Westworld

[Tommy]

Just watched Episode 3 of the 4th season, wow. 

Loved all the throwbacks to the early seasons. Like the picking up the can being smitten by Dolores thing, and the guy robbing the bar, instead of Hector robbing the saloon. Arriving in a car instead of a horse, but the lines were almost the same. "That`s the Chief's car you son of a bitch", "his gun too", instead of "that's the Sheriff's horse you son of a bitch" - "His rifle too". Amazing. 

I also liked the 30's jazzy version of Billie Eilish's bad guy being played on the Piano. 

Oh and I am also very certain that the woman who picked up Bernard and Stubbs is Caleb's daughter.

[RandoEFC+]

On 11/07/2022 at 23:05, Tommy said:

Just watched Episode 3 of the 4th season, wow. 

 

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Loved all the throwbacks to the early seasons. Like the picking up the can being smitten by Dolores thing, and the guy robbing the bar, instead of Hector robbing the saloon. Arriving in a car instead of a horse, but the lines were almost the same. "That`s the Chief's car you son of a bitch", "his gun too", instead of "that's the Sheriff's horse you son of a bitch" - "His rifle too". Amazing. 

I also liked the 30's jazzy version of Billie Eilish's bad guy being played on the Piano. 

Oh and I am also very certain that the woman who picked up Bernard and Stubbs is Caleb's daughter.

 

I just caught up last night. Good episode, felt like there was a lot going on to process.

I like your theory at the end. Definitely a shout if

they're doing the multiple timeline thing.

[RandoEFC+]

Bruh.

[nudge]

What an episode... I was already loving this season, but these last two episodes were just on a completely different level. To me, very comparable to Season 1 quality, depth, and storytelling-wise.

I think this episode pretty much explained most of what's been going on, very in depth as well. Good stuff.

What are you theories on Christina though? Is she the original innocent Arnold version of Dolores without the Wayne part in her? Is Teddy out of the Sublime and is trying to make her to remember and break her loop? Are Bernard and Maeve (now that they found and, I assume, reactivated her) recruiting the hosts from the Sublime to fight against Halores? Is Christina's roommate an outlier?

[True Blue]

Don't spoil baby boys i need the illegal streams to hit me with episode two and three

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, nudge said:

What an episode... I was already loving this season, but these last two episodes were just on a completely different level. To me, very comparable to Season 1 quality, depth, and storytelling-wise.

 

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I think this episode pretty much explained most of what's been going on, very in depth as well. Good stuff.

What are you theories on Christina though? Is she the original innocent Arnold version of Dolores without the Wayne part in her? Is Teddy out of the Sublime and is trying to make her to remember and break her loop? Are Bernard and Maeve (now that they found and, I assume, reactivated her) recruiting the hosts from the Sublime to fight against Halores? Is Christina's roommate an outlier?

 

Caleb ran out of that building that had the name of the company Dolores is supposed to work for, Olympiad.

My working theory was that Christina was living in Teddy's version of "the sublime" after Akecheta said they all live in their own worlds. Teddy's was one where he was bringing Dolores back, much like Ford used Dolores to rebuild Bernard as Arnold from scratch in that weird wide-screen version of Westworld in Season 2.

However, now I'm thinking that Hale has rebuilt many of the hosts, including Dolores and Teddy, so that they can live in the real world now that she has full control over humans, and the whole time "Christina"'s storyline has been going on in the normal world 23 years in the future. I don't quite know exactly how it works and how the hosts and puppet humans never cross over, except for the occasional "malfunctioning" human like Peter who killed himself in the first episode. Perhaps that's a bit earlier on when Hale wasn't 100% successful converting the adult brains. But I feel like that was the point of showing us Olympiad Entertainment all over the wall of the building Caleb woke up in.

Perhaps poetic justice that Dolores has been given a job in a company where she gets to write stories that apparently seem to manifest themselves in real life like with that Peter guy. Maybe that's what all of the hosts do for "work". It's all a big ironic revenge by Hale on human kind to flip the script and that's why Christina's line manager was encouraging her to come up with less stories about romance and hope and focus on the heartbreak and death stories.

That's my reading of it anyway. Obviously the logical conclusion is that Bernard and Maeve team up with the resistance to stop it all and fix the parasite thing to set up the final season. I wonder what the point is of bringing Caleb back as a host because he's the last one that Hale should have any specific desire to take revenge upon. Hopefully they've come up with a good enough reason not to make me think they just wanted more Aaron Paul.

I agree though, a very strong pair of episodes. I've seen people criticising Tessa Thompson's performance which has surprised me because it's a long time since I can remember being so genuinely scared of a fictional character.

[Tommy]

There's so much to talk about. 

But I just loved the Christina default Dolores meeting Teddy scene. It also looked like it was original Teddy, no? Like he knew... 

