UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

5 hours ago, Stan said:

Also this. 

 

 

Yeah it's one poll and the election is a long way off but it's interesting in that second scenario that the only possible majority government would he a LAB-SNP or CON-SNP coalition. Probably whichever one agrees to a second independence referendum. Both major parties need to work out what their strategy is for convincing Scottish people that they should vote to stay with the UK again instead of just trying to figure out how to deny them the referendum, which seems to be the only strategy the current government have up their sleeves.

[Honey Honey]

Isn't that an ok strategy though? Free shot at a big chunk of the Scottish electorate in doing so. The SNP often spend more on campaigning than Labour and the Conservatives combined in Scotland. The dilemma is whether it is worth Labour directing more funds to Scotland rather than marginal seats in England and Wales.  You'd be hard pushed to make a case that it is worth bothering competing with the SNP right now. The risk of doing so is to lose a general election. You'll probably get a better return on investment by targeting seats in England and Wales to bring about a majority. Whilst rUK is so easily swung and the SNP so entrenched, Scotland will be trapped in an unhealthy electoral state. 

[RandoEFC+]

On 14/11/2021 at 09:27, Honey Honey said:

Isn't that an ok strategy though? Free shot at a big chunk of the Scottish electorate in doing so. The SNP often spend more on campaigning than Labour and the Conservatives combined in Scotland. The dilemma is whether it is worth Labour directing more funds to Scotland rather than marginal seats in England and Wales.  You'd be hard pushed to make a case that it is worth bothering competing with the SNP right now. The risk of doing so is to lose a general election. You'll probably get a better return on investment by targeting seats in England and Wales to bring about a majority. Whilst rUK is so easily swung and the SNP so entrenched, Scotland will be trapped in an unhealthy electoral state. 

Yeah if I was Labour I'd probably accept the prospect of coalition with SNP and just make sure I won enough seats in England and Wales to deny the Tories enough seats for a majority. Got to have a plan for the independence referendum though because if Scotland leave the UK we're probably consigned to permanent Tory rule.

Anyway, came in this thread with nothing new, but every so often I get surprised again at the openness with which the Conservative party tells us exactly who they are (a lot of them anyway) whilst still being able to convince enough of the country that they're acting in their interests to stay almost constantly in power.

 

[Stan]

Why am I not surprised... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

There is something that is quite concerning for me. Although I think boris is a lying despicable person, and the worst prime minister in my time. The next one could be worse. I mean I actually would consider leaving the country if Jacob reese mogg was prime minister. Gove is probably as bad as boris. Sunak is the best of a bad bunch. Although I think he voted to let children starve so he is still a massive cunt. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

There is something that is quite concerning for me. Although I think boris is a lying despicable person, and the worst prime minister in my time. The next one could be worse. I mean I actually would consider leaving the country if Jacob reese mogg was prime minister. Gove is probably as bad as boris. Sunak is the best of a bad bunch. Although I think he voted to let children starve so he is still a massive cunt. 

I dunno if we'll ever have a PM as bad as David Cameron, although Boris could run him close just because he was PM during big moments in our recent history (the man to lead us through Brexit, lol, and also the pandemic) and he's just fucking inept. But I will forever associate Cameron as the man who set the UK on the downward spiral we've seen for some time and will probably keep seeing for some time.

The state of political leadership in the UK is an absolute joke, I dunno if there's any MP out there that I know of that I think would make a good PM.

God help us if Gove ends up PM  - he's as inept as they come and lacks any of the charisma (if you want to call it that) that BoJo the clown has. I feel it'd be the same as having Boris in charge, just more detestable.

[Guest]

@Dr. Gonzo I think a vote on the UK's membership was inevitable to be fair. Im not sure if Cameron can be blamed for that. Boris was the one who told all the lies and had a prominent part in happening. Then again he cant be blamed if people are stupid enough to believe someone who got fired from a newspaper  for lying. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Guest

[Stan]

What a tit

Hypocritical twat. 

 

 

[Stan]

He's off his rocker. Like, absolutely lost his head. 

 

[Waylander]

In one of my last jobs before COV-ID was working alongside consultants and one had a daughter obsessed with Peppa Pig and yes they went to Peppa Pig World. 

Peppa Pig worth £6bn to the economy, not to be sniffed at for me   

[Azeem]

 

[RandoEFC+]

Sunak/Truss in charge by the next election selling another "we're not like the old Tories from the last 5 elections" Tory campaign that the electorate fall for again?

[Bluewolf]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

He's off his rocker. Like, absolutely lost his head. 

 

Nothing new there... Russell Howard sums him up perfectly in this.. 

 

[Stan]

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

The proposed plan to strip drug users of their passports is bizarre.

[Stan]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

The proposed plan to strip drug users of their passports is bizarre.

Yeah, odd one.

Let's make their lives even more of a misery by taking away their ID. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Yeah, odd one.

Let's make their lives even more of a misery by taking away their ID. 

I think withdrawing passports is illegal under existing human rights laws, but probably why the tories want to abolish the European Human Rights Act & withdraw the UK from the ECHR - replacing the existing rules with the British Bill of Rights.

This would allow parliament to change human rights laws with the stroke of a pen as they see fit. One thing that's suspected of coming from it is locking up assylum seekers... but for ordinary British people, I think there are a lot of valid concerns to be had here and the whittling away of rights for British people.

