Mason Mount Joins Manchester United

[Danny]

16 minutes ago, Spike said:

Sure he had a down season but he is young still and an academy graduate. Chelsea have a long history of letting players go too early, Rice, Abraham, de Bruyne, Lukaku, Salah. It’s so embarrassing if they had any sort of patience they could easily field a starting XI just from recent academy graduates in the last five years. They had a bit of a golden generation just not happen.

Colwill wants out too because he doesn’t feel wanted by them

[Redcanuck]

On 24/05/2023 at 14:36, Devil said:

One of those players you just can't get excited about. Is a big enough upgrade on what we have already?

I'm not sure he is at that price.

I agree fully.  I thought the 55 million talked about was what Chelsea wanted , not what United offered.  I think the offer should be inline what Chelsea are asking for Kovacic.

[Lucas]

I feel like he's going as a squad player from one club to another personally but as uninspiring as it is for them, I'm guessing they prefer him over say Sabitzer because of the felxibility he can offer.

I suppose with Mount, he can be a 10 to compete/rotate with Bruno, drop back a bit and rotate with Eriksen in that role, or go out to that left side spot across the front three so Rashford can stay central given how unreliable Martial's fitness is.

Not sure Sabitzer offers all that.

[Cicero]

17 minutes ago, Spike said:

Sure he had a down season but he is young still and an academy graduate. Chelsea have a long history of letting players go too early, Rice, Abraham, de Bruyne, Lukaku, Salah. It’s so embarrassing if they had any sort of patience they could easily field a starting XI just from recent academy graduates in the last five years. They had a bit of a golden generation just not happen.

But the goal of the club isn't to field as many academy graduates. It's to compete. 

I'd say Rice and Musiala are the only 2 academy players in a list of hundreds that can walk straight into this team, and even then the club did everything to get Musiala to stay. If they are good enough, they'll play. As far as talent goes, KDB and Salah are two exceptions in a list of hundreds of players we let go, and even then we don't know if they'd reach their world class status without Pep or Klopp's influence. Again, these are the expections. No one talks about the Kakutas, Musonda Jrs, Piazons, Bogas, Bamfords,  McEachrans, Hectors, Wallaces, Cuevas, Omerous, Hutcinsons, Pasalics, Manciennes, Traores, Solankes, Kalas', Brewsters, Feruzs, Van Ginkels, Atsus (RIP) Kenedys, Bakers, or the other hundreds of players people said we'd regret selling. And you are right, we did have a bit of a golden generation, to which some academy players got in the way of others. Only Lamptey and Livramento would've arguably had a decent shot here but they had Reece James in their way. Guehi had Chalobah in his way. 

It's important to keep a hold of the club's identity during this rebuild period but the club have been trying to resign Mount since before the World Cup. Club isn't blindly cashing in as some would like you to believe. Romano reported the club have offered him 3 different deals since January, to which the biggest disparity is image rights and wages. 

16 minutes ago, Danny said:

Colwill wants out too because he doesn’t feel wanted by them

If Poch wasn't coming in I'd think he'd force a move. 

[Spike]

41 minutes ago, Cicero said:

But the goal of the club isn't to field as many academy graduates. It's to compete. 

I'd say Rice and Musiala are the only 2 academy players in a list of hundreds that can walk straight into this team, and even then the club did everything to get Musiala to stay. If they are good enough, they'll play. As far as talent goes, KDB and Salah are two exceptions in a list of hundreds of players we let go, and even then we don't know if they'd reach their world class status without Pep or Klopp's influence. Again, these are the expections. No one talks about the Kakutas, Musonda Jrs, Piazons, Bogas, Bamfords,  McEachrans, Hectors, Wallaces, Cuevas, Omerous, Hutcinsons, Pasalics, Manciennes, Traores, Solankes, Kalas', Brewsters, Feruzs, Van Ginkels, Atsus (RIP) Kenedys, Bakers, or the other hundreds of players people said we'd regret selling. And you are right, we did have a bit of a golden generation, to which some academy players got in the way of others. Only Lamptey and Livramento would've arguably had a decent shot here but they had Reece James in their way. Guehi had Chalobah in his way. 

