think you actually will, what's quite amazing is so far, the team in 17th place are on course for just 17 points. It's hard to see anybody outside of those four as things stand becoming serious contenders, although it's still very early days and things can change very quickly in relegation battles.

But there's a couple of slightly worrying signs for me, I really can't believe you're as low down as 15th, performance wise you should be top half absolute minimum. That's never a great sign to me.

[LFCMadLad]

I like Leeds as a club but just one little gripe. . Why has their manager not even tried to learn the language of the country he plies his trade? 

Pig ignorant if you ask me. Its not like hes only just started a new job here! 

[Stan]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

I like Leeds as a club but just one little gripe. . Why has their manager not even tried to learn the language of the country he plies his trade? 

Pig ignorant if you ask me. Its not like hes only just started a new job here! 

Fairy In Boots would have an absolute field day at the lack of integration

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Fairy In Boots would have an absolute field day at the lack of integration

I just feel that someone who has worked in the UK for years should by now have been bothered to learn the language. 

I mean, its the most common language spoken in the world and he still needs a translator. 

[The Artful Dodger]

4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I just feel that someone who has worked in the UK for years should by now have been bothered to learn the language. 

I mean, its the most common language spoken in the world and he still needs a translator. 

 i think Bielsa is very clever in using a translator, it means he can't be misquoted and his words twister. Pochettino did much the same for a long time while at Southampton. He probably knows more than he lets on and even if not, so what, as long as he can get his message to his players, it doesn't matter if it's in semaphore.

[Lucas]

37 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

I like Leeds as a club but just one little gripe. . Why has their manager not even tried to learn the language of the country he plies his trade? 

Pig ignorant if you ask me. Its not like hes only just started a new job here! 

Bielsa isn't stupid. He knows the basic language and converses with the British players and backroom staff in English. Everything about him is very understated, he doesn't like attention.

He doesn't speak to the Media because he doesn't wish to get misquoted and as a perfectionist, he feels embarrassed if he doesn't pronounce a name properly and doesn't wish to offend. 

There was one occasion where he couldn't pronounce Ipswich a couple years ago, it came out as Ip-sitch and Ip-Shitz, and everyone seemed to find it hysterically funny but he views that as him being disrespectful.

If people are gonna take the piss why should he is my view. It doesn't bother me he uses a translator and I don't think it should bother anyone else.

And because the media cannot hit him with quick fire questions, you will never see him rattled in a press conference because he is always in control and I like that. 

[LFCMadLad]

11 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Bielsa isn't stupid. He knows the basic language and converses with the British players and backroom staff in English. Everything about him is very understated, he doesn't like attention.

He doesn't speak to the Media because he doesn't wish to get misquoted and as a perfectionist, he feels embarrassed if he doesn't pronounce a name properly and doesn't wish to offend. 

There was one occasion where he couldn't pronounce Ipswich a couple years ago, it came out as Ip-sitch and Ip-Shitz, and everyone seemed to find it hysterically funny but he views that as him being disrespectful.

If people are gonna take the piss why should he is my view. It doesn't bother me he uses a translator and I don't think it should bother anyone else.

And because the media cannot hit him with quick fire questions, you will never see him rattled in a press conference because he is always in control and I like that. 

Thats fair enough mate. All i will say is that its a good job all the other foreign managers don't take that route or else post match interviews would literally take half a day to conclude. 

Still think he should speak fluent English by now but like I said, its only a small gripe because all in all I like Leeds as a club.

[Dan+]

41 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

 i think Bielsa is very clever in using a translator, it means he can't be misquoted and his words twister. Pochettino did much the same for a long time while at Southampton. He probably knows more than he lets on and even if not, so what, as long as he can get his message to his players, it doesn't matter if it's in semaphore.

Agree with this. Think there's a good case for it given our media.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, LFCMadLad said:

I just feel that someone who has worked in the UK for years should by now have been bothered to learn the language. 

I mean, its the most common language spoken in the world and he still needs a translator. 

Biesla is an old man and is rumoured to be on the autism spectrum (heresay but possible when you observe his behaviour and long history of idiosyncrasies), two huge mountains for anyone to overcome when learning a new language. Imagine the difficulty navigating the social norms and eccentricities in a foreign language. Idioms, subtleties, slang, implications, are all very difficult things to wrap your head around. Really all he has done is cut out the guess work and miscommunication chances by having an assistant whose job is to know both languages inside and out. Really though. his English could be great, we don't know because he doesn't speak in public.

