Pedri

[Stan]

Just one of a few Barca academy prospects making their name now. Along with Gavi and Ansu Fati, Barca's future looks a tad brighter... 

 

 

 

[Spike]

5 hours ago, Stan said:

Just one of a few Barca academy prospects making their name now. Along with Gavi and Ansu Fati, Barca's future looks a tad brighter... 

 

 

 

They bought him. Not from the academy.You're two years late on this one, Stan Did you know Phil Foden plays for England and Man City?

[Cicero]

There's not much on Pedri before he was 15. What academy was he under before Las Palmas? 

[Stan]

31 minutes ago, Spike said:

They bought him. Not from the academy.You're two years late on this one, Stan Did you know Phil Foden plays for England and Man City?

My bad. 

[Viva la FCB+]

Jamal Musiala was voted 3rd on this one too. that'l do pig 

Also Florian Wirtz in 4th. 

[Spike]

7 hours ago, Stan said:

My bad. 

I forgive you, it is okay.

[Carnivore Chris]

On 22/11/2021 at 16:56, Cicero said:

There's not much on Pedri before he was 15. What academy was he under before Las Palmas? 

He played for Unión Deportiva Tegueste, a small regional club in Tenerife who no longer exist, then played for another small regional side from Tenerife called Juventud Laguna.

 

[Stan]

 

 

 

[Spike]

Goes to show how good Pedri is when he still wins the award after missing over half the year due to injury. Or how incompetent the selectors are.

[Carnivore Chris]

On 30/11/2021 at 16:54, Spike said:

Goes to show how good Pedri is when he still wins the award after missing over half the year due to injury. Or how incompetent the selectors are.

It's more for the season and the summer though and Pedri played nearly every game in all competitions for Barça last season then every game for Spain in both the Euros and Olympics in the summer.

He didn't miss over half the year at all either. He got injured mid September, so that's more a 1/4 of a year. He played all year until injury and didn't even have a rest after the Olympics before playing for his club the weekend after.

Without a doubt the deserving candidate. He must have played 50 games for club and country this year. In fact the main reason for his burn out followed by injury was due to him being over played.

[SirBalon]

There are quite a number of extremely talented Barça youths that are making their mark right now. My favourite of the bunch is Nico. I don’t know if anyone here remembers a magnificent Deportivo La Coruña player called Fran González. This is his son and he literally plays anywhere in midfield.

[Dr. Gonzo]

10 hours ago, SirBalon said:

There are quite a number of extremely talented Barça youths that are making their mark right now. My favourite of the bunch is Nico. I don’t know if anyone here remembers a magnificent Deportivo La Coruña player called Fran González. This is his son and he literally plays anywhere in midfield.

Do you think Barca will come through this rough patch in their history stronger? It seems their new DOF is incredible competent - getting players to sign contracts that lower their pay (or in Umtiti's case, taking his current pay and spreading it out over several years), they've always had a strong academy and there seem to be some very promising youngsters coming through, and they've now got a club legend as the manager.

And I think Feran Torres will be a brilliant signing for them.

I dunno how bad the financial situation really is - because Barca will sort of have to plan for seasons in advance each season, I think, to account for fixing the finances in the coming years... but it seems like there's a light at the end of the tunnel and there are plans and people in place to make sure Barca's time in the wilderness is short compared to how some European giants have lost their way in the past few decades.

[Cicero]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do you think Barca will come through this rough patch in their history stronger?

What amazes me was their poor financial planning regarding player wages. Just who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to give Griezmann nearly half a million a week and players like Sergio Roberto on 170kpw? Even DeJong is almost on 400kpw!

I understand having Messi on insane wages was always going to set a bad precedent (when in reality it really shouldn't because no one at the club was near his level) but was there no financial forecasting when they decided to give every player astronomical wages? 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

17 minutes ago, Cicero said:

What amazes me was their poor financial planning regarding player wages. Just who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to give Griezmann nearly half a million a week and players like Sergio Roberto on 170kpw? Even DeJong is almost on 400kpw!

I understand having Messi on insane wages was always going to set a bad precedent (when in reality it really shouldn't because no one at the club was near his level) but was there no financial forecasting when they decided to give every player astronomical wages? 

 

It really does seem like the old Barca board was keen to give players an extra kudos for being signed by Barca by trying to make it the "ultimate destination" for all players and giving them insane wages. Perhaps a better thing to have done was to make the contracts more incentive based (barring Messi because he's Messi).