Still need to wrap my head around the Bernard, Maeve, Caleb stuff... But I called it that this woman was Caleb's daughter!

[RandoEFC+]

Another very strong episode for me.

I thought since the start that Teddy was there to 'awaken' Dolores in some shape or form ever since he appeared along with the 'maze' logo in the first episode. All that's left to figure out there is who actually put Teddy in Christina's "closed walls" world and why? I had half an idea that we were dealing with some more timeline trickery again but with the overlap between Stubbs and Co with host Man in Black in this episode it seems that we're seeing everything in one timeline now.

The hosts suicide plot line is interesting as the show already moves from the 'my world' revelation to the question of what next for the hosts. I don't really get the transcendence thing though. Do they build hosts, let them play in New York for a couple of years and then upload them to some new version of the "Sublime"?

Hale's idea of how things would be clearly isn't panning out with both hosts and humans occasionally "malfunctioning" (including her even). I'm also not quite sure whether she sees Christina/Dolores as another one of her "pets" or whether she's given her what she sees as a gift in being the one who decides what happens to the humans. Also not sure yet why she bothered to bring back Caleb. I can only think that she's aware his daughter is one of the rebels and may try to use him against them.

One other thing I'm confused about is to what extent the world is actually controlled. We've only actually seen New York and 'the desert' where she apparently can't track them. Are there towers in London, Paris, etc, that she controls? Is the world just "normal" there and humans somehow get turned back from New York by the tower because they're infected but more or less left alone? I can't think of a version of it that fully makes sense but perhaps we aren't supposed to think about it.

Where does the story go now? I'm guessing it sets up the final conflict between Hale and "the good guys" Bernard, Maeve, Dolores and any other 'awake' hosts and the rebel humans.

[Tommy]

Very enjoyable and cool episode! Also Evan Rachel Wood is so gorgeous it hurts. 

 

First of all Ramin Djawadi's piano version of Lou Reed's Perfect Day. 

And Christian realizing she has "powers" was very cool. But why does she have them? What was the plan behind that? And yea, as Rando said, who brought in Teddy to make her realize that? What is Hale/Dolores' plan with her? Very intriguing. 

Also Host William talking to real William was an amazing scene. Seems like real William is still able to influence host William and play his part of the game. Looks like Halores is not on top of the game as she thinks she is? 

Very excited to watch the rest of this season. And excited to see some Bernard & Maeve action!

[Bluewolf]

This whole season has been superb so far... 

[Tommy]

So good. 

[RandoEFC+]

Episode 6

 

Although it didn't really advance the plot much overall, I enjoyed this one again. We got an explanation behind why Hale is determined to reanimate Caleb, which was actually pretty obvious in hindsight. Why the builds are continuing though, I don't know.

The past and present bits with Frankie were cool. Although J as a host failing to kill her was classic WestWorld not being able to decide whether the hosts are invincible killing machines or blundering fools. Oh well, if that was going to bother me so much I wouldn't still be watching. Hopefully now Bernard should have the trust of Frankie and her squad that plot can begin to shuffle along a bit faster in the final two episodes.

A shame there was no Christina or Man In Black this week but hopefully some fireworks to come on that front in the last two weeks.

I will need to find the remix that played over the end credits of this episode.

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

Episode 6

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Although it didn't really advance the plot much overall, I enjoyed this one again. We got an explanation behind why Hale is determined to reanimate Caleb, which was actually pretty obvious in hindsight. Why the builds are continuing though, I don't know.

The past and present bits with Frankie were cool. Although J as a host failing to kill her was classic WestWorld not being able to decide whether the hosts are invincible killing machines or blundering fools. Oh well, if that was going to bother me so much I wouldn't still be watching. Hopefully now Bernard should have the trust of Frankie and her squad that plot can begin to shuffle along a bit faster in the final two episodes.

A shame there was no Christina or Man In Black this week but hopefully some fireworks to come on that front in the last two weeks.

I will need to find the remix that played over the end credits of this episode.

As for the song you're looking for:

 

Anyway,

 

Cool episode. 

Imagine how weird and scary it must be to find multiple decaying or dead versions of yourself. And then you use one as a shield to land on the floor. Urgh. 

And it was funny how Frankie found out who the mole is. Basically because he was an asshole to her when she was a child by telling her she's not his sister. 

Also all these Caleb and his daughter scenes, running through the fields and all was exactly like Maeve and her daughter. And yea, nice to see Maeve back! But who brought her back suddenly? Bernard was tied up, no? 

And yea, Halores is suddenly learning what it means for the Hosts to have free will. They hate her. 

Finally they're using Aaron Paul's acting skills for a change. Only took them like 20 episodes. 

