Venezuela

[Fairy In Boots]

Needs a thread really it's descending into chaos there seems every day more protesters are killed

[Honey Honey]

Fishing?

[Fairy In Boots]

2 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Fishing?

Nah not really although it's got the obvious points which allow me to be somewhat of a smug cunt. 

 I see daily now that protesters are being killed, and they've basically had a sham election to consolidate power. It's sad really it's descended into farce and it's becoming a hell hole. 

[Danny]

100 dead in a month was it? Protests before the election (maybe a day before, or just entirely before) made illegal with years worth of prison time to go with it...

[Honey Honey]

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Nah not really although it's got the obvious points which allow me to be somewhat of a smug cunt. 

 I see daily now that protesters are being killed, and they've basically had a sham election to consolidate power. It's sad really it's descended into farce and it's becoming a hell hole. 

Smug is what most of the coverage is. Particularly on social media and in the shittier right wing rags.

What is happening is a sad story, not really a time for political point scoring and a gleeful haha.

[Fairy In Boots]

31 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Smug is what most of the coverage is. Particularly on social media and in the shittier right wing rags.

What is happening is a sad story, not really a time for political point scoring and a gleeful haha.

I think you can't help but be smug when those who often champion theses kind of systems talk in such a condescending hollier than thou manner and it turns to shit. 

I appreciate you can't just be smug though when it's obviously horrible for the people caught up in it. I'd guess It's horrific to be stuck there now,  I can imagine some desperate situations on the streets out there. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Fairy In Boots

[Dr. Gonzo]

It's horrific how brutal a dictatorship can be when the West doesn't give a shit. No idea why America doesn't care, Venezuela is the US's biggest oil provider. If US petrol prices go up from this maybe then they'll care.

[Fairy In Boots]

Apparently Ken Livingstone has backed the Murdero Government in the times, he also said that Chavez didn't execute the elites 

Quote

“Hugo Chávez did not execute the establishment elite, he allowed them to continue so they’re still there”, he told The Times. “I think there’s a lot of rumours they’ve been blocking the important food and medicines and things like that because they control a lot of the companies.

He added: “America has got a long record of undermining any left-wing government as well. So I suspect it’s not all just down to the problems of the [Venezuelan] government.”

Asked whether he continued to support Mr Maduro, he replied: “Oh God, yes.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ken-livingstone-us-meddling-venezuela-crisis-president-nicolas-maduro-democracy-sanctions-a7870781.html

As much as he and many in the current Labour party are fruitloops in general, surely this is the onset of dementia?

[Guest]

I'm glad we have a thread on this as its a serious issue that's hugely ignored in the USA and the UK which it shouldn't. 

I've been in Venezuela and I wouldn't dare go back these days. Its become a huge mess compared to when I last went.

[Guest]

Just now, Cannabis said:

With all due respect what's it got to do with the US and the UK? We've got our own problems.

You make a fair point as most of the problems worldwide are ones that the USA and UK are involved in, but I still think that the issue in Venezuela is too ignored.

[Dr. Gonzo]

18 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

With all due respect what's it got to do with the US and the UK? We've got our own problems.

Quite frankly, it's got a shitload to do with the US. Venezuela sells a significant amount of oil to the US and as we know, oil is something the US has been willing to go to war for. They were willing to deal with a dictator they hated, and who hated them, in Chavez because of cheap oil. Instability in one of their oil producers is not a good thing for America.

Although perhaps the US gives less of a shit now because it's increased it's own oil production significantly.

But aside from the callous reasons of oil and economic imperialism, I do think that Venezuela should be getting a lot more news coverage. It's fucking shocking what's going on there right now. Starvation, infighting between the military and police (as in, some are very much fighting for the starving public and others are fighting for Maduro's goal of making his dictatorship stronger), and a whole lot of innocent people dying. I think a disinterested rest of the world will allow for Maduro or another shitbag, to solidify a truly repulsive regime and more suffering for general innocent people.

[Fairy In Boots]

We all blame the states and they're never blameless but OPEC basically started fucking one another over anyway ignoring quotas because they had spent the cash. Venezuela and its current problems are much more about running a financially viable welfare/social program off the back off an economy entirely dependent on one resource which has fluctuated widely. 

Long story short they spent to much off the back of a gold rush from spiking oil prices and they didn't spend it in the correct manner. Now they're doubling down and blaming the states and the bourgeoisie types rather than recognise they had a chance for a better future but they fucking blew it. To maintain control they've started killing and sham elections so we basically have a dictatorship 

[Fairy In Boots]

howling  especially when he gets onto appropriation for the state, reminds me of Corbyn post Grenfell

[Panflute]

So is it that time of the generation again where Latin American countries make their switch from socialist rogue states to capitalist hellholes controlled by the US and fruit corporations?

Time is not linear, it's cyclical.

[The Artful Dodger]

Venezuela, like most of Norther South America is a victim of the Cold War, countries squeezed between communist dictatorship and rampant capitalist exploitation. No winners here.

[Honey Honey]

How many accounts on this site does Ken Livingstone have?

 

[Kowabunga]

Venezuela is most distinctly a violent country.

What I don't really understand is the massive fuck up in managing the venezuelan economy by Maduro government. Venezuela may very well remain a viable country exporter of primary goods without being too oil-dependant (gold, coltan, et. al), primarily because they don't even have a particularly competitive oil to begin with. Maybe some expert can drop some light onto this.

