UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Danny]

A fairly disappointing and tone deaf response. He was a Police Officer, passed all relevant training, you can brush this under the carpet by saying the Police do not view him as Police...they viewed him as Police when they employed him.

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

A fairly disappointing and tone deaf response. He was a Police Officer, passed all relevant training, you can brush this under the carpet by saying the Police do not view him as Police...they viewed him as Police when they employed him.

 

 

I agree with you it's tone deaf...

but realistically, what other statement could be made that isn't tone deaf? Realistically, anyone trying to become a police officer isn't going to outwardly give signs that they're a rapist or a murder.

I think they knew the statement would be tone deaf, but I honestly am not sure they could make any statement that was any less tone deaf that wouldn't further undermine public confidence in the police more than this police officer already undermined public confidence.

I'm also fairly confident Couzens' rape and murder of Sarah Everard made caused a big negative impact on the morale of police officers themselves. And I can see why they'd want to carefully word any public statement to not further undermine the morale of police as well as not further undermine public confidence in the police.

So at the end of the day, I think we get a statement that's a bit bland and tone deaf... but realistically, I can't see them making anything other than a bland tone deaf statement. It's a bit political how they have to respond in public comment, tbh.

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

A fairly disappointing and tone deaf response. He was a Police Officer, passed all relevant training, you can brush this under the carpet by saying the Police do not view him as Police...they viewed him as Police when they employed him.

 

 

Not saying the guy in the video did, but it says a lot when apparently Couzens' was nicknamed by his colleagues as 'the rapist' and wouldn't actually do anything about him or his actions.

It's the most heinous and negligent abuse of power there possibly could be by someone in such authority that should be seen by anyone on the streets as someone that can protect them. Hearing about the specifics, per se, of what he did throughout today in the court hearing was harrowing.

[Danny]

On 29/09/2021 at 21:23, Stan said:

Not saying the guy in the video did, but it says a lot when apparently Couzens' was nicknamed by his colleagues as 'the rapist' and wouldn't actually do anything about him or his actions.

It's the most heinous and negligent abuse of power there possibly could be by someone in such authority that should be seen by anyone on the streets as someone that can protect them. Hearing about the specifics, per se, of what he did throughout today in the court hearing was harrowing.

Yeah it’s pretty shocking that he was never reported, straight up negligence.

Not sure if I’ve read this right but Met police issued a statement saying if you don’t feel comfortable being arrested by police to...wave a bus down?

[Stan]

14 minutes ago, Danny said:

Yeah it’s pretty shocking that he was never reported, straight up negligence.

Not sure if I’ve read this right but Met police issued a statement saying if you don’t feel comfortable being arrested by police to...wave a bus down?

Yeah, pathetic advice from the Mwt. They've waited for sentencing to release this new guidance and advice and they've come up with that absolute bollocks. 

Run away was the other option

 

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Yeah, pathetic advice from the Mwt. They've waited for sentencing to release this new guidance and advice and they've come up with that absolute bollocks. 

Run away was the other option

 

Some victim blaming from North Yorkshire: https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-58762029.amp

[Guest]

It's quite interesting to see the insulate britian protests are still going on. Personally I dont care if it upsets people and causes disruption. Climate change is the most important thing we need to worry about. @RandoEFC what are your thoughts I know you are very concerned about climate change. For me the ends justify the means 

[Stan]

7 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

It's quite interesting to see the insulate britian protests are still going on. Personally I dont care if it upsets people and causes disruption. Climate change is the most important thing we need to worry about. @RandoEFC what are your thoughts I know you are very concerned about climate change. For me the ends justify the means 

What's ironic surely is that with their protests and road blocking, they're keeping cars and lorries on the road for even longer... 

[Honey Honey]

The only use of a disruptive protest is to raise awareness for an issue. Once that is raised the disruption has no benefit and may start to have the opposite effect.

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

What's ironic surely is that with their protests and road blocking, they're keeping cars and lorries on the road for even longer... 

True. But climate change happens because if millions of tons of greenhouse gasses. The disruption they are causing wont add to climate change.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, The Premier Steve's said:

The only use of a disruptive protest is to raise awareness for an issue. Once that is raised the disruption has no benefit and may start to have the opposite effect.

