House Prices

[Danny]

Just been having a cheeky gander on the tinterwebs and if you were to buy a shit 2 bed house in Liverpool somewhere you're likely to get robbed or stabbed itd cost you about TEN GRAND. Just ten thousand British pounds. If you were to buy a similar property in London, somewhere you're like to get robbed, stabbed and have acid thrown over you it will cost you about £250k, minimum. In fact an expensive house in Liverpool probably still couldn't buy you a house on a council estate in London.

Im sure none of the above comes as a surprise to anyone but for comparison it's depressing.

Most houses in London start off at around the £350k-£400k mark...start off 😩 That's to live in Southall too 😂

I will most likely move north when I'm done with my travels.

[Stan]

This is the one thing me and the missus can't agree on right now. What we do in the couple of years after we get married. She wants to eventually live closer to London and she's talking about deposits of £200k for a house xD. So unrealistic and is never gonna happen on our salaries.

Whereas where I am in Bedford, could save a quarter of that and get a decent sized 3-bed house. 

London prices are astronomical. Unless you're earning close to £90k-100k (individually or household)  there's no way you'd realistically be able to afford to live there and still enjoy some kind of life while doing so. 

[Danny]

33 minutes ago, Stan said:

This is the one thing me and the missus can't agree on right now. What we do in the couple of years after we get married. She wants to eventually live closer to London and she's talking about deposits of £200k for a house xD. So unrealistic and is never gonna happen on our salaries.

Whereas where I am in Bedford, could save a quarter of that and get a decent sized 3-bed house. 

London prices are astronomical. Unless you're earning close to £90k-100k (individually or household)  there's no way you'd realistically be able to afford to live there and still enjoy some kind of life while doing so. 

Yeah it's ridiculous, you'd have to live in the very outer reaches of London to get something near affordable and at that point what's the point of living that far away from London for a London lifestyle?

My thought process and my missus' is that if we can't live in London we'll move to another city, most likely up north, rather than live too far out or in a suburban/rural town with little happening.

[Smiley Culture]

It's all relative though. As much as I have looked at house prices up North as well, you need to take into account that your wages will more than likely be lower as a result of moving away from the South East and the attractive house prices are a little bit less attractive. 

One of my best mates moved to Derbyshire last year and he's got a three-bed cottage with a big garden for £225,000. That would only buy you a flat in the area around where I live, maybe a two bed flat if you're lucky but it would be in a poor area. 

One of my biggest problems at present is working in London. If I was to ever have enough money to buy somewhere on the Underground map, I'd need a huge deposit, one which would take years to save. If I moved further out from where I am, where prices are a little cheaper, I'd then be needing to pay double or even triple my fare into London on the overground trains. 

[Inverted]

I'm not being facetious, but as somebody from up North this is kinda removed from me culturally:  what is the attraction of moving to London?

Obviously it's by far the biggest city in the UK, and so has the biggest range of lifestyle opportunities etc, but surely the kind of income you'd need to be on to actually experience that selection is well beyond most peoples' reach. For much less you can live a fairly luxurious life in one of the cities on the next tier down like Liverpool, Manchester or Glasgow.

Is there something else? Of course you make more money, but again, unless you go up to some of the top income percentiles you're not going to experience a true increase in living standards.

[Stan]

2 hours ago, Danny said:

Yeah it's ridiculous, you'd have to live in the very outer reaches of London to get something near affordable and at that point what's the point of living that far away from London for a London lifestyle?

My thought process and my missus' is that if we can't live in London we'll move to another city, most likely up north, rather than live too far out or in a suburban/rural town with little happening.

Yeah I've tried putting that thought process in to my missus' head about moving or working in another city (Milton Keynes for example) but she's adamant to stay in London to work. She'll only move out temporarily to live with me for a max of 2 years before she says we have to move in to another property closer to London. I  just don't have the salary to move closer to London and I'm not in a position right now to give up my whole life to move with her. 