And lol at some so-called defenders of parliamentary democracy in here (Spain) vowing for the corporative chamber formed by Maduro. How we should called it in order to look acceptable... socioethnic guildism [sic]?

Anyways, the lens through which we get the news about Venezuela in here are unbearable. I am sick of always reading here the news about Venezuela in terms of Podemos demonization.

[El Profesor]

There was a military uprising against Maduro yesterday in Valencia, and today I´ve just read reports of more conflicts. A civil war seems to be starting in Venezuela. 

[Berserker]

On 2/8/2017 at 7:44 AM, Panflute said:

So is it that time of the generation again where Latin American countries make their switch from socialist rogue states to capitalist hellholes controlled by the US and fruit corporations?

Time is not linear, it's cyclical.

What do you mean by fruit corporations?

10 hours ago, El_Loco said:

There was a military uprising against Maduro yesterday in Valencia, and today I´ve just read reports of more conflicts. A civil war seems to be starting in Venezuela. 

Yes, but there were only about 20. They'll need at least hundreds of thousands to really make something happen. Also whether Maduro is overthrown or not Venezuela will still be massively fucked for a long time, they have no monetary reserves, they owe lots of money ($60.000 M  to the Chinese for example), their productive machinery is also fucked and working to about 30% of total capacity. Not to mention they were always an importing country which doesn't produce it's own goods like both of us for example, and 95% of their exports are Oil. So in resume they're royally fucked unless oil prices miraculously jump back to 2008 levels or so.

[Panflute]

8 hours ago, Berserker said:

What do you mean by fruit corporations?

Ever wonder where the term 'banana republic' comes from?

[Berserker]

30 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Ever wonder where the term 'banana republic' comes from?

Oh, yes.

[Spike]

Nothing like the mass suffering of others to run a political agenda into the ground. Got morons like TYT trying to dance around the subject while they wank their socialist agenda in the ground, while people on the other side of the river are gleefully wanking over how another socialist country has fucked it's citizens into poverty, starvation, and death.

[Guest]

The situation in Venezuela just keeps on getting worse. There are loads of Venezuelans now here in Lima. Seen some in my college. Its ironic too, because we were in a similar situation in the 1970's so it was us that went to Venezuela, not vice versa.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Guest

[El Profesor]

Quote

Trump Pressed Aides on Venezuela Invasion, U.S. Official Says

As a meeting last August in the Oval Office to discuss sanctions on Venezuela was concluding, President Donald Trump turned to his top aides and asked an unsettling question: With a fast unraveling Venezuela threatening regional security, why can't the U.S. just simply invade the troubled country?

More on: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-04/us-official-trump-pressed-aides-about-venezuela-invasion

 

In theory, the population would support the invasion and the Maduro regime would be easily toppled. At this point, he´s highly unpopular. But wars are always unpredictable and all scenarios must be considered.

After all the United States proved they´re pretty bad at the nation building business in Iraq and Lybia, and creating power vacumn is always dangerous. Different sections of venezuelan could compete to gain power and a civil war could eclode simultaneously. There is too the possible scenario of venezuelan and cuban militias retreating to the Amazon forest and the conflict could drag on for years, causing instability in the whole region.  

There aren´t good solutions when it comes to Venezuela, but I sure hope a war is avoided.

Colombia would definitely support an invasion, meanwhile Brazil is a mistery. Trump pressed Temer´s government to give a position, but the brazilian government has been evasive so far. Pence visited Brazil last week and Venezuela was certainly a topic of conversation. Like I´ve discussed with @Kowabunga, if Bolsonaro is elected on October, it makes a venezuelan conflict more probable. He will push hard for a alliance with the United State. 

[Kowabunga]

4 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

More on: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-04/us-official-trump-pressed-aides-about-venezuela-invasion

 

In theory, the population would support the invasion and the Maduro regime would be easily toppled. At this point, he´s highly unpopular. But wars are always unpredictable and all scenarios must be considered.

After all the United States proved they´re pretty bad at the nation building business in Iraq and Lybia, and creating power vacumn is always dangerous. Different sections of venezuelan could compete to gain power and a civil war could eclode simultaneously. There is too the possible scenario of venezuelan and cuban militias retreating to the Amazon forest and the conflict could drag on for years, causing instability in the whole region.  

There aren´t good solutions when it comes to Venezuela, but I sure hope a war is avoided.

Colombia would definitely support an invasion, meanwhile Brazil is a mistery. Trump pressed Temer´s government to give a position, but the brazilian government has been evasive so far. Pence visited Brazil last week and Venezuela was certainly a topic of conversation. Like I´ve discussed with @Kowabunga, if Bolsonaro is elected on October, it makes a venezuelan conflict more probable. He will push hard for a alliance with the United State. 

A war and a US post-colonial puppet regime would be a bad scenario for South America. I heard the Venezuelan army is rather well paid, so, if it's true, an overthrow wouldn't be clean at all, but the contrary, rather bloody, and I don't envision Colombia really wanting a long conflict at their vicinity.

In a better timeline Brazil could be already leading the continent towards bigger things. I've wondered about what role in Foreign Affairs a radical right wing presidency in Brazil could took. Rather bleak and depressing prospect, I think.