It's important to keep a hold of the club's identity during this rebuild period but the club have been trying to resign Mount since before the World Cup. Club isn't blindly cashing in as some would like you to believe. Romano reported the club have offered him 3 different deals since January, to which the biggest disparity is image rights and wages. 

If Poch wasn't coming in I'd think he'd force a move. 

That is the point of an academy and they put a lot of money into it. They spend billions and don’t compete.  
 

I also think it is disingenuous comparing all of the players listed with de Bruyne and Salah. They were in demand European footballers that had already proved themselves with club experience. Everyone could see their quality by the time Chelsea sold.I think you are just trying to rationalise and cope over a decade of mismanagement and personnel failure.

Pluralising people’s names is stupid.

[Cicero]

20 minutes ago, Spike said:

That is the point of an academy and they put a lot of money into it. They spend billions and don’t compete.  
 

I also think it is disingenuous comparing all of the players listed with de Bruyne and Salah. They were in demand European footballers that had already proved themselves with club experience. Everyone could see their quality by the time Chelsea sold.I think you are just trying to rationalise and cope over a decade of mismanagement and personnel failure.

Pluralising people’s names is stupid.

And if they are good enough, they'll play. 

Reuben Loftus-Cheek, both Chalobah brothers, James, Mount, Abraham, CHO, Tomori, Gallagher, and now Hall have all been given opportunities at this club. Colwill is now the next to  be given a shot. Of this list, only Reece James is good enough to cement a spot in the XI. Mount is a good player but at best he is a multi-use cog in an already well functioning machine.

Salah went to Roma and KDB to Wolfsburg. If they were the most in demand European footballers at the time we sold them I'd expect a queue of bigger clubs after them, much like Hazard was when it was a 4 way bout between Real, United, City and Chelsea. They were players with potential that needed game time at clubs who were willing to give it to them, only then were they sought after by Europe's elite. 

As far as mismanagement goes, not putting buy options was the biggest mistake. Vaguely remember Salah but KDB actually showed some ability to warrant a stay but Mourinho preferred Oscar and Willian. 

 

[Spike]

‘Good enough they will play’ is absolute nonsense 

If that’s how you really feel we are never going to reach a conclusion 

[Bluewolf]

Well if he does go and it very much looks like he is I wonder what they will be paying him?? Like I said before I understand him wanting more money as he was only on £80-90K compared to Reece James who is on a reported £250K and you might have hoped they would at least be offering him £200K as he is a solid if unspectacular player, well, for us at least so you might expect him to move for something around that figure to go elsewhere or it wouldn't make sense why he wouldn't want to stay unless of course he is seeing his playing time being limited by all the new arrivals?? I mean good luck to him, he has never really put a foot wrong with us regarding his on field attitude but if things are not falling into place with him for whatever reason then it's logical that they allow him to leave while we can still get a fee for him.. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

And if they are good enough, they'll play. 

Reuben Loftus-Cheek, both Chalobah brothers, James, Mount, Abraham, CHO, Tomori, Gallagher, and now Hall have all been given opportunities at this club. Colwill is now the next to  be given a shot. Of this list, only Reece James is good enough to cement a spot in the XI. Mount is a good player but at best he is a multi-use cog in an already well functioning machine.

Salah went to Roma and KDB to Wolfsburg. If they were the most in demand European footballers at the time we sold them I'd expect a queue of bigger clubs after them, much like Hazard was when it was a 4 way bout between Real, United, City and Chelsea. They were players with potential that needed game time at clubs who were willing to give it to them, only then were they sought after by Europe's elite. 

As far as mismanagement goes, not putting buy options was the biggest mistake. Vaguely remember Salah but KDB actually showed some ability to warrant a stay but Mourinho preferred Oscar and Willian. 

 

I don't think it's true that only James has been good enough to cement a spot. For a while Mount was a regular at Chelsea and a pretty decent performer. I think the way Chelsea have used their academy to fund the transfer excessiveness that, in all honesty, has led Chelsea to the state it's in now... has been pretty wasteful. A lot of those players you listed as "not good enough" I think are certainly good enough to be squad players at Chelsea instead of bringing in some mercenary who's not going to give a fuck when things go bad at the club or if they decide they don't like working with a manager anymore.