Taking away these peoples' passports restricts their ability to travel - which has already been a bit more restricted than normal because we're not part of the EU anymore so free movement between EU countries isn't really possible either. The cynic in me wonders if ability to travel is being specifically targeted by certain corporate interests - because at the end of the day, I personally think this idea of having easily changeable human rights is probably to allow for erosion of our existing rights to push a "social agenda" that benefits certain corporate interests.

[RandoEFC+]

With the reports of cocaine being found in toilets across the Houses of Parliament this weekend, how many MPs and indeed government ministers will be handing over their passports .

[The Artful Dodger]

I'm torn on this one. Cocaine is a pretty horrible drug. We tend to paint it as 'evil drug dealers flooding the place with these evil drugs against our will', but ultimately there is supply because there is demand. 

Now I'm not saying you should be slung in jail for one offence, or have your career prospects ruined but I'd enforce some sort of two strikes and you're going to court. I'm talking about causal users here, obviously people with addiction issues need serious help too. I'm pretty soft on other drugs in terms of legalisation but I really do think cocaine is drug which can only change people for the worse.

There's a larger point here too, what sort of society produces a majority which have to get out of their head to either enjoy themselves or forget themselves? I certainly include myself in that but perhaps it's not the pinnacle of human life that we're led to believe and we should focus on making fundamental changes to how we live.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by The Artful Dodger

[Dr. Gonzo]

42 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I'm torn on this one. Cocaine is a pretty horrible drug. We tend to paint it as 'evil drug dealers flooding the place with these evil drugs against our will', but ultimately there is supply because there is demand. 

Now I'm not saying you should be slung in jail for one offence, or have your career prospects ruined but I'd enforce some sort of two strikes and you're going to court. I'm talking about causal users here, obviously people with addiction issues need serious help too. I'm pretty soft on other drugs in terms of legalisation but I really do think cocaine is drug which can only change people for the worse.

There's a larger point here too, what sort of society produces a majority which have to get out of their head to either enjoy themselves or forget themselves? I certainly include myself in that but perhaps it's not the pinnacle of human life that we're led to believe and we should focus on making fundamental changes to how we live.

 

I agree with you that cocaine is a horrible drug that can absolutely change people for the worse. And when people are addicted but can no longer afford it, they can turn to even more dangerous drugs and that leads to worse addiction with worse societal effects. Cocaine and heroin are horrible enough and have the potential to destroy lives on their own - but the cheaper "alternatives" are arguably more devestating, and addiction to those 2 drugs can eventually lead to meth/crack use (with cocaine) and opioid abuse (with heroin).

If you end up addicted to either of these, it's easy to get on a downward slope that will likely impact you and the people in your life really negatively.

But taking away passports is weird because: 1.) it's not really related to drug use, it's a bit of just a generally strange penalty; 2.) it does fuck all for the underlying issue of combatting dangerous drug use.

As a former cocaine addict and someone who generally struggles with addiction (because I've definitely developed a bit of a bad drinking habit after COVID), I definitely agree that something should be done about drug addiction - but as you say, there's underlying societal issues that are the root of the demand for drugs. Because the demand is there and it's not going anywhere despite being illegal (that just creates a black market, which presents opportunities for organised crime) and harsher penalties for drug use.

When considering withdrawing passports is typically considered a human rights violation and this penalty doesn't really have much to do with the underlying crime and issues of drug addiction... it's just really hard for me to get my head around.

[The Artful Dodger]

Yeah, I don't get the passport idea at all. Oscar and Harold will just do their beak in their Hampstead apartment rather than St Tropez.

Edited December 6, 2021 by The Artful Dodger

[Waylander]

I don't see a problem getting rid of the EU human rights, the way it has been abused to go after old veterans that served in N.I was deplorable.

Also like others have said we have  the bill of rights and also we have the H of L that can delay legislation if they don't like it and as it is full of political appointments so they  will make political capital if the govt try to push any thing too dodgy through.

On asylum seekers we should be taking a lot back to their own countries especially young African males who are mainly economic migrants.

The Middle Eastern ones are more difficult to judge due to our participation in dodgy ME conflicts.

Until we start repatriating ( forget France) the obvious chancers no-one will take us seriously.

[RandoEFC+]

Big strong Britain 5th biggest economy in the world, we can handle Brexit. Can't afford to do our part as a 'world leader' though and take a fair share of refugees and asylum seekers into the country, and certainly not when we're short on labour in multiple sectors that used to be filled by foreign or seasonal workers. But we can keep making the false claim about "they're supposed to stop in the first safe country" with a straight face which not only isn't a part of the Geneva convention but conveniently precludes us from taking ANY refugees unless things really kick off in Iceland or Ireland or France.

Murdoch has done a cracking job with his life's work really. You can't even suggest that maybe we should accept a few more migrants across our borders anymore without getting the hysterical "YOU'D JUST LET ANYONE IN WOULDN'T YA, HOW'S DA NHS SPOSED TO COPE" in response.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

Murdoch has done a cracking job with his life's work really. You can't even suggest that maybe we should accept a few more migrants across our borders anymore without getting the hysterical "YOU'D JUST LET ANYONE IN WOULDN'T YA, HOW'S DA NHS SPOSED TO COPE" in response.

Not like they really give a shit about how the NHS is supposed to cope because so many of them want to privitise the NHS 

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Not like they really give a shit about how the NHS is supposed to cope because so many of them want to privitise the NHS 

Far too many middle managers haven't you heard? Big Dave and Honest Bob were telling me all about it down the pub last Wednesday.