I think a lot of players are/were just too comfortable on the astronomical wages and often times just expected teams to roll over and die for them. For instance, what Roma and us did to them a few season ago - those were massive comebacks from Roma and Liverpool... but I don't think the prime Barca sides of... really what seems like not too long ago... wouldn't have had the same weak mentality once they faced determined sides that weren't going to go out of the CL without a whimper.

Honestly, it sometimes feels like the last Barca board was planted by Real Madrid.

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do you think Barca will come through this rough patch in their history stronger? It seems their new DOF is incredible competent - getting players to sign contracts that lower their pay (or in Umtiti's case, taking his current pay and spreading it out over several years), they've always had a strong academy and there seem to be some very promising youngsters coming through, and they've now got a club legend as the manager.

And I think Feran Torres will be a brilliant signing for them.

I dunno how bad the financial situation really is - because Barca will sort of have to plan for seasons in advance each season, I think, to account for fixing the finances in the coming years... but it seems like there's a light at the end of the tunnel and there are plans and people in place to make sure Barca's time in the wilderness is short compared to how some European giants have lost their way in the past few decades.

 

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

What amazes me was their poor financial planning regarding player wages. Just who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to give Griezmann nearly half a million a week and players like Sergio Roberto on 170kpw? Even DeJong is almost on 400kpw!

I understand having Messi on insane wages was always going to set a bad precedent (when in reality it really shouldn't because no one at the club was near his level) but was there no financial forecasting when they decided to give every player astronomical wages? 

 

Barça have had financial problems for years even in the second half of the current president’s first tenure. Because the club was making a ton of money and the fountain of gold seemed bottomless, they were reckless and this is the result.

 

Aside from all the financial issues, Barcelona have historically only ever been really successful when a golden generation of youth players have come to pass. Yes they’ve had pinpoint successes without that happening, but not lasting success or the sensation of dominance even if it didn’t result in the trophies it should.

Barça are weird that way... The players and football they had in the last 20 years should’ve meant more Champions Leagues without a doubt because look at what Real Madrid achieved with half the quality. Barcelona really only dominated without being seriously contested in the domestic scene.

 

Barcelona have MAJOR financial issues and it’s gonna take a hell of a job to cure that.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Barça are weird that way... The players and football they had in the last 20 years should’ve meant more Champions Leagues without a doubt because look at what Real Madrid achieved with half the quality. Barcelona really only dominated without being seriously contested in the domestic scene.

In fairness, it's hard to say any club should have won more CL titles. It's probably the hardest tournament in football to win - it's some of the most elite clubs in the world competing for it and imo most good sides elevate the level they play at to rise to the occasion in the knockouts.

I think quality alone isn't enough to guarantee the title, otherwise as you say... without a doubt, they'd have won more with the quality they had. It's a mixture of quality, mentality, and a bit of luck that makes winning the CL possible.

Imo Real Madrid won it 3 times in a row because they had probably the best mentality in the tournament those 3 years they were winning it. They are/were a side with quality all over the pitch, with a mentality that was really frightening tbh, and of course in any good cup run you need enough luck in the knockouts to survive. There were times when I think Barca's mentality in the CL was an expectation they would get through a tie, there are other times I think they were simply unlucky.

I think in later years, with those bad losses to Roma and Barca that sent them out, they definitely had the quality to go through (otherwise they wouldn't have been heavy favourites in either of those second legs, but they very much were) - but they looked absolutely shellshocked in those matches, when all they needed really was one or two moments to kill the tie off. You can see when Gini scored the aggregate equaliser, so many Barca players faces just convey a "oh no, this is happening again" and imo that's sort of a self-fullfilling prophesy. They beat themselves mentally before we beat them actually.

[SirBalon]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In fairness, it's hard to say any club should have won more CL titles. It's probably the hardest tournament in football to win - it's some of the most elite clubs in the world competing for it and imo most good sides elevate the level they play at to rise to the occasion in the knockouts.

I think quality alone isn't enough to guarantee the title, otherwise as you say... without a doubt, they'd have won more with the quality they had. It's a mixture of quality, mentality, and a bit of luck that makes winning the CL possible.

Imo Real Madrid won it 3 times in a row because they had probably the best mentality in the tournament those 3 years they were winning it. They are/were a side with quality all over the pitch, with a mentality that was really frightening tbh, and of course in any good cup run you need enough luck in the knockouts to survive. There were times when I think Barca's mentality in the CL was an expectation they would get through a tie, there are other times I think they were simply unlucky.