[RandoEFC+]

I heard something on a podcast I listen to after each episode and wondered

Whether what Caleb said to Hale about the hosts killing themselves to get away from her might have fucked her up because it reminded her of this from back when she was Wyatt-era Dolores.

No theories just saying.

[RandoEFC+]

Episode 7

Exciting episode with some great action.

A few questions though.

Did Maeve really get brought back just so that she could die again like that? Was she really the only one who could occupy Hale in that way for like 2 minutes?

There has to be some link between Teddy's appearance in Christina's life and Bernard and Maeve opening the Sublime surely? I can't quite figure out what the ending to their journey was about. "This world is real but you're not".

Bernard's death came across as "final" to me but I expect to see Hale and Maeve again.

I wonder how long Caleb v279 will survive before disintegrating.

Looking forward to host Man in Black being unleashed on the world.

Finally, I wonder how they're going to set up the final season in the last episode.

[Tommy]

What an episode. This season feels more like peak Westworld with every episode. So much better than Season 3. 

 

So Bernard made Stubbs believe that he's the one that is going to die. But Bernard actually said goodbye to him because he knew that he is going to die. Felt sad for Bernard. I like that, when Bernard died, they used the same soundtrack as when he said goodbye to (his imagined) Dr. Ford in Season 2. Generally there were a lot of throwbacks Soundtrack-Wise. 

The whole Christina not being in "her world" is also going to be interesting. Why does Teddy know so much? Who brought him even back?  Are Christina and Teddy the ones Bernard is refering to who will inherit the world? Adam and Eve style?

And yea, William's copy got more William every scene he was in, and at the end he seemed like peak William again. The old Williams seemed to know and enjoy it. 

Anyway great stuff. 

RIP Bernard you wonderful man, or well...host. I hope you meet Dr. Ford again in your afterlife, even if there isn't one.

Also, using David Bowie's The Man Who Sold the World was perfect for that ending. 

[Tommy]

Thought of something while I was lying in bed last night. 

Could it be that Teddy is Bernard? He's running Dolores through the simulations as a part of her training to prepare her to go toe to toe with the Man in Black in Season 5?

That could also explain who those instructions were for Bernard spoke into his tablet before MiB came along.

[DeadLinesman]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Thought of something while I was lying in bed last night. 

@MUFC

[nudge]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

Thought of something while I was lying in bed last night. 

 

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Could it be that Teddy is Bernard? He's running Dolores through the simulations as a part of her training to prepare her to go toe to toe with the Man in Black in Season 5?

That could also explain who those instructions were for Bernard spoke into his tablet before MiB came along.

 

I think that Teddy is the voice in Christina's head the same way Arnold was the voice in Dolores' head in Season 1 - in other words, it's her own inner voice, part of the bicameral mind on the way to gaining consciousness/sentience/awakening.

It all coming down to a final fight between Dolores and William (or rather versions of them) would be very poetic... But we have still one more season in the works, so I'm not sure they are going to end it like that?

As for the instructions Bernard left on the tablet, if you watch the preview of the next episode (I'm not spoiling it), it seems to be clearly shown who those were for... But it could be a misdirection for sure. He also hid a handgun in the hall he was walking with Maeve, so I think everything goes according to his plan and he did exactly what he had to do. He's definitely dead though, isn't he? I don't think Hale, Maeve, or human William are though. I definitely hope they haven't killed Maeve off .

This show is so damn dark though, I love it  

[Tommy]

A 5 minute preview for the finale? I think I rather don't watch it. I want to be surprised. 

[nudge]

1 minute ago, Tommy said:

A 5 minute preview for the finale? I think I rather don't watch it. I want to be surprised. 

It's actually less than a minute, the rest of it is just some behind-the-scenes stuff  

[Viva la FCB+]

Ok so as someone that lost interest maybe 3 or 4 episodes into season 3 I ask; Is this season a redemption? Should I pick it up and slug my way out of season 3? without spoilers just reading Tommy and Bluewolfs comments it sounds good. Whats the consensus?

[Bluewolf]

37 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said:

Ok so as someone that lost interest maybe 3 or 4 episodes into season 3 I ask; Is this season a redemption? Should I pick it up and slug my way out of season 3? without spoilers just reading Tommy and Bluewolfs comments it sounds good. Whats the consensus?

Personally I think this season knocks it out the park.... It has been quality viewing for me.. 

[nudge]

1 hour ago, Viva la FCB said:

Ok so as someone that lost interest maybe 3 or 4 episodes into season 3 I ask; Is this season a redemption? Should I pick it up and slug my way out of season 3? without spoilers just reading Tommy and Bluewolfs comments it sounds good. Whats the consensus?

I lost interest too and strongly disliked Season 3. This new season has been on par with Season 1 for me though, absolute quality.

[Tommy]

Season 3? 

To be fair, it had it's cool moments. But it was all over the place story-wise.