The culture war

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

You could base your entire concept of the bible belt on one interaction, but I'd rather go with my three years of living there. BTW New Orleans isn't considered the bible belt, but the rest of Louisianna is.

I know it's not the entirety of the bible belt. But I will say it was a strange fucking interaction. I imagine most urban areas will be free of real association bible belt - but the area of Louisiana that we went to that wasn't New Orleans (but right around it) was like a different world entirely. Swamp and church land. Stark contrast to what it's next to. I honestly can't imagine living there. Pretty crazy how diverse the U.S. really is. Even in San Diego county, seeing how different things are in the main urban areas compared the east and north of the county... and they're all very different. The north of the county is just obscenely wealthy people and the east is a real mix of... pretty much everything.

I also don't really think California is some kind of cultist haven, like you're portraying. Apparently, from what I've heard asking more about it, the creationist museum here is constantly empty and is just a colossal waste Ken Ham's money really spent to pad his ego. Apparently he's got a few around the U.S. One in Kentucky and one in Alabama. No idea how those are doing.

Regardless, I still think the mix between those who want religion playing a more active role in everyone's lives in the U.S. and the more secular is causing a big divide in U.S. society. It is a definite culture war and it really seems like the two opposite sides of the spectrum are going to come to any kind of consensus. It's a bit worrying to me when it's not that long ago we had George W Bush saying he invaded Iraq because God told him to do it, and when you consider his Evangelical view of needing a holy war in the Middle East in order to bring about Armageddon and the Rapture. Who knows if that was just bullshit he said so he could rally the religious base around supporting a war on flimsy and made up evidence, or if it was his genuine belief that he needed to invade Iraq because God told him... either way, I think it's worth noting when talking about religion and it's cultural/political role in the USA.

[Spike]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I know it's not the entirety of the bible belt. But I will say it was a strange fucking interaction. I imagine most urban areas will be free of real association bible belt - but the area of Louisiana that we went to that wasn't New Orleans (but right around it) was like a different world entirely. Swamp and church land. Stark contrast to what it's next to. I honestly can't imagine living there. Pretty crazy how diverse the U.S. really is. Even in San Diego county, seeing how different things are in the main urban areas compared the east and north of the county... and they're all very different. The north of the county is just obscenely wealthy people and the east is a real mix of... pretty much everything.

I also don't really think California is some kind of cultist haven, like you're portraying. Apparently, from what I've heard asking more about it, the creationist museum here is constantly empty and is just a colossal waste Ken Ham's money really spent to pad his ego. Apparently he's got a few around the U.S. One in Kentucky and one in Alabama. No idea how those are doing.

Regardless, I still think the mix between those who want religion playing a more active role in everyone's lives in the U.S. and the more secular is causing a big divide in U.S. society. It is a definite culture war and it really seems like the two opposite sides of the spectrum are going to come to any kind of consensus. It's a bit worrying to me when it's not that long ago we had George W Bush saying he invaded Iraq because God told him to do it, and when you consider his Evangelical view of needing a holy war in the Middle East in order to bring about Armageddon and the Rapture. Who knows if that was just bullshit he said so he could rally the religious base around supporting a war on flimsy and made up evidence, or if it was his genuine belief that he needed to invade Iraq because God told him... either way, I think it's worth noting when talking about religion and it's cultural/political role in the USA.

It really, really is. Just like at California's history. No other state has had cults like the Manson Family, the Children of God, the People's Temple, Scientology, Heaven's Gate, The Source Family, Blackburn Cult, and I could go on. These cults have caused death.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, Spike said:

It really, really is. Just like at California's history. No other state has had cults like the Manson Family, the Children of God, the People's Temple, Scientology, Heaven's Gate, The Source Family, Blackburn Cult, and I could go on. These cults have caused death.

That could be because it has the most people though, and therefore more likely to have crazy people.

Look at the Davidian Branch in Texas, the Eckankar movement from Minnesota, there's a shitload of weird hippy cults in Florida and Oregon. I'd also argue that some of the more extreme versions of Christianity, like the WBC and others, are cult-like. Those churches are generally not found in California. Though we do have weirdos like Scientologists.

I think religion plays an important part in America in part because it was founded by ultra-puritanical types. People like Jefferson and Adams were notably critical of elements of Christianity - but I think they don't necessary reflect the views of most Americans.

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That could be because it has the most people though, and therefore more likely to have crazy people.

Look at the Davidian Branch in Texas, the Eckankar movement from Minnesota, there's a shitload of weird hippy cults in Florida and Oregon. I'd also argue that some of the more extreme versions of Christianity, like the WBC and others, are cult-like. Those churches are generally not found in California. Though we do have weirdos like Scientologists.

I think religion plays an important part in America in part because it was founded by ultra-puritanical types.

Just because there are cults all over the states doesn't mean California isn't the home of the cult. It's the biggest state, of course it's going to be. WBC isn't a cult like the others, it's a money-making scheme of one family. They insult people, get assaulted or whatever and then sue for damages.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Spike said:

Just because there are cults all over the states doesn't mean California isn't the home of the cult. It's the biggest state, of course it's going to be. WBC isn't a cult like the others, it's a money-making scheme of one family. They insult people, get assaulted or whatever and then sue for damages.

Yeah - ridiculous number of lawyers in that family. They're basically professional trolls. I think they genuinely believe that non-sense they spout though, and I think that makes them pretty cult-like.