Not everyone has can grasp foreign language easily, nor do many people pick it up fluently.

[LFCMadLad]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Biesla is an old man and is rumoured to be on the autism spectrum (heresay but possible when you observe his behaviour and long history of idiosyncrasies), two huge mountains for anyone to overcome when learning a new language. Imagine the difficulty navigating the social norms and eccentricities in a foreign language. Idioms, subtleties, slang, implications, are all very difficult things to wrap your head around. Really all he has done is cut out the guess work and miscommunication chances by having an assistant whose job is to know both languages inside and out. Really though. his English could be great, we don't know because he doesn't speak in public.

Not everyone has can grasp foreign language easily, nor do many people pick it up fluently.

Fair enough if he has them difficulties. Like I said, it was only a small gripe of mine.

[Spike]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Fair enough if he has them difficulties. Like I said, it was only a small gripe of mine.

From what I've heard from a few people is that English is very difficult because it's so irregular and us (meaning people like the British, Australians, New Zealanders) speak very differently to the more common American-English. It's one thing to understand 'Hello, how are you?' and 'g'day, howyer goan, mate'? or 'cheerio, luv' instead 'goodbye' for instance

[LFCMadLad]

Ive never understood why Americans say "sup" instead of a simple "hi" for instance 

[Spike]

6 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Ive never understood why Americans say "sup" instead of a simple "hi" for instance 

I don't know if I hear that one but I do 'yoooo, this XYZ is lit as fuck, dog' 'it's hella fire'

fair to them having their own slang but I prefer mine! christ if you called someone a dog at a pub  in australia you're liable to get into a punch up

[Panna King]

Arteta out!

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon 69 said:

Arteta out!

What do Arsenal do though if they sack him now? With the COVID break to the last season, he's only been in the job for just half a year.

I don't think it sends a reassuring message to any would-be managers if Arsenal establish a reputation for being quick to sack the manager. I think there's a lot of work needed to be done to turn things around at Arsenal - some of the problems aren't necessarily down to the manager as well and likely won't change even if the manager/coaching staff changes.

I think Arsenal just made sweeping overhauls to their scouting/recruitment team and the last transfer window is meant to be the last window using their older methods. I think Arteta deserves at least a window or two with the new recruitment methods to see if he can improve Arsenal at all.

At the same time, I can understand why Arteta would be under quite a bit of pressure. When he was appointed, I thought it was a strange appointment because I think rebuilding Arsenal is a massive job for even an experienced manager. Arteta's not an experienced manager, he's literally getting his first experience as a manager right now with Arsenal. It's a big ask for him to turn the club around. And it's probably unrealistic to expect him to be the right man for the club.

I think it's probably wise to keep him around until a manager with the right pedigree to manage a club the size of Arsenal with the experience to rebuild a team in the image Arsenal fans can get behind... just because otherwise, I think Arsenal are destined to languish in mid-table for even longer. But... I think it's really important to identify a strategy for Arsenal rebuilding in the long term and identifying a manager that fits that strategy.

I do think Arteta's tactics make Diego Simeone look like a fairly attacking and progressive manager... and that's pretty poor for Arsenal who in my lifetime put out some sides that played some of the most attractive football I've seen in England. So I wouldn't be sad to see Arteta get the sack.

But I don't know if he deserves after a disjoint 6 months in charge during a pandemic?

[Panna King]

12 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What do Arsenal do though if they sack him now? With the COVID break to the last season, he's only been in the job for just half a year.

I don't think it sends a reassuring message to any would-be managers if Arsenal establish a reputation for being quick to sack the manager. I think there's a lot of work needed to be done to turn things around at Arsenal - some of the problems aren't necessarily down to the manager as well and likely won't change even if the manager/coaching staff changes.

I think Arsenal just made sweeping overhauls to their scouting/recruitment team and the last transfer window is meant to be the last window using their older methods. I think Arteta deserves at least a window or two with the new recruitment methods to see if he can improve Arsenal at all.

