MUFC 1,504 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Obviously it depends on the subject and your knowledge within it. Do you lose your rag quick or are you able to keep your cool? Online and face to face will be different. The worse ones face to face are with people who never think they're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,394 Posted October 9, 2023 Administrator Share Posted October 9, 2023 Quite calm and just try to be rational and use facts where possible. I'll just try and listen to what they're saying and reason with them from my perspective, while trying to understand theirs. Half of any debate is listening to the other person, not just getting your own viewpoint across. Unless they're a bigot or a racist. Sometimes there isn't any reasoning with people and there's just no point, and better to just walk away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,504 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 52 minutes ago, Stan said: Quite calm and just try to be rational and use facts where possible. I'll just try and listen to what they're saying and reason with them from my perspective, while trying to understand theirs. Half of any debate is listening to the other person, not just getting your own viewpoint across. Unless they're a bigot or a racist. Sometimes there isn't any reasoning with people and there's just no point, and better to just walk away Years ago when I was younger I used to be rude and butt in. But over the ten years I've cut that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael 1,117 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Stan said: Quite calm and just try to be rational and use facts where possible. I'll just try and listen to what they're saying and reason with them from my perspective, while trying to understand theirs. Half of any debate is listening to the other person, not just getting your own viewpoint across. Unless they're a bigot or a racist. Sometimes there isn't any reasoning with people and there's just no point, and better to just walk away Yes, that's the way it should be, I pretty much agree. Some people are completely unreasonable, bias and bigots, yes, and on most occasions the best thing to do in these situations is to walk away, as you suggested. However, what about a bigot or someone with authority spreading hateful and destructive propaganda? Wouldn't you feel a responsibility to debate them, in order to show them up for what they really are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael 1,117 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 4 hours ago, MUFC said: Obviously it depends on the subject and your knowledge within it. Do you lose your rag quick or are you able to keep your cool? Online and face to face will be different. The worse ones face to face are with people who never think they're wrong. I'd say that I have a similar approach to how Stan engages in face to face debates. Why do you ask? Do you have a lot of experience in face to face debates? Have you ever debated someone relatively well known or relatively famous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,329 Posted October 9, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted October 9, 2023 These days, I barely ever "debate" in real life. I generally avoid topics about politics and religion amongst friends, and certainly don't talk about it with strangers. If I do want to discuss anything with anyone, I can only do that with people who are open to exchange of ideas and are intellectually stimulating, and do not waste my time with stubborn people who cling to their opinions without being able to defend them with facts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 The same as @Stan really, Sit and listen then dismantle silly arguments with facts... Don't really have many debates and like @nudge steer well clear of Politics and Religion.. never get anywhere with one of one of those. Most work places these days don't really entertain racist or bigoted behaviour during discussions and unless you are working in a garage and most of the blokes are over 50 I doubt you would hear it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,193 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 hour ago, nudge said: These days, I barely ever "debate" in real life. I generally avoid topics about politics and religion amongst friends, and certainly don't talk about it with strangers. If I do want to discuss anything with anyone, I can only do that with people who are open to exchange of ideas and are intellectually stimulating, and do not waste my time with stubborn people who cling to their opinions without being able to defend them with facts. This. I'm not going to debate anyone I don't really know that well, especially. When I do debate someone, I know them well and I know they're not an idiot so their arguments won't be idiotic and the exchange of ideas isn't pointless. 5 hours ago, Stan said: Quite calm and just try to be rational and use facts where possible. I'll just try and listen to what they're saying and reason with them from my perspective, while trying to understand theirs. Half of any debate is listening to the other person, not just getting your own viewpoint across. Unless they're a bigot or a racist. Sometimes there isn't any reasoning with people and there's just no point, and better to just walk away This is how I debate most people in real life, other than the last sentence because of above: I'm not going to debate someone who's got stupid views like that. They're not going to be open to ideas and facts, they're just going to piss me off. If I know you in real life and I'm debating you in real life, we know each other really well and it's not going to be a waste of time explaining ideas to one another. With a racist you're just going to get their warped viewpoint and they'll just ignore everything you're going to say. It's worth debating people like that online, imo, because even if they won't learn a fucking thing - there's other people that can potentially read it. And if you can use reasoning to steer people away from dangerous extremist views, it's worth engaging with a moron in debate. Basically use them as an example of how not to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey 1,192 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 If people debate in real life like they debate on here, I don't see it being a productive conversation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,394 Posted October 9, 2023 Administrator Share Posted October 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Michael said: Yes, that's the way it should be, I pretty much agree. Some people are completely unreasonable, bias and bigots, yes, and on most occasions the best thing to do in these situations is to walk away, as you suggested. However, what about a bigot or someone with authority spreading hateful and destructive propaganda? Wouldn't you feel a responsibility to debate them, in order to show them up for what they really are? Just because they have authority doesn't make them any less wrong. I'm not sure why it would be on me to have that responsibility. I'd happily show them up if I felt the inclination to, but I wouldn't say I feel 'responsible' to do it. A bigot is a bigot and like @Dr. Gonzo alluded to, they probably won't change. There's only so much I could do anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnersaurus 200 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I rarely debate anyone. I might have discussions where we will discuss different opinions but