 

 

I'm not sure if that is true. Generally throughout history protests have worked and sometimes they have had to be very disruptive. Also like you said it raises awareness. About 14% of people in the uk say they recycle more and are more environmentally aware because of greta thunberg so these things can help 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Guest

[nudge]

9 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

True. But climate change happens because if millions of tons of greenhouse gasses. The disruption they are causing wont add to climate change.

What about all the additional emissions from stationary vehicles stuck on the motorway, with their engines running for hours?...

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, nudge said:

What about all the additional emissions from stationary vehicles stuck on the motorway, with their engines running for hours?...

Like I said climate change happens because of millions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses. The amount released is unlikely to affect climate change I would imagine. But if they get their desired result it could. Like I said for me ends justify means. If things like this do make a difference I dont care if it annoys a few people 

[DeadLinesman]

7 minutes ago, nudge said:

What about all the additional emissions from stationary vehicles stuck on the motorway, with their engines running for hours?...

The guy heading ‘Insulate Britain’ and protesting hasn’t insulated his own property and drives a diesel Range Rover. Go figure.

[nudge]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

The guy heading ‘Insulate Britain’ and protesting hasn’t insulated his own property and drives a diesel Range Rover. Go figure.

Why doesn't that surprise me...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

The guy heading ‘Insulate Britain’ and protesting hasn’t insulated his own property and drives a diesel Range Rover. Go figure.

In that case hes a twat but the message is still right 

[nudge]

6 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Like I said climate change happens because of millions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses. The amount released is unlikely to affect climate change I would imagine. But if they get their desired result it could. Like I said for me ends justify means. If things like this do make a difference I dont care if it annoys a few people 

Transportation is responsible for about one third of UK's greenhouse gasses emissions. I'd say it's hypocritical (or just dumb) to protest policies that lead to greenhouse emissions and create more said emissions at the same time... 

[Stan]

How did all the Insulate Britain protestors get to the m25? 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, nudge said:

Transportation is responsible for about one third of UK's greenhouse gasses emissions. I'd say it's hypocritical (or just dumb) to protest policies that lead to greenhouse emissions and create more said emissions at the same time... 

Yeah but those extra greenhouse gasses caused by the disruption wont cause more climate change. It's not enough. Like I said who cares if its hypocritical its abiit getting results thats all that  matters 

[Honey Honey]

45 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'm not sure if that is true. Generally throughout history protests have worked and sometimes they have had to be very disruptive.

In British history and culture though? It's very rare for a protest to directly lead to the action the protest is asking for from the government. Typically it is at local council or business level that protests may work. At national level, most of the time action is the result of threat to government power and that threat to power usually comes from public opinion. The British public are overwhelmingly averse to disruptive means even when they might support the cause, examples in this thread may well be Stan and Deadlinesman. The danger with all prolonged disruption is attention shifts from a growth of public opinion for the wider cause to a growth in demand and support for an authority bringing an end to the disruption. As seen with Margaret Thatcher coming to power and staying in power.

 

34 minutes ago, nudge said:

What about all the additional emissions from stationary vehicles stuck on the motorway, with their engines running for hours?...

I don't think that matters. It doesn't have have be a zero sum game. The protesters are asking for the government to immediately refurbish everyone's house in the country. The savings from which would far outstrip the additional emissions from 45 minutes of traffic.

 

26 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

The guy heading ‘Insulate Britain’ and protesting hasn’t insulated his own property and drives a diesel Range Rover. Go figure.

Why does it matter that he hasn't insulated his own property? The protest is asking for the government to pay for it for him.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, The Premier Steve's said:

In British history and culture though? It's very rare for a protest to directly lead to the action the protest is asking for from the government. Typically it is at local council or business level that protests may work. At national level, most of the time action is the result of threat to government power and that threat to power usually comes from public opinion. The British public are overwhelmingly averse to disruptive means even when they might support the cause, examples in this thread may well be Stan and Deadlinesman. The danger with all prolonged disruption is attention shifts from a growth of public opinion for the wider cause to a growth in demand and support for an authority bringing an end to the disruption. As seen with Margaret Thatcher coming to power and staying in power.