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah - ridiculous number of lawyers in that family. They're basically professional trolls. I think they genuinely believe that non-sense they spout though, and I think that makes them pretty cult-like.

Eh, maybe. A lot of the family is estranged and the founder is actually a leading lawyer of the Civil Rights movement of the 60s. Talk about an odd change of profession.

[IgnisExcubitor]

On 5/9/2017 at 4:25 AM, Dr. Gonzo said:

The whole cultural appropriation is fucking bullshit. The Romans "culturally appropriated" as they built their empire, and the world is better off for it. Without "cultural appropriation" we'd all be worse off in terms of art, music, food, etc...

Something I've noticed is a bit of a culture war in the United States is the tension between atheists/secular people and the ultra-religious. There are ultra-religious evangelical Christians and Catholics who insist that they are subject to unfair persecution, based on reasons I think are totally silly (limiting how their churches, which don't pay taxes, can make political campaign contributions or... even more ridiculously, by things like Starbucks making their xmas cup all red instead of having Christmas decorations, and schools wishing kids 'happy holidays' instead of wishing them a happy Christmas).

In San Diego County, there's an area of the eastern part of the county called Santee, which is affectionately called Santucky or Klantee, where the radical Australian Christian zealot, Ken Ham, has built a pseudo-science museum dedicated to creationism. San Diego (the actual city of San Diego) has a pretty large scientific community that fucking hate this museum is here and think it's shameful to the county. And at the same time, there is a televangelist planning to build a Disneyland-style Jesus park, and there's similar uproar to that being built too.

So not so much in the city of San Diego, but in the county of San Diego, there is a big cultural split between the ultra-religious and the general secular population living here. I imagine this split along religion is more prevalent in other parts of the USA, where religion is generally a bigger deal, and where urban areas are more surrounded by the ultra-religious counties and regions... rather than a weird situation in Southern California.

I don't care about the religious bigots. They have always existed and have been mocked and ridiculed. I am more concerned about the culture of bullying that we see nowadays from the supposedly educated class. What we are seeing in college campuses (largely in US, Eng, Aus  and to an extent in other countries -- I see it here in India too) is terrible. Banning people of alternate opinion ( and I am not talking about extremists here) from speaking or getting people fired or publicly shamed for having an opinion is creating an atmosphere of censorship. It is only going to divide us more.

 

These people need to know the difference between countering an opinion and censoring it.

 

And when this bunch graduates it is going to affect the society. I already notice some of this generation coming into my office, and I have never seen more entitled and blinkered idiots than them.

[Spike]

I don't get the whole 'women can be soliders too' movement. I find it terribly irresponsible of the military to accept anyone (regardless of gender) into the armed forces that doesn't meet the physical and mental prerequisites. In a combat situation an averaged sized male cannot rely on an averaged sized female to carry him to safety if he cannot walk. Can a woman be a pilot or a sailor? Sure, they can also do officer and desk work. I just struggle to see any advantages of having women in combat units outside of more cannon fodder. The military isn't a joke, people die and are grievously injured, more lives shouldn't be jeopardised due to some notion of 'equality'. There isn't room for playing around when lives are on the line. If I was in combat I'd want to know that the guy that has my back can save my ass in a pinch and I would want that person to know that I can do the same. Of course there are women that are outliers and having amazing physiques that are suited to the military life but the average woman doesn't and that I what I'm talking about.

I think the military (at least the U.S.A.'s) is desperate for bodies. I read that the Marines are removing the swimming aptitude tests due to most 'inner-city youth' being unable to swim. In other words, the MARINES are removing SWIMMING so more black kids can go die for them.

[Panflute]

People who think women are just as physically capable of completing the most extreme operations have played too many MMORPGs.

[Dave]

48 minutes ago, Cure said:

 

[Batard]

20 minutes ago, Aaroncpfc said:

1 hour ago, Cure said:

 

?

[Dave]

Just now, Batard said:

?

Somehow my post quoting Cure's comment on Ian Brady ended in this thread. Even when I could barely reply without auto correct changing every word in the final days of TFF something so bizarre and unexplainable never happened.

[Stan]

11 hours ago, Cannabis said:

The aftermath of @Stan's bender in Magaluf is hitting the forum at the moment. Rest assured he will be sacked tomorrow morning.

safe

[Spike]

Alimony (in most cases, there are exceptions) and child-support (in the case it isn't necessary, a rich parent doesn't need it like a poor parent) is a sexist relic from a time in the USA where it was truly instituted by the 'patriarchy' (old men created laws because they believed women need protection). It infers that women cannot support themselves and that men must take care of them because even when the relationship is over. 

Why is a woman entitled to life-long alimony payments for an eight-year marriage?  (Why is a man as well?)

[The Artful Dodger]

On 2017-5-10 at 9:48 AM, IgnisExcubitor said:

I don't care about the religious bigots. They have always existed and have been mocked and ridiculed. I am more concerned about the culture of bullying that we see nowadays from the supposedly educated class. What we are seeing in college campuses (largely in US, Eng, Aus  and to an extent in other countries -- I see it here in India too) is terrible. Banning people of alternate opinion ( and I am not talking about extremists here) from speaking or getting people fired or publicly shamed for having an opinion is creating an atmosphere of censorship. It is only going to divide us more.

 

These people need to know the difference between countering an opinion and censoring it.

 

And when this bunch graduates it is going to affect the society. I already notice some of this generation coming into my office, and I have never seen more entitled and blinkered idiots than them.

Said every ageing man ever...

[God is Haaland]