[Danny]

14 minutes ago, Stan said:

Yeah I've tried putting that thought process in to my missus' head about moving or working in another city (Milton Keynes for example) but she's adamant to stay in London to work. She'll only move out temporarily to live with me for a max of 2 years before she says we have to move in to anotjee property closer to London. I  just don't have the salary to move closer to London and I'm not in a position right now to give up my whole life to move with her. 

That's fair enough for you, no point living to live in debt. Does she earn enough to live in London? Can imagine it's a bitch of an argument.

[Honey Honey]

Only 1 high paid person (£50-120k) I've worked with home owned inside London. Everyone else lived outside. So no one under that salary is going to have a chance.

It's the rent that is the problem though. If rent wasn't so high then you could live in a part of London good enough to raise kids and put extra money into a private pension or investment fund instead of home ownership. But with rent so high staying in London long term doesn't pay off.

 

[Stan]

28 minutes ago, Danny said:

That's fair enough for you, no point living to live in debt. Does she earn enough to live in London? Can imagine it's a bitch of an argument.

Not really but she is more ambitious than me and (as has been touched on earlier) does want to earn much more than what she's on now. Which is fair play and no one is going to criticise her for that, but it will take a while for 1) her to get to that level of salary and 2) save enough for a deposit to live in a nice house in London. When I say nice, I don't mean a plush mansion, just somewhere adequate to live  .

Even if I was on her salary, we'd be struggling to save enough for a deposit for a London-priced house. Even more of a struggle to do that within 2 years. She knows how unrealistic I think this is so it's always a sticking point when it comes to discussing it. 

We've discussed possibly going to St Albans eventually instead of anywhere further south than that, but even living there is stupidly expensive.

I'm the kind of person who wants to enjoy living somewhere whilst trying to save for my own future as well as future of any kids we have. I don't want to live a life where I'm struggling to make ends meet and can't enjoy the finer things in life when possible. She's the kind of girl who wants to spend now, spend big and also want the nicer things in life. Trying to reign her in is a mission in itself  

[Danny]

27 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Only 1 high paid person (£50-120k) I've worked with home owned inside London. Everyone else lived outside. So no one under that salary is going to have a chance.

It's the rent that is the problem though. If rent wasn't so high then you could live in a part of London good enough to raise kids and put extra money into a private pension or investment fund instead of home ownership. But with rent so high staying in London long term doesn't pay off.

 

Know people spending a grand a month on rent...I once stayed in a flat overnight that was a grand a month and it was nearly identical to the flat I was living in in Oxfordshire for half the price.

1 hour ago, Smiley Culture said:

It's all relative though. As much as I have looked at house prices up North as well, you need to take into account that your wages will more than likely be lower as a result of moving away from the South East and the attractive house prices are a little bit less attractive. 

One of my best mates moved to Derbyshire last year and he's got a three-bed cottage with a big garden for £225,000. That would only buy you a flat in the area around where I live, maybe a two bed flat if you're lucky but it would be in a poor area. 

One of my biggest problems at present is working in London. If I was to ever have enough money to buy somewhere on the Underground map, I'd need a huge deposit, one which would take years to save. If I moved further out from where I am, where prices are a little cheaper, I'd then be needing to pay double or even triple my fare into London on the overground trains. 

I wouldn't say it's relative, around £200k for example can get you a new build in Oxfordshire...wouldn't get a council house for that price in London. Even if you go up north, I was looking into salary differences between London and the North for social workers and in London they're paid between £30k-£39k on average. Up north they're paid £25k-£30k on average, which maybe £5k-£10k less depending on how much you're earning but you can get a house up north in a nice area for £200k-£300k...you're looking at spending £450k-£600k+ for run of the mill semi-detached houses in London. I'd rather lose the £5k-£10k extra if it means my house is going to be £200k-£300k more affordable elsewhere.

 

[Harry]

House prices in Australia are pretty bad too. Sydney worst. Melbourne pretty bad. 

We're looking to buy a house at the moment and will need to shell out about $1.6M Australian for what we want. That should get us a decent 4 bedroom 2 bathroom house on 600m2 of land.

