Declan Rice

[Inverted]

He should never have been able to play for Ireland since he's obviously not Irish, but even moreso he shouldn't have been able to swap.

[Large]

9 hours ago, Lucas said:

Sorry, but that's a cop out. He shouldn't be able to do that.

Once you represent a country once in any level, that should be it. Whether it's a friendly or not, they should all still count otherwise you'll continually get farcical decisions like this.

End of story for me.

What’s the cop out though? I generally agree about sticking to a nation once you’ve played for them [although I’d be happy to maybe include an age limit as the kids at elite level just want to play in whatever opportunities come to them] but these are currently the rules. He obviously didn’t have the faith that he’d kick on like he has [although he probably never envisaged changing position and the impact thst would have on his game] and considered Ireland his only option playing at international level. Most of these players unfortunately see international football as an extension to their club football. So they just want to play at the best they can play at.

[Lucas]

1 hour ago, Large said:

What’s the cop out though? I generally agree about sticking to a nation once you’ve played for them [although I’d be happy to maybe include an age limit as the kids at elite level just want to play in whatever opportunities come to them] but these are currently the rules. He obviously didn’t have the faith that he’d kick on like he has [although he probably never envisaged changing position and the impact thst would have on his game] and considered Ireland his only option playing at international level. Most of these players unfortunately see international football as an extension to their club football. So they just want to play at the best they can play at.

Naturally you'll be protective of a player from your club, which I understand. And this is not having a personal pop at Rice, more the system.

But it is a cop out that he can do that like others before him, and he would have been fully aware when selected for the first friendly that he wasn't nailing his colours to the mast until a competitive fixture arrived. 

This issue needs to be nipped in the bud to prevent it continually happening again. Players shouldn't be able to switch allegiances, nor should they be able to get an 'easy' route into international football by having their grandmothers grandmother being Irish, Welsh etc. 

 

[Large]

4 hours ago, Lucas said:

Naturally you'll be protective of a player from your club, which I understand. And this is not having a personal pop at Rice, more the system.

But it is a cop out that he can do that like others before him, and he would have been fully aware when selected for the first friendly that he wasn't nailing his colours to the mast until a competitive fixture arrived. 

This issue needs to be nipped in the bud to prevent it continually happening again. Players shouldn't be able to switch allegiances, nor should they be able to get an 'easy' route into international football by having their grandmothers grandmother being Irish, Welsh etc. 

 

You misunderstand. I'm not sticking up for him, and I definitely wouldn't just because he's a West ham player. I've stated already that I personally wouldn't play for anyone other than England if I was in that position. I'm just saying that it's hardly a cop out as the process allows it. Players are generally too mercenary now to be concerned about any moral argument regarding which national side to play for. They just want opportunities to play in the World Cup, and the current process allows them to do so by switching sides dependant on some loose regulations.

[Lucas]

1 hour ago, Large said:

You misunderstand. I'm not sticking up for him, and I definitely wouldn't just because he's a West ham player. I've stated already that I personally wouldn't play for anyone other than England if I was in that position. I'm just saying that it's hardly a cop out as the process allows it. Players are generally too mercenary now to be concerned about any moral argument regarding which national side to play for. They just want opportunities to play in the World Cup, and the current process allows them to do so by switching sides dependant on some loose regulations.

Listen, we both agree the system is a joke. But how can you insinuate that players are faultless in all this and just lay the blame on the system allowing them to do it? That's not right, it's an easy get out for footballers. A cop out.

All these players in the same boat know the way it works. He's known nothing is set in stone till he plays for them competitively. He's put them on hold by telling them he had to rethink his future. In all fairness, that's the moment Ireland should have ditched him if truth is told.

Read his statement. He's used the words "as a proud Englishman". Well as a 'proud englishman' why play for Ireland in the first place?

I get why he has chosen to use them to get into International Football but he's conveniently used them for his own interests and therefore, it is a cop out for me.

I don't get how you can't see that but we're not all here to agree and I respect your difference in opinion. We're probably just splitting hairs now anyway.

 

[Large]

I can see that, just don't agree. The system allows nations to pick players based on a number of factors that have nothing to do with your actual nationality. Christ, Charlton would be knocking on your door if he found out that you'd once had a Guinness when he was running ROI. It's a flawed system but I'm just saying I don't think there's any cop out. ROI had no issue approaching him even though his only link was 2 generations away. From my experience a good proportion of pro players will take any opportunity given to them to perhaps play at the World Cup. The decision by ROI to select him was for their own interests even though he actually is English/British, so why shouldn't Rice's decision be in his own interest?