Putting faith in manager decisions over signing promising players and then letting them go because the manager wants someone more "established" and "ready for first team football" only really works out if there's some kind of semblance of a manager being given a long term to shape the squad. That's never really been the case at Chelsea for well over a decade now - managers are viewed as more replaceable than players tbh.

I don't think Mount is the greatest midfielder out there, but he's got a knack for getting in good positions and scoring (at least he did before this season when Chelsea were just pathetic)... but there's got to be something about him managers like given he was a pretty regular fixture and consistent performer for a couple of years. And it's not really until Potter & Lampard that he really of fell out with any managers. Are those the Chelsea managers that demonstrated the best judgment over however many years it's been of Chelsea having high expectations? I'm not sure he fits in that great with United... because he's best in the same role that ratboy plays in, and tbh I think ratboy is a better player. But I think Chelsea are letting a good player that's come through their academy slip through their hands here to take some more risks on the transfer market.

It might not be true or not, but I think Chelsea needing to clear their dressing room of toxicity from players is a big thing if Poch is to have any success as Chelsea manager... and I suspect a player that's proven they can perform for Chelsea over multiple seasons before the wheels popped the fuck off this season after coming through the academy is the least of their worries in that regard. But that's assuming Boehly is going to have Chelsea operate more like a normal football club - which tbh he hasn't demonstrated and tbh has sort of acted like Abramovich on crack.

But I don't think the way Chelsea operates is really sustainable and I don't think it's the best use of the academy. It worked for them under Abramovich... but I think Abramovich had a hell of a lot better understanding of football than Boehly. And I'm not sure it's going to work against a state funded side that's actually acted with long term stability in mind - and now the league might have 2 of those.

[Bluewolf]

31 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But that's assuming Boehly is going to have Chelsea operate more like a normal football club - which tbh he hasn't demonstrated and tbh has sort of acted like Abramovich on crack.

The difference between them is that when Abramovich rang the changes we saw an improvement at the very least or at best even going on to win Cups from positions that didn't seem likely at the time... Boehlyvich has a lot to answer for this season the way he has gone about business and  without a shadow of a doubt it has cast a dark cloud over the club this season... 

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't think it's true that only James has been good enough to cement a spot. For a while Mount was a regular at Chelsea and a pretty decent performer. I think the way Chelsea have used their academy to fund the transfer excessiveness that, in all honesty, has led Chelsea to the state it's in now... has been pretty wasteful. A lot of those players you listed as "not good enough" I think are certainly good enough to be squad players at Chelsea instead of bringing in some mercenary who's not going to give a fuck when things go bad at the club or if they decide they don't like working with a manager anymore.

Putting faith in manager decisions over signing promising players and then letting them go because the manager wants someone more "established" and "ready for first team football" only really works out if there's some kind of semblance of a manager being given a long term to shape the squad. That's never really been the case at Chelsea for well over a decade now - managers are viewed as more replaceable than players tbh.

I don't think Mount is the greatest midfielder out there, but he's got a knack for getting in good positions and scoring (at least he did before this season when Chelsea were just pathetic)... but there's got to be something about him managers like given he was a pretty regular fixture and consistent performer for a couple of years. And it's not really until Potter & Lampard that he really of fell out with any managers. Are those the Chelsea managers that demonstrated the best judgment over however many years it's been of Chelsea having high expectations? I'm not sure he fits in that great with United... because he's best in the same role that ratboy plays in, and tbh I think ratboy is a better player. But I think Chelsea are letting a good player that's come through their academy slip through their hands here to take some more risks on the transfer market.

It might not be true or not, but I think Chelsea needing to clear their dressing room of toxicity from players is a big thing if Poch is to have any success as Chelsea manager... and I suspect a player that's proven they can perform for Chelsea over multiple seasons before the wheels popped the fuck off this season after coming through the academy is the least of their worries in that regard. But that's assuming Boehly is going to have Chelsea operate more like a normal football club - which tbh he hasn't demonstrated and tbh has sort of acted like Abramovich on crack.

But I don't think the way Chelsea operates is really sustainable and I don't think it's the best use of the academy. It worked for them under Abramovich... but I think Abramovich had a hell of a lot better understanding of football than Boehly. And I'm not sure it's going to work against a state funded side that's actually acted with long term stability in mind - and now the league might have 2 of those.