E.G https://www.domain.com.au/2013668877

That's I'm a decent suburb within a 10 minute walk of a train station that is itself about a 35 minute express train ride into the centre of Melbourne. 

Be interested to know how that compares...

 

[Danny]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

Not really but she is more ambitious than me and (as has been touched on earlier) does want to earn much more than what she's on now. Which is fair play and no one is going to criticise her for that, but it will take a while for 1) her to get to that level of salary and 2) save enough for a deposit to live in a nice house in London. When I say nice, I don't mean a plush mansion, just somewhere adequate to live  .

Even if I was on her salary, we'd be struggling to save enough for a deposit for a London-priced house. Even more of a struggle to do that within 2 years. She knows how unrealistic I think this is so it's always a sticking point when it comes to discussing it. 

We've discussed possibly going to St Albans eventually instead of anywhere further south than that, but even living there is stupidly expensive.

I'm the kind of person who wants to enjoy living somewhere whilst trying to save for my own future as well as future of any kids we have. I don't want to live a life where I'm struggling to make ends meet and can't enjoy the finer things in life when possible. She's the kind of girl who wants to spend now, spend big and also want the nicer things in life. Trying to reign her in is a mission in itself  

That must be a struggle. I'd love to earn enough to live in London, personally I'd hate to live in a feeder town to London like St. Albans, Slough (I'd just hate to live in Slough in general)...nothing against your choice in wanting to go to St. Albans, I've spent two years living in a small/mediumish sized market town/warehouse galore town as well as growing up in the London suburbs, so through choice I'd rather live in a city elsewhere for now than move to towns outside of London.

With that said I get why you'd want to, house prices are lower etc. And I get your need for stability as well, me and you are probably currently on two very different wave lengths. Financially I've as much stability as Arsenal's defence after having to travel to and back from the UK the last few months, as well as putting all my dollar into my travels.

[Carnivore Chris]

On the site I've been working on for the whole of this year(and most of last year, before they laid me off last week due to the site coming to a close), the houses started at about 200 grand and it's got to be said, that they aren't worth it one bit. New builds are absolutely crap in this country and both architecture and building work are at the lowest they've ever been. The houses are characterless and dull(a big difference from when you look into the distance and see the city's local castle, that's architecture!). the bricks they use are cheap crap, they rush all the tradesman to get things done, meaning that a lot of work is very rough and customers often have many problems once they move in.

I wouldn't even buy a new build if I could afford it, they are largely shite.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Inverted said:

I'm not being facetious, but as somebody from up North this is kinda removed from me culturally:  what is the attraction of moving to London?

Obviously it's by far the biggest city in the UK, and so has the biggest range of lifestyle opportunities etc, but surely the kind of income you'd need to be on to actually experience that selection is well beyond most peoples' reach. For much less you can live a fairly luxurious life in one of the cities on the next tier down like Liverpool, Manchester or Glasgow.

Is there something else? Of course you make more money, but again, unless you go up to some of the top income percentiles you're not going to experience a true increase in living standards.

Taking money out of the occasion, you'd never move up north if you could live in London. Certainly not from a southerners perspective, or at least anyone living in London/near London.

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

House prices in Australia are pretty bad too. Sydney worst. Melbourne pretty bad. 

We're looking to buy a house at the moment and will need to shell out about $1.6M Australian. That should get us a decent 4 bedroom 2 bathroom house on 600m2 of land. 

E.G https://www.domain.com.au/2013668877

That's within a 10 minute walk of a train station that is itself about a 35 minute express train ride into the centre of Melbourne. 

Be interested to know how that compares...

 

Sydney's shocking at the moment, there's some flats in Bondi that have been sold for millions just for the sea view (of course it's in Bondi). I was reading though that the supply has outdone the demand and for the first time in yonks prices have stopped rising.

Can't believe people work in Sydney and drive two hours home to the Central Coast, I could never do that.

