Man City 2-2 Liverpool - Sunday 10th April, 2022

[Stan]

11 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

I don't think it is fair to single him out individually if it's a tactical thing. And it is tactical. As I say, Liverpool catch teams offside with it, although the flag doesn't always go up because of VAR. And if the CBs or the keeper deal with it then Liverpool are quickly on the attack again.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a favourable and beneficial tactic to employ. It's clearly successful and he sits perfectly in it. I don't see the singling out though?

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a favourable and beneficial tactic to employ. It's clearly successful and he sits perfectly in it. I don't see the singling out though?

Seems like singling out when his mistakes get highlighted and other defenders making mistakes don't really get the same scrutiny. It just seems weird.

[LFCMike]

17 minutes ago, Stan said:

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a favourable and beneficial tactic to employ. It's clearly successful and he sits perfectly in it. I don't see the singling out though?

People do jump on any little mistake he might make. And they do make the mistake of criticising his positioning when teams play balls over to Liverpool's right hand side despite it being a tactical thing.

For the Jesus goal yesterday, I'm pretty sure it was Matip playing Jesus onside and not TAA.

[Rick]

I’ve been a critic of Trent’s defensive abilities because it’s clear as day he isn’t as good defensively as the other three at the back. I don’t understand why we have to pretend that he doesn’t have shortcomings? 
 

Now, though I say that, I still love him in this team and wouldn’t swap him out for any other RB. He’s incredible going forward, and he offers so much to us. But like any other player, he isn’t perfect, and it’s not against the law to get frustrated when he has a particularly bad defensive game. I could give a fuck about Walker or James, I don’t compare him to them. all three have their strengths and weaknesses. The media have no effect on my opinion either, before that one is levelled. And for the record, I’m not putting the blame for the goal yesterday on him.
 

Also, getting back to the game. I don’t understand how anybody can sit there and say we weren’t poor in the first half (save for ten mins round the goal). Yes, City are elite and yes we still drew the game with them in the end but the lack of control in the first half was a problem. Klopp himself said that the first half was not good, so why can’t some other just admit we weren’t at our best in that 45? I don’t get it, it’s just bizarre denial.

Anyhow, the title race is well and truly still on. The second half from us was so much better and we showed city just why we are right up there with them. The attitude after the break was absolutely top knotch. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Rick said:

I’ve been a critic of Trent’s defensive abilities because it’s clear as day he isn’t as good defensively as the other three at the back. I don’t understand why we have to pretend that he doesn’t have shortcomings? 
 

Now, though I say that, I still love him in this team and wouldn’t swap him out for any other RB. He’s incredible going forward, and he offers so much to us. But like any other player, he isn’t perfect, and it’s not against the law to get frustrated when he has a particularly bad defensive game. I could give a fuck about Walker or James, I don’t compare him to them. all three have their strengths and weaknesses. The media have no effect on my opinion either, before that one is levelled. And for the record, I’m not putting the blame for the goal yesterday on him.
 

Also, getting back to the game. I don’t understand how anybody can sit there and say we weren’t poor in the first half (save for ten mins round the goal). Yes, City are elite and yes we still drew the game with them in the end but the lack of control in the first half was a problem. Klopp himself said that the first half was not good, so why can’t some other just admit we weren’t at our best in that 45? I don’t get it, it’s just bizarre denial.

Anyhow, the title race is well and truly still on. Both teams will drop points yet. 

I don't think it's pretending that he doesn't have shortcomings? It's obvious he's not perfect defensively (although nowhere near as much of a donkey as some people like to make him out to be) and he could and should have done better yesterday - but he's not the only defender that made a mistake for that goal. But he was the only defender blamed for it. And he's blamed for our right side getting targeted even though basically any attacking fullback gets their flank targeted by any manager that understands anything about tactics - earlier this season he was blamed for mistakes that came down to Henderson making a mistake in positioning when his flank was targeted. And that was Henderson making a mistake regarding how we're meant to be set up tactically.

There's a weird narrative about him, that he just is constantly full of mistakes when statistically he's... not a bad defender - especially considering the attacking role he has and how he's a primary playmaker (and one of the best passers in the league, regardless of position) that is going to logically have his flank targeted more often than our left flank.

If our whole defense was shit for the first 45 minutes, why is only one defender really getting singled out? Because that's the reality, our defense was dogshit in that first half and it wasn't just Trent. Klopp even explained why his tactics had failed in that first half and what he did to address it - which did work. But his explanation also indicated it wasn't just our back 4, but also the midfield, that needed adjustment.

So why is one player really singled out for his defensive failings in a match where there were many defensive failings from the whole back 4 and midfield that needed to be addressed?

It was more of a tactical issue than an issue of individual errors, but that's not really convenient for the narrative that's pushed. The more simplistic way of looking at it is preferred and I think that's weird tbh.

[Rick]

I don’t even want to single Trent out for yesterday, I’m just commenting on the topic at hand. I thought all four defenders were bad in that first half, particularly Matip. Even Van Dijk  was flapping a handful of times so by no means was it just one player having a bad day. I made a comment yesterday during the game that I thought the whole team weren’t doing good at all. 
 

It’s a hard topic to bring up. The lad does so much good for us going forward that you almost want to ignore his poor moments at the back. Other teams targeting him puts a spotlight on it though, so obviously he will be busier than Robbo is in a game against these lot because they believe they can get at him and the space he leaves by going forwards. That being said, I do think he is particularly poor when it comes to stopping the cross, far too often he lets the ball come across the line without much fight. 
 