I think you'd have a point if the bulk of our academy players were content with being squad players. Only player that values this role is Chalobah and possibly Gallagher. Once these players taste first team football its difficult for them them to understand they could be rotation options.  All others left because they didn't see pathways to the starting XI. Some of which were road blocked by other academy players (Chalobah and Guehi, James and Lamptey/Livramento, Hall and Maatsen) and others were given opportunities but showed they weren't good enough to start, ala Tomori, CHO and Abraham. 

Issue with Mount is that he doesn't have a defined position anymore. Doesn't have the tactical awareness to play in midfield which is why both Tuchel/Potter never played him there. His best football came as an inside forward where he disrupted the other's team build up. It's why I've always said that Mount in the right set up can be a useful tool, but not one to build the team around. I think its quite convenient (not directed at yourself) that fans are saying the club are mistreating Mount and will regret letting him go when since the Euros these same fans were pulling their hair out seeing Mount starting for England and questioning what he's actually good at. Mount is an excellent squad player to have but not someone the club should be bending over backwards for. 

I think in time we will see better decision from the club. Right now there needs to be better organisation and balance. 

- For example, outright appointing Nagelsmann would've been a mistake.

- Clearlake removing responsibilities from Boehly. 

- Giving the responsibility to Winstanley and Stewart to do a thorough search, and its clear as day Poch is the best suited for this club for where its currently at.

- Incentivised contacts will help our wage structure.

- Giving Poch a 3 year deal as opposed to Potter's 6 year deal. 

- Squad is now being trimmed which was desperately needed.

- Club entrusting Poch in not wanting Felix. 

- Players who actually have a future here will be the only ones sent out on loan (per Telegraph)

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

I think you'd have a point if the bulk of our academy players were content with being squad players. Only player that values this role is Chalobah and possibly Gallagher. All others left because they didn't see pathways to the starting XI. Some of which were road blocked by other academy players (Chalobah and Guehi, James and Lamptey/Livramento, Hall and Maatsen) and others were given opportunities but showed they weren't good enough to start, ala Tomori, CHO and Abraham. 

Issue with Mount is that he doesn't have a defined position anymore. Doesn't have the tactical awareness to play in midfield which is why both Tuchel/Potter never played him there. His best football came as an inside forward where he disrupted the other's team build up. It's why I've always said that Mount in the right set up can be a useful tool, but not one to build the team around. I think its quite convenient (not directed at yourself) that fans are saying the club are mistreating Mount and will regret letting him go when since the Euros these same fans were pulling their hair out seeing Mount starting for England and questioning what he's actually good at. Mount is an excellent squad player to have but not someone the club should be bending over backwards for. 

I think in time we will see better decision from the club. Right now there needs to be better organisation and balance. 

- For example, outright appointing Nagelsmann would've been a mistake.

- Clearlake removing responsibilities from Boehly. 

- Giving the responsibility to Winstanley and Stewart to do a thorough search, and its clear as day Poch is the best suited for this club for where its currently at.

- Incentivised contacts will help our wage structure.

- Squad is now being trimmed which was desperately needed.

- Club entrusting Poch in not wanting Felix. 

- Players who actually have a future here will be the only ones sent out on loan (per Telegraph)

 

Imo I think Tomori & Abraham would have also been good squad players. Tomori's done enough to suggest he's a competent CB given his time in Italy. Abraham probably wouldn't be a regular starter... but I think he'd have gotten fairly regular minutes, especially last season - he's not prolific but he's energetic in the box and players like him open up chances.

I think Mount's a good player, I just don't think he's necessarily good enough to be a nailed on starter for England (I know that comment wasn't directed at me lol - just giving my perspective) - I think some matches are suited for him and some aren't. I think he's more valuable to Chelsea than he is to United, as a homegrown player though, but that's mostly because I think the role he does best in at United is already filled by a better player.

Tbh I do think Chelsea need a massive clear out & incentive based contracts are the right way forward to keep players hungry for success.

[Cicero]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Imo I think Tomori & Abraham would have also been good squad players. Tomori's done enough to suggest he's a competent CB given his time in Italy. Abraham probably wouldn't be a regular starter... but I think he'd have gotten fairly regular minutes, especially last season - he's not prolific but he's energetic in the box and players like him open up chances.