[Danny]

5 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

On the site I've been working on for the whole of this year(and most of last year, before they laid me off last week due to the site coming to a close), the houses started at about 200 grand and it's got to be said, that they aren't worth it one bit. New builds are absolutely crap in this country and both architecture and building work are at the lowest they've ever been. The houses are characterless and dull(a big difference from when you look into the distance and see the city's local castle, that's architecture!). the bricks they use are cheap crap, they rush all the tradesman to get things done, meaning that a lot of work is very rough and customers often have many problems once they move in.

I wouldn't even buy a new build if I could afford it, they are largely shite.

That's why the government grants are all about new builds mate, I'd much rather buy a terraced style house personally. You know they last and they generally look better as well as opposed to the semi-detached houses all over the country. Hate the look of them.

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, Danny said:

That must be a struggle. I'd love to earn enough to live in London, personally I'd hate to live in a feeder town to London like St. Albans, Slough (I'd just hate to live in Slough in general)...nothing against your choice in wanting to go to St. Albans, I've spent two years living in a small/mediumish sized market town/warehouse galore town as well as growing up in the London suburbs, so through choice I'd rather live in a city elsewhere for now than move to towns outside of London.

With that said I get why you'd want to, house prices are lower etc. And I get your need for stability as well, me and you are probably currently on two very different wave lengths. Financially I've as much stability as Arsenal's defence after having to travel to and back from the UK the last few months, as well as putting all my dollar into my travels.

Yeah likewise, I'd love to earn enough to live in London too but I just don't see it happening. I really don't think I'd enjoy it either, to be honest. Time and time again my missus moans about the tube journey, how late she gets in from work, how she hates her job etc. I ask her why she's still there and it's simply because of £££. I've spent my whole life living in a small town so it's difficult for me to imagine living elsewhere - not that I'm scared of it. I just don't think I'll enjoy my life elsewhere. 

I don't blame you for travelling the world mate. Great that you've had the opportunity and funds to do so!

4 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

On the site I've been working on for the whole of this year(and most of last year, before they laid me off last week due to the site coming to a close), the houses started at about 200 grand and it's got to be said, that they aren't worth it one bit. New builds are absolutely crap in this country and both architecture and building work are at the lowest they've ever been. The houses are characterless and dull(a big difference from when you look into the distance and see the city's local castle, that's architecture!). the bricks they use are cheap crap, they rush all the tradesman to get things done, meaning that a lot of work is very rough and customers often have many problems once they move in.

I wouldn't even buy a new build if I could afford it, they are largely shite.

Interesting! I work in the Housing sector so can see what you're saying! I didn't know it was as bad as you say though - it's all build, build, build in the company I'm in. Most of the area I work in is all social housing, there's no new-builds at all so I don't get to see what that 'journey' from foundation to brand new house is on a regular basis. All our new-builds I've seen look amazing though . Maybe that's just because I see derelict and worn down houses everyday!

[Smiley Culture]

31 minutes ago, Danny said:

Know people spending a grand a month on rent...I once stayed in a flat overnight that was a grand a month and it was nearly identical to the flat I was living in in Oxfordshire for half the price.

I wouldn't say it's relative, around £200k for example can get you a new build in Oxfordshire...wouldn't get a council house for that price in London. Even if you go up north, I was looking into salary differences between London and the North for social workers and in London they're paid between £30k-£39k on average. Up north they're paid £25k-£30k on average, which maybe £5k-£10k less depending on how much you're earning but you can get a house up north in a nice area for £200k-£300k...you're looking at spending £450k-£600k+ for run of the mill semi-detached houses in London. I'd rather lose the £5k-£10k extra if it means my house is going to be £200k-£300k more affordable elsewhere.

 

I think people do seem to forget that they wouldn't earn what they do in or around London and they have to be prepared for that drop alongside the paying of a mortgage and bills somewhere else in the country and that was the point I was trying to make. It's something I see a lot of on social media, house price comparisons between London and somewhere else. 

 

[Toinho]

24 minutes ago, Harry said:

House prices in Australia are pretty bad too. Sydney worst. Melbourne pretty bad. 

We're looking to buy a house at the moment and will need to shell out about $1.6M Australian. That should get us a decent 4 bedroom 2 bathroom house on 600m2 of land. 

