Spike 5,103 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 if a league has three really good teams, ,the three best teams in the world, and they always make it to the top 4 teams in the champions league but the rest of the league plays at a semi-professional level it doesn't make that league the best in the world, it just means those three teams are really good. that is why coefficients are testicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Spike said: if a league has three really good teams, ,the three best teams in the world, and they always make it to the top 4 teams in the champions league but the rest of the league plays at a semi-professional level it doesn't make that league the best in the world, it just means those three teams are really good. that is why coefficients are testicles There's a thing called the Europa league and a Europa conference coming soon, which is used to measure the lower table. I don't know how many times I have to say it. I agree that cup competitions can be misleading, but if it happens over time it's not a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mpache said: Then how do you measure quality then? Domestic matches can be VERY misleading. I remember when City looked unstoppable many times in the league and got shown up in Europe. so that'd mean european matches are misleading too. you just argued against yourself, if the coefficient rates leagues on performance of the teams, and england is the best league, and mancity were the best team in england, why would they lose in europe, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Just now, Spike said: so that'd mean european matches are misleading too. you just argued against yourself, if the coefficient rates leagues on performance of the teams, and england is the best league, and mancity were the best team in england, why would they lose in europe, Nope, because firstly, I don't remember any team that looked unbeatable in Europe that wasn't also in the league. Chelsea in 2012 very much was beatable. Secondly, there is more at stake because of fewer matches, so many games are played at a faster pace. I've seen some Premier League games at turtle pace and quality, but I know they'd beat a lot of turtle teams that show quality in their domestic league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 There is an equal barometre for performance year in and year out in a league setting because every team always plays the same schedule. Cup competitions never have the same schedule, so there is nothing to compare. That is why teams like Liverpool in 05 and Chelsea in 12 can win cups but not leagues. That is why Real Sociedad can win the Copa del Rey and sit in 7th place simultaneously. European cups only allow few teams to qualify, they don't rate the entirety of a league, so using UEFA coefficients to say England is betta than Germany means nothing because Aston Villa and Frankfurt sure as hell aren't being taken into consideration. A league is the entire roster of teams, not the few that qualify for European cup competitions. Coefficient are not evidence of a league's superiority to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Just now, Spike said: There is an equal barometre for performance year in and year out in a league setting because every team always plays the same schedule. Cup competitions never have the same schedule, so there is nothing to compare. That is why teams like Liverpool in 05 and Chelsea in 12 can win cups but not leagues. That is why Real Sociedad can win the Copa del Rey and sit in 7th place simultaneously. European cups only allow few teams to qualify, they don't rate the entirety of a league, so using UEFA coefficients to say England is betta than Germany means nothing because Aston Villa and Frankfurt sure as hell aren't being taken into consideration. A league is the entire roster of teams, not the few that qualify for European cup competitions. I don't know how many times I can tell you that cups can be misleading, and I agree with that. However, if the CL isn't to measure league quality, then the point of the competition is devalued and we may as well see it as a glorified friendly cup. I don't measure it over 1 year, I wait til 3 before making judgement just cos of how misleading cup competitions can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 Just now, Mpache said: I don't know how many times I can tell you that cups can be misleading, and I agree with that. However, if the CL isn't to measure league quality, then the point of the competition is devalued and we may as well see it as a glorified friendly cup. I don't measure it over 1 year, I wait til 3 before making judgement just cos of how misleading cup competitions can be. You don't understand that I'm comparing an entire roster of a league with another, and the CL doesn't take that into consideration, only the best teams of a league. What if Romania had 15 shit teams but the five best teams in the world that won the Cl every single year for twenty years straight but the twenty teams in Denmark could beat the bottom fifteen 8-0 every single time? That doesn't measure the quality of any league just the quality of the wining teams. To me that would say Denmark has a better league but Romania has the best teams. A league is wholistic and a coefficient can be carried by several quality teams, which is not wholistic. It can give an impression of which leagues have the stronger teams but it is not proof that a league is better than another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted April 5, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 5, 2021 Why 3 seasons? Such an arbitrary figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Just now, Spike said: You don't understand that I'm comparing an entire roster of a league with another, and the CL doesn't take that into consideration, only the best teams of a league. What if Romania had 15 shit teams but the five best teams in the world that won the Cl every single year for twenty years straight but the twenty teams in Denmark could beat the bottom fifteen 8-0 every single time? That doesn't measure the quality of any league just the quality of the wining teams. To me that would say Denmark has a better league but Romania has the best teams. A league is wholistic and a coefficient can be carried by several quality teams, which is not wholistic. It can give an impression of which leagues have the stronger teams but it is not proof that a league is better than another. We are going in circles. I would agree with you if the Europa League didn't exist. Portugal is a good example of this, they are awful below the top 3, but that is shown up in Europa league (nowadays anyhow) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Just now, Stan said: Why 3 seasons? Such an arbitrary figure. I figure it's a good barometer for consistency. 