[Vegan Kel]

I think this case has highlighted how players pick some random country they have no affiliation with because their granny had a couple of U2 albums and drink Guinness and then when they have a chance to play for their own country they turn tail. All my Irish pals wanted him to do one as soon as he said he wasn't 100% committed to Ireland and they are delighted that he won't play for Ireland again.

[The Artful Dodger]

I'm not too fussed on people playing for a country their Grandparents came from, it may not be true for all but many diaspora relatives leave a huge imprint on the family and give a cultural connection to that country. I just dislike the chopping and changing, take all the nationality stuff out of it; it's just wrong, you shouldn't waste people's time for years, coaches, fans, managers etc and then switch when it becomes apparent you can play for a better team (which is what this is) it's just fickle. We have club football for that, where local fans/players are not regarded with any importance whatsoever. International football is boring and pointless enough as it is, this sort of thing only makes it worse.

[Danny]

I can see wanting to play for both, but I think if I were a footballer as much as I’d love to represent Ireland I wouldn’t want to do it at the expense of an Irish born player coming through Irish systems. That has to be the goal, for Ireland and other smaller countries to produce their own talent consistently.

I’m glad he’s not playing for Ireland as clearly his heart wasn’t in it.

[Dan+]

Should be made to declare your nationality along with your first ever professional contract.

[Dave]

5 hours ago, Dan said:

Should be made to declare your nationality along with your first ever professional contract.

Half the young players aren't aware on their 17th birthday who they can play for. Callum O'Dowda being a case in example. He was told of his Irish ancestry after he had established himself in the Oxford home team. Ireland have really taken to him since.

Declan Rice is part of a 'well known' family in the Kingston area where I grew up. His ties to Ireland are weak at best.

[Large]

1 hour ago, The Palace Fan said:

Half the young players aren't aware on their 17th birthday who they can play for. Callum O'Dowda being a case in example. He was told of his Irish ancestry after he had established himself in the Oxford home team. Ireland have really taken to him since.

He’s called Callum O’Dowda and he didn’t know he had Irish ancestry?

[Dan+]

On 16/02/2019 at 08:38, The Palace Fan said:

Half the young players aren't aware on their 17th birthday who they can play for. Callum O'Dowda being a case in example. He was told of his Irish ancestry after he had established himself in the Oxford home team. Ireland have really taken to him since.

Declan Rice is part of a 'well known' family in the Kingston area where I grew up. His ties to Ireland are weak at best.

Still think you're old enough by that age to know what your genuine nationality is. I could make a discovery this week that I've got a load of Belarusian ancestry but I'd still feel English over Belarusian.

[Vegan Kel]

Just to make it clear in case my post was misinterpreted, I don't have a problem with English born players wanting to represent Ireland if they feel Irish (such as Kevin Kilbane) but it's pretty clear that he doesn't when he uses the phrase "As a proud Englishman...". I don't think this makes him a bad person but it does highlight the insanity of international football where players can chop and change nationality or play for a country because they spent X years in a foreign country as a player and were never good enough to play for their own nation (too many examples to list here)

[Dave]

47 minutes ago, Dan said:

Still think you're old enough by that age to know what your genuine nationality is. I could make a discovery this week that I've got a load of Belarusian ancestry but I'd still feel English over Belarusian.

You'd still choose Belarus because you're shit at football and can't be picky.

[Dan+]

1 minute ago, The Palace Fan said:

You'd still choose Belarus because you're shit at football and can't be picky.

I'd have picked England at 17.

[Storts]

9 hours ago, Cannabis said:

Not the sharpest tool 

Oh the irony! 

[True Blue]

He represented Ireland already, he shouldn't be allowed to switch his national team. I would force a rule that you can only play for your birth country, and yes i know Declan is born in England. The origin rules make things complicated with players switching national sides as they see a better chance.

[Spike]

On 18/02/2019 at 03:20, True Blue said:

He represented Ireland already, he shouldn't be allowed to switch his national team. I would force a rule that you can only play for your birth country, and yes i know Declan is born in England. The origin rules make things complicated with players switching national sides as they see a better chance.

There goes half of your national team then. Pjanic would defs be the be the best Luxoumbergish player ever

[True Blue]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

There goes half of your national team then. Pjanic would defs be the be the best Luxoumbergish player ever

Wouldn't mind it