E.G https://www.domain.com.au/2013668877

That's within a 10 minute walk of a train station that is itself about a 35 minute express train ride into the centre of Melbourne. 

Be interested to know how that compares...

 

That's a pretty nice place though! Super expensive in Perth too. 

[Spike]

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

House prices in Australia are pretty bad too. Sydney worst. Melbourne pretty bad. 

We're looking to buy a house at the moment and will need to shell out about $1.6M Australian. That should get us a decent 4 bedroom 2 bathroom house on 600m2 of land. 

E.G https://www.domain.com.au/2013668877

That's within a 10 minute walk of a train station that is itself about a 35 minute express train ride into the centre of Melbourne. 

Be interested to know how that compares...

 

That is why we won't be moving back to Australia.For something comparable you're looking at around half of that

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/317-E-Lake-St-Barrington-IL-60010/3242194_zpid/

[Honey Honey]

The general rule is if you're paying more than 30%-35% of your salary on housing (wherever you are in the world) you're paying too much. I've never been able to get rent in London down to that and simultaneously live in a good area with good commuting. 

If you can't get your rent down low enough to be able to better fund a private pension then there is no economic benefit to living in London over living elsewhere in the country on a lower salary where you can get a mortgage. With rent already a higher proportion of income any pension funding eats into the additional disposable income you might be making by earning a London salary.

One of the plus sides of London costs is transport is cheaper than if you owned a car that wasn't a banger in a city where you have to drive to work. 

 

[Harry]

1 minute ago, Anton said:

That's a pretty nice place though! Super expensive in Perth too. 

Yeah for sure. Not easy to afford a full size house in a suburb like Mitcham from our generation. I'd say we are upper middle class. Both full time jobs on good salaries. Ultimately there is a generation gap though. Houses have outstripped wage growth massively for 15 or more years and anyone who got on before or during that wave is in a pretty great place now financially. Coming in as a first home buyer you are hugely disadvantaged to compete with established buyers. 

[Toinho]

38 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yeah for sure. Not easy to afford a full size house in a suburb like Mitcham from our generation. I'd say we are upper middle class. Both full time jobs on good salaries. Ultimately there is a generation gap though. Houses have outstripped wage growth massively for 15 or more years and anyone who got on before or during that wave is in a pretty great place now financially. Coming in as a first home buyer you are hugely disadvantaged to compete with established buyers. 

Yeah probably similar nation wide.

I am at a crossroad where I either continue saving and by myself a small place next year (don't need anything big... know so many single mates who own 4 by 2's, what is it with us wanting big houses in big land? Fucking waste.) or travelling most of next year...(pending teaching registration bollocks).

[Dave]

London prices are astronomical but with the economic uncertainty it's unlikely they will rise on the steep curve that it once was. To put it in perspective my property which is a one bedroom flat in Colliers Wood was purchased for £180,000 in January 2015. A same build flat in the same area went for £230,000 in January 2016. Then a Brexit Vote and a Hung Parliament later my flat is being sold in August 2017 for £240,000. That's taking in to consideration the area has rejuvenated somewhat and the northern line has gone 24/7. So whatever you need for a deposit now is likely to be the maximum you'd need for the next couple of years from my situation.

But speaking as someone who has lived in areas such as Wimbledon, Kingston, Mitcham, Battersea and Tooting I cannot for the life of me imagine why somebody in a steady relationship thinking about the next chapter of their life consider moving in to Central London or even the outskirts of London. It's great when you're in your early twenties. When you've graduated from university and after whoring your CV out everywhere you've managed to get that job that gives you that excuse to look suave, wear flash clothes, show your new life on instagram and create a great snapchat story all whilst still having the time to see your friends on your lunch breaks and still get to drink as much you want on Friday and Saturday evenings in sophisticated establishments with like minded people you feel great. You're career orientated, you don't have any other commitments or responsibilities other than improving yourself and you feel like you've made it.