 

I don't think that matters. It doesn't have have be a zero sum game. The protesters are asking for the government to immediately refurbish everyone's house in the country. The savings from which would far outstrip the additional emissions from 45 minutes of traffic.

 

Why does it matter that he hasn't insulated his own property? The protest is asking for the government to pay for it for him.

I dont really have enough knowledge of british history to debate you on that. All I will say is whether it will help or not I support there reasons for doing it. I dont care if it annoys people.

[nudge]

19 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Yeah but those extra greenhouse gasses caused by the disruption wont cause more climate change. It's not enough. Like I said who cares if its hypocritical its abiit getting results thats all that  matters 

 

16 minutes ago, The Premier Steve's said:

I don't think that matters. It doesn't have have be a zero sum game. The protesters are asking for the government to immediately refurbish everyone's house in the country. The savings from which would far outstrip the additional emissions from 45 minutes of traffic.

Sure, but do you think the government will immediately refurbish everyone's house because a bunch of people glued themselves to the motorway?... If not, then the only thing their protests achieve is disruption, additional emissions, and alienation of public support.

[DeadLinesman]

19 minutes ago, The Premier Steve's said:

Why does it matter that he hasn't insulated his own property? The protest is asking for the government to pay for it for him.

I think you need to lead by example if I’m honest. If you believe in this so strongly, make sure you’re doing the most. That doesn’t mean only hammer the government, but make yourself personally responsible as well. 

[RandoEFC+]

If your response to a campaigner for a cause you largely agree with is to call them a hypocrite because you can point out one or two things that they aren't doing in their personal lives to contribute to said cause even though they alone make a negligible difference, then you are a part of the problem. It's like when all those angry, balding 50 year old men saw a picture of Greta Thunberg on a plane once and decided that was sufficient evidence to invalidate everything she's ever said or campaigned for.

Insulating homes in Britain would make a large, positive difference. If it was cheap to do, the government would probably just do it, even the Tories. It's not an unreasonable demand from that campaign group. However, as others have said, with both these guys and Extinction Rebellion, their methods are just the absolute worst way to get the public behind them. ER have some particularly extreme idiots in their group who want to "bring down capitalism, man" and stuff like that but my understanding is that they're an environmentalist group who want to slow down climate change. The public broadly agree with taking action to prevent climate change yet Extinction Rebellion have a net -60 or so approval rating with the public because of their blocking of roads and preventing people from going about their lives. It might seem necessary but it's counter productive to their cause.

The Insulate Britain guy is a moron as well. He was on GMB last week and he stormed off stage after being asked simple questions and looked to be one bad sandwich order away from a mental breakdown. If you want to convince people to get on your side then you can't be picking people like that to rally behind as the face of your movement.

The problem is with these groups is that they all get together in this echo chamber, wind each other up about how much the world is against them, end up radicalising themselves and completely losing touch with the people they need to convince to support them before they go and make their case to the public.

The Greenpeace Downing Street advert (look it up) from a couple of months ago was a good example of how to go about these things. It was powerful without disrupting anyone's day to day life so when it got them trending on social media platforms people saw the British government portrayed in a negative light for not taking enough action rather than the campaigners themselves.

[RandoEFC+]

9 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I think you need to lead by example if I’m honest. If you believe in this so strongly, make sure you’re doing the most. That doesn’t mean only hammer the government, but make yourself personally responsible as well. 

How best to make a difference, spend what amounts to multiple year's worth of savings to an average British worker to insulate one home, or campaign to get the government to invest money in insulating millions of them? As much as I take issue with the form of protest not convincing the majority of the British public to get behind them, here we are discussing it now. Two weeks ago I didn't even realise how much of a difference insulating homes would make to emissions, here we are discussing it and now I've learned how much it would cost an average home as well. I might be in a minority of less than 1% and I might be able to do just about fuck all about it because I like 99% of the country don't have £20,000 lying around, but as much as I think the Insulate Britain guy is a bit of an embarrassment and their protest was done badly, it's raised my awareness of the situation so on some level, we have to concede that's a small success for them.