Subscriber Dan+ Posted October 5, 2018 Subscriber Posted October 5, 2018 I get all of these things but do think a lot of it is pride in your own city. Although I don't know how I'd feel if we had two clubs from this city. Are you from the south west?
Spike Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 On 04/10/2018 at 15:50, Danny said: The focus on television viewers, moreso people who've never attended a game rather than people who did but can't for whatever reason. Clubs pander to television money, viewership around the world. But the people that really matter are the people that when they can, attend as many matches as they can. People who watch on television should not be given priority over fans who go to games, travel the length of the country, spend their hard earned money on a match day. Football has just became a silver screen drama that panders towards a worldwide viewership and ignores the local lifebloods of the game. If it all went bust tomorrow, and the money disappeared, the viewership gone, you'd still have the people the clubs were made for lining up local pubs and getting ready for a Saturday afternoon kick off. Even to watch amateurs. Locals aren't lifeblood anymore. You said it yourself, its all about TV. If all the locals disappeared, you'd still have all the TV viewership and money.
Guest Posted October 5, 2018 Posted October 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, Dan said: I get all of these things but do think a lot of it is pride in your own city. Although I don't know how I'd feel if we had two clubs from this city. Are you from the south west? Yeah I'm from Bristol. When I started liking football I didn't know anything about it. Thought the Bristol clubs were like pub teams. I've never watched either play apart from when I went with a few kids from school 2 times. Always feel that I shouldn't as I'm an arsenal supporter. I just want them both to do well.
carefreeluke Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 Chelsea get quite a lot of stick for songs and mostly of which I quite funny but at the same time in our community there's an awful lot of good variation compared to most clubs. Nevertheless, at the same time Chelsea is a fan base which is guilty of the generic stuff as well and for the most part I never join in. I can't think of a fanbase in England which doesn't spout that sort of typical stuff apart from Man United and Liverpool. The worst thing is that you get fully grown men still chuckling to it, they start singing 'is this a library' like it's the first time it's ever been sung. Don't get me wrong I've had some amazing moments in away ends and elsewhere following Chelsea but at times you can't hide away from the image of a 48 year old man wearing the latest Chelsea kit with Eden Hazard on the back, in 3 quarter length shorts singing 'shall we sing a song for you'. Each to their own but I don't want to be associated with that but you're lying if you don't think this makes up a lot of the support up and down the country.
Danny Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 50 minutes ago, Spike said: Locals aren't lifeblood anymore. You said it yourself, its all about TV. If all the locals disappeared, you'd still have all the TV viewership and money. Locals will always be the lifeblood, outsiders will never properly understand, even if businessmen in football would rather it be a global tour.
Spike Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Danny said: Locals will always be the lifeblood, outsiders will never properly understand, even if businessmen in football would rather it be a global tour. For smaller market clubs, yes, but not clubs in the upper echelons of marketing.
Danny Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Spike said: For smaller market clubs, yes, but not clubs in the upper echelons of marketing. For everyone. No United fan outside of Manchester will really know the hatred for Liverpool and joy in coming out on top, unless they've family or an actual connection to the club. Regardless of how obsessive people get about supporting a foreign club, that club will never actually represent them.
Azeem Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Dan said: I get all of these things but do think a lot of it is pride in your own city. Although I don't know how I'd feel if we had two clubs from this city. Are you from the south west? That depends on the cultural, social demographs of the city. Look at Istanbul, the European side of the city was mostly of rich, aristocratic liberal people so Galatasary was the club of the noble folks. The working class on the other side of the city founded their club Fenerbache, hence their intense rivalry. I dont think one side of the city felt any connection with the other at least in the old days.
Vegan Kel Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 On 05/10/2018 at 07:49, True Blue said: How bad is the Red Cafe? I know plently of United fans and most of them despise it It's probably great if you hate United fans and want a good laugh
Vegan Kel Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 15 hours ago, Smiley Culture said: They're the worst kind of fans, IMO. Worse than the "gloryhunters". There's nothing intellectual, eloquent or sensible about their opinions. They're just knee-jerking masochists who are benefiting, sometimes financially, from the club they claim to support losing games of Football. The opinions of level-headed fans who's opinions are worth listening to just don't get the views, likes or ability to go viral as some 40 year-old bloke going bat shit crazy and claiming a club who are in the Premier League and have won trophies and played in Europe in recent history are in crisis. I don't mean the fickle ones who overreact. There's a West Ham Fan TV channel and the lads on there seem well sound and well clued up. The only knobheads I've seen on their channel are some of the people they interview after games. The lads who present it do a great job I reckon
Spike Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 9 hours ago, Danny said: For everyone. No United fan outside of Manchester will really know the hatred for Liverpool and joy in coming out on top, unless they've family or an actual connection to the club. Regardless of how obsessive people get about supporting a foreign club, that club will never actually represent them. Oh, I was talking about finances.