Then when you hit your mid to late twenties and you're now in a relationship it changes. You begin to recognize It's busy all the time, crime is absolutely rife, traffic is a nightmare, most people are rude, and you pay almost six quid now in some places for a pint.

You begin to recognize that you can't bring a family up round here. Not in the sized accommodation you can afford anyway, and you recognize that if you did you'd become paranoid about all the crime that occurs within a mile radius from your flat, and your future children settling in with the wrong crowd. Then you'll meet THAT couple from university that stayed by together, bought a house outside of London with 4+ bedrooms, a garage, a massive garden, all recently renevated on there money all whilst raising a family and being ridiculously happy. Where they live it's quiet, the air smells fresh, Ambulances go past and they're not on blue lights, Strangers wave and talk to each other, Neighbors are on first name terms, and drinks are more fairly priced. All of this for what? Twenty minutes extra commute in to work every day? Absolute fucking no brainer.

So yeah Stan, I'd choose St Albans

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Aaroncpfc said:

London prices are astronomical but with the economic uncertainty it's unlikely they will rise on the steep curve that it once was. To put it in perspective my property which is a one bedroom flat in Colliers Wood was purchased for £180,000 in January 2015. A same build flat in the same area went for £230,000 in January 2016. Then a Brexit Vote and a Hung Parliament later my flat is being sold in August 2017 for £240,000. That's taking in to consideration the area has rejuvenated somewhat and the northern line has gone 24/7. So whatever you need for a deposit now is likely to be the maximum you'd need for the next couple of years from my situation.

But speaking as someone who has lived in areas such as Wimbledon, Kingston, Mitcham, Battersea and Tooting I cannot for the life of me imagine why somebody in a steady relationship thinking about the next chapter of their life consider moving in to Central London or even the outskirts of London. It's great when you're in your early twenties. When you've graduated from university and after whoring your CV out everywhere you've managed to get that job that gives you that excuse to look suave, wear flash clothes, show your new life on instagram and create a great snapchat story all whilst still having the time to see your friends on your lunch breaks and still get to drink as much you want on Friday and Saturday evenings in sophisticated establishments with like minded people you feel great. You're career orientated, you don't have any other commitments or responsibilities other than improving yourself and you feel like you've made it.

Then when you hit your mid to late twenties and you're now in a relationship it changes. You begin to recognize It's busy all the time, crime is absolutely rife, traffic is a nightmare, most people are rude, and you pay almost six quid now in some places for a pint.

You begin to recognize that you can't bring a family up round here. Not in the sized accommodation you can afford anyway, and you recognize that if you did you'd become paranoid about all the crime that occurs within a mile radius from your flat, and your future children settling in with the wrong crowd. Then you'll meet THAT couple from university that stayed by together, bought a house outside of London with 4+ bedrooms, a garage, a massive garden, all recently renevated on there money all whilst raising a family and being ridiculously happy. Where they live it's quiet, the air smells fresh, Ambulances go past and they're not on blue lights, Strangers wave and talk to each other, Neighbors are on first name terms, and drinks are more fairly priced. All of this for what? Twenty minutes extra commute in to work every day? Absolute fucking no brainer.

So yeah Stan, I'd choose St Albans

i'll send you my missus' number. Sometimes the same message from someone else makes it hit home  

[Danny]

Just now, Stan said:

Yeah likewise, I'd love to earn enough to live in London too but I just don't see it happening. I really don't think I'd enjoy it either, to be honest. Time and time again my missus moans about the tube journey, how late she gets in from work, how she hates her job etc. I ask her why she's still there and it's simply because of £££. I've spent my whole life living in a small town so it's difficult for me to imagine living elsewhere - not that I'm scared of it. I just don't think I'll enjoy my life elsewhere. 

I don't blame you for travelling the world mate. Great that you've had the opportunity and funds to do so!

I get where you're coming from, you should definitely give the city living a go even if it's temporary at first. It's good to challenge yourself. The Tube is a nightmare, I've mastered Sydney's trains so they don't bother me as much, but then I grew up getting busses in London and they're something else.

Ha don't have the finds mate, just saving and paying as I go.