Inverted Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Just now, Spike said: And just because he played deep doesn't mean he was a defensive mid or a holding mid. Playing deep is literally the definition of a holding mid.
Cicero Posted March 17, 2017 Author Posted March 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Spike said: I thought he was more of a dynamic B2B type? Played as a sweeper as well. Had all the attributes to play anywhere in midfield, but his defensive abilities stood out the most. 1 minute ago, SirBalon said: If someone wants to go Italian, then Gigi Riva is the way to go. From what I've ever learned he was the greatest ever in that position. Obviously I didn't live that era but I also didn't live the Lev Yashin era and yet know he was the greatest keeper of all time. He was a striker
Spike Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Just now, Inverted said: Playing deep is literally the definition of a holding mid. There is no definition. It's a made up phrase.
SirBalon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Pirlo will forever be for me a playmaker! One without legs which tells you why he played slightly deeper (recovery).
SirBalon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cicero said: Played as a sweeper as well. Had all the attributes to play anywhere in midfield, but his defensive abilities stood out the most. He was a striker Shit! I was thinking of Gianni Rivera!
Inverted Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Just now, Spike said: There is no definition. It's a made up phrase. A holding player stays deeper than the two CMs in front of him. To me that means B2B players go into one of the CM spots and less mobile playmakers like Pirlo go into the DM spot. A formation isn't a scale of more defensive to less defensive players going higher up the pitch, it merely illustrates where each player is. Where you are doesn't determine what you do.
Spike Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 In Italian he is a 'regista'. Not a holding mid, not a defensive mid, a completely new position that the Italians saw fit to give a name. Just like Alonso, Gundogan, Xavi, Modric, and many more.
Spike Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Just now, Inverted said: A holding player stays deeper than the two CMs in front of him. To me that means B2B players go into one of the CM spots and less mobile playmakers like Pirlo go into the DM spot. A formation isn't a scale of more defensive to less defensive players going higher up the pitch, it merely illustrates where each player is. Where you are doesn't determine what you do. It literally says 'DM'. Besides where are you getting this definition? Did you make it up just then or is in some footballing dictionary? Where a player is on the 'lineup' means nothing because it's just a slot for player's name on a teamsheet. Pirlo WASN'T a defensive midfielder, never has been a defensive midfielder. Just because his name appears under what is typically a DM position doesn't mean he should be voted there. He should be voted into the CM slot. Football is more fluid than a formation. ST LW---------------------RW CM----CM DM Maldini------Puyol-----Nesta-----Lahm Buffon
Inverted Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Spike said: In Italian he is a 'regista'. Not a holding mid, not a defensive mid, a completely new position that the Italians saw fit to give a name. Just like Alonso, Gundogan, Xavi, Modric, and many more. Yeah I know. What I'm saying is if I have one CM spot left and the DM spot left, and I've got Pirlo to place, along with Viera for example: Pirlo goes in the DM spot and the Viera goes into the CM spot. Because Viera is going to be getting up the pitch more and Pirlo is just going to drift around in deep positions. That better shows where they are going actually to be on the pitch. Edit: if we're agreeing that there is a set role for each player, then fine I'll say Pirlo isn't a candidate for the DM spot. I was just looking at the shape in terms of actual placement of the players. If you're reading more meaning into it then fine I accept that's an equally valid way of approaching it. Btw I didn't even pick Pirlo, for the record.
Spike Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Inverted said: Yeah I know. What I'm saying is if I have one CM spot left and the DM spot left, and I've got Pirlo to place, along with Viera for example: Pirlo goes in the DM spot and the Viera goes into the CM spot. Because Viera is going to be getting up the pitch more and Pirlo is just going to drift around in deep positions. That better shows where they are going actually to be on the pitch. I'd do the opposite because we aren't voting for an actual team but players that were best in their positions. We are talking about a literal DM position, which Pirlo wasn't.
Inverted Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Spike said: I'd do the opposite because we aren't voting for an actual team but players that were best in their positions. We are talking about a literal DM position, which Pirlo wasn't. Fair enough I suppose for the purposes of a vote like this it's better to accept some stylistic limits on who can go where. I was just thinking of where I've seen Pirlo play and transferring that onto the formation, but that would probs over-complicate the process for the midfield positions. Thank god I ended up picking Busquets or shit would have got out of hand
Spike Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Inverted said: Fair enough I suppose for the purposes of a vote like this it's better to accept some stylistic limits on who can go where. I was just thinking of where I've seen Pirlo play and transferring that onto the formation, but that would probs over-complicate the process for the midfield positions. Thank god I ended up picking Busquets or shit would have got out of hand Yeah, it's up to interpretations I guess. I was rating a player on their abilities of defending, ball rentention, etc.
SirBalon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 There's also Demetrio Albertini who many aren't thinking about and he was a holding/defensive midfielder. Brilliant player!
SirBalon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Other Italian defensive midfielders Roberto Donadoni Sandro Mazzola Bruno Conti Dino Baggio Valentino Mazzola Marco Tardelli Other great defensive midfielders to think about... Frank Rijkaard Javier Mascherano Graeme Souness Didier Deschamps Fernando Redondo Antonio Rattin Michael Ballack Johan Neeskens Mauro Silva Bryan Robson Diego Simeone Stefan Effenberg
SirBalon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cicero said: Neeskins was a box to box. Yeah, but you're talking about the Mechanical Orange and that was the case with every Dutch player. He was positioned to break up the play and then was great at joining in to be a threat.
Inverted Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Fernando Hierro was by all accounts a monster for Real back in the day.
SirBalon Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Inverted said: Fernando Hierro was by all accounts a monster for Real back in the day. DM was where he started and ended up being a ball playing central defender... A magnificent one to be honest. For anyone that wants to see something amazing, just look at his stats including goalscoring ones.
Fusion Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Voted for Keane because I have some BarcaDNA and I can be biased too. Also Redondo>Biscuits.
Cicero Posted March 17, 2017 Author Posted March 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Fusion said: Voted for Keane because I have some BarcaDNA and I can be biased too. Also Redondo>Biscuits. Fucking hell great shout on Redondo. Can't believe I forgot him.
Cicero Posted March 17, 2017 Author Posted March 17, 2017 Between Redondo and Matthaus for me. Leaning towards the latter.
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