I think in later years, with those bad losses to Roma and Barca that sent them out, they definitely had the quality to go through (otherwise they wouldn't have been heavy favourites in either of those second legs, but they very much were) - but they looked absolutely shellshocked in those matches, when all they needed really was one or two moments to kill the tie off. You can see when Gini scored the aggregate equaliser, so many Barca players faces just convey a "oh no, this is happening again" and imo that's sort of a self-fullfilling prophesy. They beat themselves mentally before we beat them actually.

For sure RM had a great side, all winners. But you’ve mentioned ‘mentality’... You don’t get more winning mentality than the players Barça had because not only did they win the domestic honours and the Champions Leagues they did win... the large percentage of that side had the majority of the 2010 World Cup winners and two European Championships in a row. They were born winners! + Messi which isn’t a bad addition to all that.

There was something that didn’t tick right, a small something because the most philosophical football minds have analysed that side and they don’t understand why they couldn’t win back-to-back Champions Leagues.

Be it whatever it may have been, even a mental block when pulling on the Barcelona jersey as you say, it’s weird because for a long while opponents found it hard just to complete 90 minutes let alone compete with them. But then there was that odd anomaly of a certain fragility in the whole process.

[Dr. Gonzo]

34 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

For sure RM had a great side, all winners. But you’ve mentioned ‘mentality’... You don’t get more winning mentality than the players Barça had because not only did they win the domestic honours and the Champions Leagues they did win... the large percentage of that side had the majority of the 2010 World Cup winners and two European Championships in a row. They were born winners! + Messi which isn’t a bad addition to all that.

There was something that didn’t tick right, a small something because the most philosophical football minds have analysed that side and they don’t understand why they couldn’t win back-to-back Champions Leagues.

Be it whatever it may have been, even a mental block when pulling on the Barcelona jersey as you say, it’s weird because for a long while opponents found it hard just to complete 90 minutes let alone compete with them. But then there was that odd anomaly of a certain fragility in the whole process.

I'm not saying that Barca side full of greats lacked a winning mentality. Barca had an era of dominance that most clubs would dream of - you can't get that without a winning mentality. But in the CL, it's a battle of some of the most elite clubs in the world, and even those clubs that aren't "elite" - they're very very good sides that'll probably raise their game against top opposition to meet the occasion (because it's very rare a club rolls over for two legs by the time you get to the quarterfinals, imo).

In a knockout tournament with the prestige of the CL, you're going to need that right mix of quality, mentality, and luck in each round of the tournament you're in to just make it to the final... let alone winning it.

Every year there's at least 3-4 legitimate contenders for the CL that have a reasonable chance of winning it that end up knocked out of the tournament - because it's hard to have that right mix in each stage of the tournament. That's why I don't think it's that surprising that this incredibly talented Barca side never won back-to-back CLs... I think it is incredibly difficult to win a CL, let alone back-to-back.

I think that Zidane's Real Madrid won it 3 years in a row is just an incredible anomaly - I don't think it's normal for a side to be that dominant in European competition and to have that right mix of talent, mentality, and luck 3 years in a row. Especially when Barca were, on paper, a superior team imo (and in your opinion as well). But I'm not sure Real Madrid's incredible achievement should be the barometre for Barca... or even for Real Madrid... or any club for that matter.

The CL is difficult as fuck to win. Even for world class sides.

[Spike]

Barcelona always have young players. They nearly always leave to be mediocre against their projected hype.

[Panna King]

Who needs Pedri when Luuk de Jong is scoring to keep Barcelona alive at moment  

[SirBalon]

9 hours ago, Spike said:

Barcelona always have young players. They nearly always leave to be mediocre against their projected hype.

They don’t always leave but it is true that many of he ones that have left didn’t offer what they were at Barcelona. Quite an oddity.

At Barça they’ll tell you it’s the system + some.

[Carnivore Chris]

On 12/01/2022 at 03:58, Spike said:

Barcelona always have young players. They nearly always leave to be mediocre against their projected hype.

Different situations though. Bojan and Gio Dos Santos would be good examples(in terms of players whose career shot downhill) as they had all the potential in the world and showed it for the first team, before fading off. However Bojan was mentally weak and also suffered from anxiety and depression due to the pressure at a young age. However, you can't compare players like Gai Assulin or Halilovic, who never actually broke into the first team and were just hype as youngsters before going on to achieve nothing, with the current crop of young players who are being lauded. 