But yeah, I’m not singling him out as public enemy number one for yesterday. The whole team were poor in the first 45. 
 

 

[Happy Blue]

For me if a wide players isn't at least 92 speed he gets binned, it's the most important attribute 

[LFCMike]

If Liverpool were as poor as being made out, the game would have been over at half time given how City started.

[Dr. Gonzo]

38 minutes ago, Rick said:

I don’t even want to single Trent out for yesterday, I’m just commenting on the topic at hand. I thought all four defenders were bad in that first half, particularly Matip. Even Van Dijk  was flapping a handful of times so by no means was it just one player having a bad day. I made a comment yesterday during the game that I thought the whole team weren’t doing good at all. 
 

It’s a hard topic to bring up. The lad does so much good for us going forward that you almost want to ignore his poor moments at the back. Other teams targeting him puts a spotlight on it though, so obviously he will be busier than Robbo is in a game against these lot because they believe they can get at him and the space he leaves by going forwards. That being said, I do think he is particularly poor when it comes to stopping the cross, far too often he lets the ball come across the line without much fight. 
 

But yeah, I’m not singling him out as public enemy number one for yesterday. The whole team were poor in the first 45. 
 

 

If anything, I think that first 45 was a good wakeup call for the squad for the rest of the season. If we want to win the CL, there's a strong chance we probably have to play Man City again - or someone that's equally as good. If we want to win the FA Cup we have to get passed this very good City side.

In all honesty, City are the best opponent we've faced this season since we last played City. You can maybe say Inter - and Inter were a tough opponent - but even in that match "Inter dominated" didn't look anywhere near as good as us  and lost 2-0 after not managing a shot on target... they won one leg, but that was a fairly even contest tbh.

City are another level to them and that first 45 minutes was the most I'd seen us outplayed in a very long time.

11 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

If Liverpool were as poor as being made out, the game would have been over at half time given how City started.

That first 45 we really were pretty far from our best. We weren't shit, otherwise City would have blown passed us like they do to other sides in the league and we did fight back. But it wasn't until the tactical adjustments that made us look much stronger than we were in the first half imo.

[RandoEFC+]

It's just as fair to say that Liverpool fans have often been hyper-defensive over TAA's defensive as it is to say that others are hyper-critical. People can point out the odd occasion where his defensive frailties cost the team a goal without them claiming that he's shite or that he isn't a net benefit for Liverpool. I'm not saying this is always the case but on this occasion, in this thread, the TAA-defenders have overreacted to a couple of people pointing out that he was partially at fault for the second goal (which he was). Some of you are now claiming that people are obsessed/fixated/overblowing every defensive mistake he makes when that isn't the case here.

[Happy Blue]

29 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

If Liverpool were as poor as being made out, the game would have been over at half time given how City started.

I think that was more to do with the lack of striker, imagine Haaland on the end of them chances yesterday  it would of been game over at HT

[Stan]

9 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

It's just as fair to say that Liverpool fans have often been hyper-defensive over TAA's defensive as it is to say that others are hyper-critical. People can point out the odd occasion where his defensive frailties cost the team a goal without them claiming that he's shite or that he isn't a net benefit for Liverpool. I'm not saying this is always the case but on this occasion, in this thread, the TAA-defenders have overreacted to a couple of people pointing out that he was partially at fault for the second goal (which he was). Some of you are now claiming that people are obsessed/fixated/overblowing every defensive mistake he makes when that isn't the case here.

You can't criticise Liverpool players anymore.

[LFCMike]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

That first 45 we really were pretty far from our best. We weren't shit, otherwise City would have blown passed us like they do to other sides in the league and we did fight back. But it wasn't until the tactical adjustments that made us look much stronger than we were in the first half imo.

Yeah I'm not saying Liverpool were close to their best but we've seen the words awful, pathetic and poor to describe Liverpool in the first half in this thread. That wasn't the case. Sometimes you just need to hang in there against a side like that and I don't think Liverpool are being given much credit for doing that.

[Cicero]

33 minutes ago, Stan said:

You can't criticise Liverpool players anymore.

TAA is average defensively. 

Walker at his age still makes school boy defensive errors. 

James can't ever complete a season consistently. 

 

All three have their faults and they've all been pointed out. One word about a Liverpool player shit hits the fan. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

39 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Some of you are now claiming that people are obsessed/fixated/overblowing every defensive mistake he makes when that isn't the case here.

My comment's more directed at football fans at large than in here - although I think some of it does spill over from outside opinions to our forum because that's human nature.

It just takes one look at twitter anytime he makes a mistake (and sometimes when a teammate has made a mistake but he gets blamed for it) and compare that to pretty much... any defensive player that's performed at the level he has over the past few years.

It's not like Maguire or Lovren who's making high profile errors almost every week, where he's making a meme out of himself with poor form - and even with them I think some of the meme criticism of them is a bit over the top (like people getting upset Maguire celebrated scoring a goal, even if it was against shit opposition).

I just think it's weird the way the narrative keeps going even though statistically and more weeks than most he's not a bad defender. Or even when the whole side is underpar, he's the one singled out for criticism like the defensive frailties are all his fault.

[MUFC]

Trent Alexander-Arnold.