Guest Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 13 hours ago, Danny said: Locals will always be the lifeblood, outsiders will never properly understand, even if businessmen in football would rather it be a global tour. Bit disrespectful to proper football fans from outside. You can't generalize like that. I prefer to support my local club but the English mentality doesn't exist everywhere.
Spike Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 When having a debate and not realising both sides are arguing different topics.
Spike Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 5 hours ago, Blue said: Bit disrespectful to proper football fans from outside. You can't generalize like that. I prefer to support my local club but the English mentality doesn't exist everywhere. If you extrapolated the logic, you could use it to argue foreigners or anyone outside of a group can never assimilate. If someone from the outside can never be a true ‘fan’ then by that logic an immigrant can not assimilate at all. Good news for me then, I’ll never be American! If I moved to Newcastle and lived their for the rest of my life and went to every game, and invested myself into the community, am I not a true fan? then what are you? You are neither fully Llama or Canadian...
Spike Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 Maybe I should support Chicago Fire, but they are on the Southside... more distance between me and Fire than Fulham and Arsenal, I bet.
Smiley Culture Posted October 6, 2018 Author Posted October 6, 2018 People can support who they want. If someone in a completely different continent to Europe wants to support Manchester United and will get up or stay up to silly o'clock watching every game United play, fair play to them. That takes some commitment to do that in my eyes. I certainly know that I'd struggle to handle that level of commitment with say, an MLS side if I ever decided to follow one. People can change who they support too, if they want to. It's all very stupid and tribal really, this Football stuff and really, it doesn't matter one bit. If someone, for whatever reason, wants to switch allegiances to another Football team, who cares? It's really not that important. It's not a crime as some would have you believe. The whole "you can change your wife, you can change your car but you can't change your Football team" quote that Eric Cantona is alleged to have said is bollocks. I'd argue that it would be potentially more damaging "changing"/divorcing your wife than stopping watching one Football team and starting to watch another. Probably should have put this in Unpopular Opinions but it's kind of relevant.
Spike Posted October 6, 2018 Posted October 6, 2018 51 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: People can support who they want. If someone in a completely different continent to Europe wants to support Manchester United and will get up or stay up to silly o'clock watching every game United play, fair play to them. That takes some commitment to do that in my eyes. I certainly know that I'd struggle to handle that level of commitment with say, an MLS side if I ever decided to follow one. People can change who they support too, if they want to. It's all very stupid and tribal really, this Football stuff and really, it doesn't matter one bit. If someone, for whatever reason, wants to switch allegiances to another Football team, who cares? It's really not that important. It's not a crime as some would have you believe. The whole "you can change your wife, you can change your car but you can't change your Football team" quote that Eric Cantona is alleged to have said is bollocks. I'd argue that it would be potentially more damaging "changing"/divorcing your wife than stopping watching one Football team and starting to watch another. Probably should have put this in Unpopular Opinions but it's kind of relevant. Gay marriage is more accepted.
Danny Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 13 hours ago, Blue said: Bit disrespectful to proper football fans from outside. You can't generalize like that. I prefer to support my local club but the English mentality doesn't exist everywhere. How is it disrespectful? It's just common sense. You can be from the US or Australia and have followed a team all your life but it's just not the same as actually being connected to the club, it's impossible to fully know and understand something that you are just not apart of. And you go on about English mentality, football clubs represent local areas, they were built on that mentality all around the world. Hence why the biggest rivalries are generally local rivalries, because they're built on representing local areas and people. Bar one or two clubs (Inter for example), they are pillars (or were in some cases) of local communities, they represent local people and a local area. If you have no connection to that area or it's people then you will never truly understand.
SirBalon Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 On 6 October 2018 at 08:03, Devon Von Devon said: That depends on the cultural, social demographs of the city. Look at Istanbul, the European side of the city was mostly of rich, aristocratic liberal people so Galatasary was the club of the noble folks. The working class on the other side of the city founded their club Fenerbache, hence their intense rivalry. I dont think one side of the city felt any connection with the other at least in the old days. The same as in the city of Seville in the south of Spain. The class, political and economical divide is what created, nourished and maintained the support and passion for both Sevilla FC and Real Betis Balompié.