wouldn't call it a debate. One thing that really irritates me is people that won't listen to any reason. Someone I know said that home or away has no affect in football. I pointed out that statistically it does. He just went "no no" He then said " what about the invisible? They didn't loose home or away" I then pointed out that no one said it always worked like that but in general you are more likely to do better at home. He just said 'no no" again. He also said that arsenal man city having two games in hand last season made no difference. Which is just ridiculous. Two games in hand means you have a potential 6 points more. He's a strange person. I like I said I don't really debate people. However I do have a strong moral code so I can get quite argumentative when people do or say things I don't agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael 1,117 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, Stan said: Just because they have authority doesn't make them any less wrong. I'm not sure why it would be on me to have that responsibility. I'd happily show them up if I felt the inclination to, but I wouldn't say I feel 'responsible' to do it. A bigot is a bigot and like @Dr. Gonzo alluded to, they probably won't change. There's only so much I could do anyway. Of course to that first sentence. But I mean, say they were a bigoted politician or a bigoted person who had significant sway over others who was spreading divisive propaganda. Wouldn't it be right for any person with a moral compass to debate them and expose their bigotry? It wouldn't necessarily be to change their views, but rather, to show them up to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael 1,117 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 3 hours ago, nudge said: These days, I barely ever "debate" in real life. I generally avoid topics about politics and religion amongst friends, and certainly don't talk about it with strangers. If I do want to discuss anything with anyone, I can only do that with people who are open to exchange of ideas and are intellectually stimulating, and do not waste my time with stubborn people who cling to their opinions without being able to defend them with facts. I only ever have a debate, when invited out to parties with close friends. However, I do like watching the Oxford Union debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,504 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Michael said: I'd say that I have a similar approach to how Stan engages in face to face debates. Why do you ask? Do you have a lot of experience in face to face debates? Have you ever debated someone relatively well known or relatively famous? I think most of us over 40 will have plenty of experience when it comes to debating. Am just generally curious to be honest as people have a style on here which I'm sure will be different face to face. Obviously you see each other and have body language etc and can see emotions and anger. Another aspect which interests me about face to face is first hand knowledge. You get an idea of how much people have stored in their brains because online people can just quote what others have said without even understanding it or just generally copy and paste stuff. I've had debates/conversations where people just repeat what the media say and when you ask them to explain the jist of it or which aspect they agree with. They have no idea as it's difficult to do when you just repeat what you don't actually understand. The only famous person I've debated with face to is face is when looking in the mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey 1,192 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Have you ever been involved in a mass debate @MUFC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,193 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Michael said: Of course to that first sentence. But I mean, say they were a bigoted politician or a bigoted person who had significant sway over others who was spreading divisive propaganda. Wouldn't it be right for any person with a moral compass to debate them and expose their bigotry? It wouldn't necessarily be to change their views, but rather, to show them up to others. It's tough when it's figures of authority debating people who don't have any authority - to have weight, the debate would probably need to be had by another person with authority. But generally, I agree with you - if someone with a platform is spewing hateful shit, it's the moral thing to do to combat their rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,504 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, Whiskey said: Have you ever been involved in a mass debate @MUFC? Never been to midnight mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,193 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 37 minutes ago, MUFC said: Never been to midnight mass. Have you ever been to a maths debate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,504 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 Just now, Dr. Gonzo said: Have you ever been to a maths debate? Not my thing unless Carol Vorderman goes with a low cut top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ 5,363 Posted October 9, 2023 Subscriber Share Posted October 9, 2023 5 hours ago, nudge said: I generally avoid topics about politics and religion amongst friends, That's about it with me too at my age, there are too many people that like expressing an opinion and believe what they say is true no matter what. I hate listening to a show on TV, could be the news or whatnot where people are trying to speak and others around keep cutting in, it ends like listening to a bunch of fucking chickens in a hen house all cackling away, that pisses me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,504 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 Do you find debating easier with the same sex or opposite sex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,193 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, MUFC said: Do you find debating easier with the same sex or opposite sex? Depends if it's a mass debate or not... Nah in seriousness, don't think that matters much to me if it's a debate in person. Because if it's in person, it's someone I know pretty well and who I'm pretty comfortable with. So it's just me stating what I believe and why I believe in it and talking about that shite - I think I can do that quite comfortably with whatever person regardless of their sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,504 Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Depends if it's a mass debate or not... Nah in seriousness, don't think that matters much to me if it's a debate in person. Because if it's in person, it's someone I know pretty well and who I'm pretty comfortable with. So it's just me stating what I believe and why I believe in it and talking about that shite - I think I can do that quite comfortably with whatever person regardless of their sex. I seem to find it harder getting a word in when debating with women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,394 Posted October 10, 2023 Administrator Share Posted October 10, 2023 10 hours ago, MUFC said: Do you find debating easier with the same sex or opposite sex? 10 hours ago, MUFC said: I seem to find it harder getting a word in when debating with women. I've found men get angrier quicker, with women it builds up and then they get angrier than the angriest man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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