1 year could be a freak run, and 2 is too little to judge, in my eyes anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 Just now, Mpache said: We are going in circles. I would agree with you if the Europa League didn't exist. Portugal is a good example of this, they are awful below the top 3, but that is shown up in Europa league (nowadays anyhow) The exact same applies to the Europe League, but even worse because CL teams trickle down into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 Just now, Spike said: The exact same applies to the Europe League, but even worse because CL teams trickle down into it. Which I mentioned in an earlier post as to how Manchester United don't work into the discussion but the likes of Arsenal do. One of them finish top 5 every year in England, the other have been mid table fodder. The 2 Spanish sides in Europa now both qualified directly and not via CL (at least not groups anyways). Same with Sevilla last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,253 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Spike said: You don't understand that I'm comparing an entire roster of a league with another, and the CL doesn't take that into consideration, only the best teams of a league. What if Romania had 15 shit teams but the five best teams in the world that won the Cl every single year for twenty years straight but the twenty teams in Denmark could beat the bottom fifteen 8-0 every single time? That doesn't measure the quality of any league just the quality of the wining teams. To me that would say Denmark has a better league but Romania has the best teams. A league is wholistic and a coefficient can be carried by several quality teams, which is not wholistic. It can give an impression of which leagues have the stronger teams but it is not proof that a league is better than another. Ah, the Ligue 1 conundrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 15 hours ago, El Profesor said: Brazil is not a football powerhouse anymore. The europeans have overtaken us and it wouldn´t surprise if the US and Mexico reached and surpassed our level in the next decade or so. The new generation of english, french, spanish and portuguese players are all better than the brazilian one. We have a lot of depth and fairly good options at positions al but we lack elite, generational talent. The last truly great attacking player developed in Brazil was Neymar and this happened more than the 10 years ago. Painfully this is totally true. The World cup without a competitive Brazil just doesn't seem the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 It pains me to admit it but the simple truth is the groundwork City have put in place will more than likely see them surpass Manchester United's accomplishments during my life time. Unless something is done to stop them going forward then I see no reason why they can't clean up for the next few decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris 2,606 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 14 hours ago, Mpache said: If you have 4 German teams in the quarter finals and 1 English team, what does that tell you? I measure it every 3 years myself. La Liga was dominant in every European competition from 2014-2018. So to me it's fair to say la Liga had the best league. More like 2010-2018 to be honest. Not just because of European success, but had the genuine world class players and was also producing the best players. I also wouldn't say it was in free fall currently, but more going through a period of transition. The amount of top quality young players in this Barça team, for example, is very positive and having the time to grow together is often a recipe for success, especially now a president, who knows what he's doing, is at the club. Don't be surprised if Laporta pulls off a few signings such as Haaland to compliment this young growing team. His contacts and relations in the sport are second to none and he knows how to pull off the top signings, along with believing in youth at the same time, which is the perfect balance for a club to have a long period of success. He was behind signings such as Ronaldinho, Dani Alves, Eto'o, Deco, Ibrahimovic, Rafa Marquez, David Villa, Thierry Henry, Abidal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted April 6, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 6, 2021 34 minutes ago, Devil said: Unless something is done to stop them going forward then I see no reason why they can't clean up for the next few decades. The European Super League where they can fuck off to a league with other elite (£££££££) clubs will put a stop to their domination. They won't win everything in that (if it ever goes ahead, hopefully not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 I'll admit Brendan Rodgers is alright. But I still think his Swansea side were one of the dullest of its time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, SkyBruce Championship said: I'll admit Brendan Rodgers is alright. But I still think his Swansea side were one of the dullest of its time. I also hate to admit that he's a pretty impressive manager. Doesn't change that he's a weird, delusional bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted April 6, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Inverted said: I also hate to admit that he's a pretty impressive manager. Doesn't change that he's a weird, delusional bastard. hey, don't worry. It's okay to admit he left you for a bigger club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Stan said: The European Super League where they can fuck off to a league with other elite (£££££££) clubs will put a stop to their domination. They won't win everything in that (if it ever goes ahead, hopefully not). Why couldn't they win that? They are the richest by a country mile, playing against the elite week in, week out will only build their experience of playing such teams and make them more formidable. I think that would be the worst thing that could happen as they'd go from strength to strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 14 minutes ago, Stan said: hey, don't worry. It's okay to admit he left you for a bigger club. I'll admit it once they find that Rangers fan who got out of their car to think him for what he's done for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,386 Posted April 6, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 6, 2021 23 minutes ago, Devil said: Why couldn't they win that? They are the richest by a country mile, playing against the elite week in, week out will only build their experience of playing such teams and make them more formidable. I think that would be the worst thing that could happen as they'd go from strength to strength. I didn't say they couldn't win it But we're talking about domination - I don't think that would be possible in the Super League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,557 Posted April 6, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted April 6, 2021 With Gnabry testing positive for Covid and Lewy injured and our recent form leaving alot to be desired I could very well see PSG have their way with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 4 hours ago, Carnivore Chris said: More like 2010-2018 to be honest. Not just because of European success, but had the genuine world class players and was also producing the best players. I also wouldn't say it was in free fall currently, but more going through a period of transition. The amount of top quality young players in this Barça team, for example, is very positive and having the time to grow together is often a recipe for success, especially now a president, who knows what he's doing, is at the club. Don't be surprised if Laporta pulls off a few signings such as Haaland to compliment this young growing team. His contacts and relations in the sport are second to none and he knows how to pull off the top signings, along with believing in youth at the same time, which is the perfect balance for a club to have a long period of success. He was behind signings such as Ronaldinho, Dani Alves, Eto'o, Deco, Ibrahimovic, Rafa Marquez, David Villa, Thierry Henry, Abidal... Yeah I took my comments back. Granada and Villareal are in the Europa League quarters, Sevilla won it last year. So I can't say it's been awful, just the top 3 really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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