At the same time, I can understand why Arteta would be under quite a bit of pressure. When he was appointed, I thought it was a strange appointment because I think rebuilding Arsenal is a massive job for even an experienced manager. Arteta's not an experienced manager, he's literally getting his first experience as a manager right now with Arsenal. It's a big ask for him to turn the club around. And it's probably unrealistic to expect him to be the right man for the club.

I think it's probably wise to keep him around until a manager with the right pedigree to manage a club the size of Arsenal with the experience to rebuild a team in the image Arsenal fans can get behind... just because otherwise, I think Arsenal are destined to languish in mid-table for even longer. But... I think it's really important to identify a strategy for Arsenal rebuilding in the long term and identifying a manager that fits that strategy.

I do think Arteta's tactics make Diego Simeone look like a fairly attacking and progressive manager... and that's pretty poor for Arsenal who in my lifetime put out some sides that played some of the most attractive football I've seen in England. So I wouldn't be sad to see Arteta get the sack.

But I don't know if he deserves after a disjoint 6 months in charge during a pandemic?

Arsenal have been dreadful though under Arteta if you take away the FA Cup, his league form is awful.  Arsenal are not scoring goals or even worse they are not creating anything unless it comes from a full back on a counter attack. Arteta so far just uses 1 tactic no matter who the opposition is home and away to sit back and everyone behind the ball defending for their lives with the odd counter attack.  His man management is dreadful as well, I just cannot see him lasting long.      

[Lucas]

If I'm being perfectly honest, I don't understand what Arsenal fans want or expect in such a short space of time.

Cold, hard fact for the Arsenal Fan TV collective. They are associated with being in the 'big 6', but they are not a 'big 6' club. They haven't been for a while. They are getting by on name only. A big 6 club should have a legitimate claim to challenging for the league IMO.

The club have been lightyears away from being in a position to challenge for the league, and Arteta has had a lot of 'deadwood' to sort out there. You could hardly say he was inheriting a great squad. Some pretty average signings from the back end of Wenger's reign and Emery's hanging about.

Maybe it's because Arsenal are not used to watching games like this and being so blunt in attack. I completely understand it's frustrating but that club has had a soft underbelly for years being rolled over too easily and the one thing you can say about them now is, they are tough to beat. They would never have picked up a point in those circumstances before.

Klopp never had it easy when he first went to Liverpool. Far from it. He had his critics, I'm sure there were a couple Liverpool fans on here that had their doubts but he got their once he'd overhauled the squad and was able to play the way he wanted. You have to give Arteta time to do the same.

Maybe the frustration is also probably shared at the fact Spurs are doing well after being so poor last year, but you have to remember their squad was much better than Arsenal's in the first place, they were simply under-achieving massively. They have been a regular Champions League club more so than Arsenal in recent times.

Arsenal needed a complete restructure, and it was a tough job for anyone going in. They went with a young guy they felt could grow with the team over the next 4 years and you have to give him a fair crack to implement his vision.

[RandoEFC+]

At some point you've got to stick with a manager. Arsenal's style of play has been worse under him a lot of the time but he's inherited an expensive and imbalanced squad. You've got to have some sympathy.

Arsenal's major problem over the last few years has been a poor mentality and tactical ineptitude in big games. Arteta has actually done really well in those games for an inexperienced manager, even if it has been ugly at times. He hasn't exactly had a lot of time to build his own side, I think you need to give him a few transfer windows. When a manager is brought in to achieve instant results then they should be judged early on, but Arteta's job is a rebuild and he's barely been able to get started on it yet, you can't call him a failure at this point.

[Dan+]

I'm really torn on Arsenal. I'm not convinced Arteta is the answer but I'm not convinced one bit by a lot of their players either. They're a good example of what happens when you don't plan ahead. They're stuck at a crossroads.

I think they're gonna be around midtable for the next couple of seasons at least.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, SirBalon 69 said:

Arsenal have been dreadful though under Arteta if you take away the FA Cup, his league form is awful.  Arsenal are not scoring goals or even worse they are not creating anything unless it comes from a full back on a counter attack. Arteta so far just uses 1 tactic no matter who the opposition is home and away to sit back and everyone behind the ball defending for their lives with the odd counter attack.  His man management is dreadful as well, I just cannot see him lasting long.      

Tbf this was all true before Arteta came in