There have also been alot of players over the years such as Tello, Deulofeu, Munir, etc, who had been given chances in the first team, but they never actually impressed and you never got a buzz about them like with the players being spoken of, who are already key players and look the real deal.

Araújo is already an established defender(the only good defender at the club) as he's now been a first team regular for 2 seasons and the likes of Pedri, Gavi and Fati(when fit unfortunately) are already key players and some of the first names on the team sheet for both club and country. These are actually proving it against strong sides and the fact they are actually playing regular football is one of the key factors. They are also a group of young lads who have played together either at Barcelona or Spain in the youth teams and understand each others game.

Building a backbone of young La Masia and Spanish talents is what the club have needed to do for years, even before the financial issues became as extreme as they are currently.

There is also the case of La Masia being pretty much neglected in recent years and young players haven't been getting chances, or they may have gone on to become first team regulars at the club, rather than moving elsewhere, which ends up unsettling them or dampening their progression. Or they are simply built to perfectly suit a certain system.

A fine example for me would be Busquets. Had he not been given chances under Pep and had instead been sold abroad, he may not have become the player he is. It makes you wonder if more players would have made it over the years had they actually been given chances. 

On another note, Pedri(albeit not being from La Masia of course, but is one of the young players) bossed that game when he came on last night, and that's without playing for months.

It was the first time all season that the majority of the key players were available at the same time and they played very well despite most of them lacking match fitness. What will this group of players be like if they can now kick on and actually a have run of games playing together? They would have done Madrid last night! It's a quality little group of players already. The defence is horrible though and constant injuries all the time to players is a concern.

[SirBalon]

Great post

[Cicero]

La Cobham

[JoshBRFC+]

On 13/01/2022 at 11:57, Carnivore Chris said:

Different situations though. Bojan and Gio Dos Santos would be good examples(in terms of players whose career shot downhill) as they had all the potential in the world and showed it for the first team, before fading off. However Bojan was mentally weak and also suffered from anxiety and depression due to the pressure at a young age. However, you can't compare players like Gai Assulin or Halilovic, who never actually broke into the first team and were just hype as youngsters before going on to achieve nothing, with the current crop of young players who are being lauded. 

There have also been alot of players over the years such as Tello, Deulofeu, Munir, etc, who had been given chances in the first team, but they never actually impressed and you never got a buzz about them like with the players being spoken of, who are already key players and look the real deal.

Araújo is already an established defender(the only good defender at the club) as he's now been a first team regular for 2 seasons and the likes of Pedri, Gavi and Fati(when fit unfortunately) are already key players and some of the first names on the team sheet for both club and country. These are actually proving it against strong sides and the fact they are actually playing regular football is one of the key factors. They are also a group of young lads who have played together either at Barcelona or Spain in the youth teams and understand each others game.

Building a backbone of young La Masia and Spanish talents is what the club have needed to do for years, even before the financial issues became as extreme as they are currently.

There is also the case of La Masia being pretty much neglected in recent years and young players haven't been getting chances, or they may have gone on to become first team regulars at the club, rather than moving elsewhere, which ends up unsettling them or dampening their progression. Or they are simply built to perfectly suit a certain system.

A fine example for me would be Busquets. Had he not been given chances under Pep and had instead been sold abroad, he may not have become the player he is. It makes you wonder if more players would have made it over the years had they actually been given chances. 

On another note, Pedri(albeit not being from La Masia of course, but is one of the young players) bossed that game when he came on last night, and that's without playing for months.

It was the first time all season that the majority of the key players were available at the same time and they played very well despite most of them lacking match fitness. What will this group of players be like if they can now kick on and actually a have run of games playing together? They would have done Madrid last night! It's a quality little group of players already. The defence is horrible though and constant injuries all the time to players is a concern.

I can genuinely see this bunch of players taking Barcelona back to the top in years to come. Pedri along with the La Masia talents at the club, they are really that good. There's still work to do with the squad in terms of moving players on and an addition here or there. But they're not a million miles away in my opinion. 

Nico, Pedri, Fati, Araujo, Gavi are the pick of the bunch. But there's still more, and they're all so young.

I agree with what you've said before in that they've needed to just stop and rebuild with the youth they have. Short term pain, long term gain... and it almost certainly will be long term gain with that talent. They don't need to be spending ridiculous amounts of money every transfer window.