SirBalon Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 13 hours ago, Smiley Culture said: People can support who they want. If someone in a completely different continent to Europe wants to support Manchester United and will get up or stay up to silly o'clock watching every game United play, fair play to them. That takes some commitment to do that in my eyes. I certainly know that I'd struggle to handle that level of commitment with say, an MLS side if I ever decided to follow one. People can change who they support too, if they want to. It's all very stupid and tribal really, this Football stuff and really, it doesn't matter one bit. If someone, for whatever reason, wants to switch allegiances to another Football team, who cares? It's really not that important. It's not a crime as some would have you believe. The whole "you can change your wife, you can change your car but you can't change your Football team" quote that Eric Cantona is alleged to have said is bollocks. I'd argue that it would be potentially more damaging "changing"/divorcing your wife than stopping watching one Football team and starting to watch another. Probably should have put this in Unpopular Opinions but it's kind of relevant. 6 hours ago, Danny said: How is it disrespectful? It's just common sense. You can be from the US or Australia and have followed a team all your life but it's just not the same as actually being connected to the club, it's impossible to fully know and understand something that you are just not apart of. And you go on about English mentality, football clubs represent local areas, they were built on that mentality all around the world. Hence why the biggest rivalries are generally local rivalries, because they're built on representing local areas and people. Bar one or two clubs (Inter for example), they are pillars (or were in some cases) of local communities, they represent local people and a local area. If you have no connection to that area or it's people then you will never truly understand. Two excellent posts! People can indeed support who they like and it's as valid as anything else. But there is your historical and traditional local support and that is what football clubs are/were all about. To understand that means you have to live it. We can study the World Wars, Colonisation/Invasion and Civil Wars, but only those that lived it and suffered the repercussions are the ones that really know. I know my analogy is extreme in its descriptiveness (comparison), but it's that way because one is indisputable and the former is debated when it shouldn't be.
SirBalon Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Cannabis said: People who change who they support do not understand football. End of story. You do see a lot of club changing in London with children mind you. Considering the amount of football clubs in London and depending where you live in the city you will get this phenomenon occurring until the child settles for one.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted October 7, 2018 Subscriber Posted October 7, 2018 Kids are kids, they'll choose to support whoever even if they change their minds a few times because they're kids.
Guest Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 10 hours ago, Danny said: How is it disrespectful? It's just common sense. You can be from the US or Australia and have followed a team all your life but it's just not the same as actually being connected to the club, it's impossible to fully know and understand something that you are just not apart of. And you go on about English mentality, football clubs represent local areas, they were built on that mentality all around the world. Hence why the biggest rivalries are generally local rivalries, because they're built on representing local areas and people. Bar one or two clubs (Inter for example), they are pillars (or were in some cases) of local communities, they represent local people and a local area. If you have no connection to that area or it's people then you will never truly understand. Again, you are failing to understand different football cultures. Sure, you can't celebrate with your locals about a certain club if they are from elsewhere, and even less if it's not a top team like Manchester United. However, you really don't have to support your local club. Support who you want, and you can still feel just as connected to your team. The internet is a thing. Maybe if that didn't exist, I would give you the benefit of the doubt. Especially in the USA or Australia, in which the clubs often do friendly tours and often fill up. I don't know how much sales contribute to this, but it's possible to order shirts from abroad. I live in a terrible delivery country and I still managed to get my Perth Glory stuff. I know 2 clubs here in Peru. Inter and Liverpool fans, and often they organize events. Footy matches or pub meetings. I think it's harsh to tell them that they don't feel a connection to their club when they very CLEARLY do. And don't even get me started on immigrants who moved out of said country because of work or college. You can think like an English person all you like. That's totally fine, you're English so I get it. However, it is incredibly cringeworthy to put other nations on the spot for not supporting their local clubs when not everyone thinks like the English.
Guest Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Cannabis said: People who change who they support do not understand football. End of story. I've changed the club I support I admit. Universitario I will always have a soft spot for being my family club. At one point, I had enough of their fanbase and didn't want to be apart of them so I opted for a small third tier Peruvian team called DIM, who play about 15 minutes from where I live. However, I don't really care for supporting clubs too much. I'm more of a neutral. I have favoured teams like Perth Glory, Napoli but I don't admit on being megafans of those sides. The only team I proper support is the Peruvian national team.
SirBalon Posted October 7, 2018 Posted October 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Blue said: Again, you are failing to understand different football cultures. Sure, you can't celebrate with your locals about a certain club if they are from elsewhere, and even less if it's not a top team like Manchester United. However, you really don't have to support your local club. Support who you want, and you can still feel just as connected to your team. The internet is a thing. Maybe if that didn't exist, I would give you the benefit of the doubt. Especially in the USA or Australia, in which the clubs often do friendly tours and often fill up. I don't know how much sales contribute to this, but it's possible to order shirts from abroad. I live in a terrible delivery country and I still managed to get my Perth Glory stuff. I know 2 clubs here in Peru. Inter and Liverpool fans, and often they organize events. Footy matches or pub meetings. I think it's harsh to tell them that they don't feel a connection to their club when they very CLEARLY do. And don't even get me started on immigrants who moved out of said country because of work or college. You can think like an English person all you like. That's totally fine, you're English so I get it. However, it is incredibly cringeworthy to put other nations on the spot for not supporting their local clubs when not everyone thinks like the English. It's not an English thing.
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