I think Mount's a good player, I just don't think he's necessarily good enough to be a nailed on starter for England (I know that comment wasn't directed at me lol - just giving my perspective) - I think some matches are suited for him and some aren't. I think he's more valuable to Chelsea than he is to United, as a homegrown player though, but that's mostly because I think the role he does best in at United is already filled by a better player.

Tbh I do think Chelsea need a massive clear out & incentive based contracts are the right way forward to keep players hungry for success.

Both good squad options I agree but what can we do if they wanted first team football? If a European club if offering that to them it's going to be difficult to keep them. Chalobah and Gallagher are the only players to turn down moves so far and it's important to keep them. 

Mount to United I'm actually not that bothered. Yet.

Had he moved to Liverpool I would've been as I actually see what Klopp would do, which would play both MacAllister and Mount between the lines. 

 

[Spike]

Tammy Abraham is better than any striker Chelsea has had since Diego Costa.

Mount - Abraham - Sterling would be a better attack than anything Chelsea hodge-podged together in the last two years.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Cicero said:

Both good squad options I agree but what can we do if they wanted first team football? If a European club if offering that to them it's going to be difficult to keep them. Chalobah and Gallagher are the only players to turn down moves so far and it's important to keep them. 

Mount to United I'm actually not that bothered. Yet.

Had he moved to Liverpool I would've been as I actually see what Klopp would do, which would play both MacAllister and Mount between the lines. 

 

I genuinely don't think Mount would have fit in well with us at all. Not that he's a terrible player or anything... but that he just really doesn't fit into how we have our central midfielders play. I'd rather we keep developing Harvey Elliott into the sort of CM we want him to be than spend a lot of money to put Mount in the side ahead of him - I think Mount's the better player now, but Elliott's got a higher ceiling with the potential he has. And he'd be probably last choice in the front 3, only getting chances there with injury and suspension issues arising. 

[OrangeKhrush]

the good news is that it will mean that other targets will remain open as man United need other key areas, I doubt they can afford a CB, two midfielders and a marquee forward that's 300m plus on a man United diet.

[Spike]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I genuinely don't think Mount would have fit in well with us at all. Not that he's a terrible player or anything... but that he just really doesn't fit into how we have our central midfielders play. I'd rather we keep developing Harvey Elliott into the sort of CM we want him to be than spend a lot of money to put Mount in the side ahead of him - I think Mount's the better player now, but Elliott's got a higher ceiling with the potential he has. And he'd be probably last choice in the front 3, only getting chances there with injury and suspension issues arising. 

Yeah nah, but it is always good to have that one player that does things a bit differently to the rest. Klopp is a great coach, he'd work with Mount to get where they need to be.

[Rick]

I’m not upset because I think some of the names we are being linked with are exciting (and it looks like we have Mac Allister tied up) but I do think he is going to be a good signing for Utd. Which is annoying. Not a clue what Chelsea are playing at, he could be brilliant under Poch. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

18 hours ago, Spike said:

Yeah nah, but it is always good to have that one player that does things a bit differently to the rest. Klopp is a great coach, he'd work with Mount to get where they need to be.

I think for the money and the wages, we probably don't want another sort of Darwin Nunez situation... where he's a good player but it's not immediately obvious where he best fits in with the current squad. We've already got Elliott we're molding from someone who's more natural as a 10 or on the wings into a deeper lying midfielder and I'd rather not cause further impediments to his development by putting in a similar, yet much further along in his development player. For the money and the wages, players that fit in more obviously to our style of play - like Mac Allister & that holding midfielder we've been linked to who's name I can't remember... I think that's more what we need right now after this wasted season.

[Cicero]

Latest offer he turned down was 200kpw, 5 year deal. 
 

 

[Dave]

 

 

[Dave]

 

 

[Cicero]

Think with the sales made last night/this morning we've reached the FFP threshold for the fiscal year. Gives the club a bit more leverage now with Mount. 

Think this gets done. Maybe 5-10m disparity. 

[Dave]

 

 

[Cicero]

Think it gets rejected again. 

With Kovacic and Havertz deals looking to go through, on top of the Saudi deals for the 6 other players, club has more leverage to wait now that they've seemingly earned enough funds for comply with FFP.