Everton Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

33 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Everton are still one of the best clubs in the country in terms of producing young players, hopefully some of these turn out better than Tom Davies.

Word is that this season has been more of a cohesive team effort than the 2017 win which was more about having a selection of individuals who were above the level of the rest of the league (Davies, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Kenny, Dowell).

The centre backs Morgan Feeney and Lewis Gibson along with the younger Anthony Gordon seem to be the individuals getting the most attention from this current crop.

[Smiley Culture]

Do you lot have a clause on Gomes’ loan to make it permanent? If not, do you reckon you’ll try and get him anyway?

[The Artful Dodger]

Is he up for it? Think he'd be a brilliant permanent signing, but will other options be around? Spurs are rumoured and if they can offer Champions League I doubt he'll stick up here.

[RandoEFC+]

50 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Is he up for it? Think he'd be a brilliant permanent signing, but will other options be around? Spurs are rumoured and if they can offer Champions League I doubt he'll stick up here.

I think he's keen to sign with us but hasn't had anything else stuck under his nose as of yet. Think the club want it done early before the likes of Spurs can get their ducks in a row and potentially tempt him away. 

[The Artful Dodger]

I think Silva is genuinely good with the players, Hull and Watford players rarely have much bad to say about him. So he may be able to swing it.

[CaaC (John)+]

Quote

Andre Gomes: Everton midfielder suspended for three games

Everton midfielder Andre Gomes has been suspended for three games after accepting a charge of violent conduct.

Portugal international Gomes appeared to stamp on Fulham striker Aleksandar Mitrovic in stoppage time as Everton lost 2-0 at Craven Cottage.

The incident was missed by referee Lee Probert during Saturday's game.

Gomes, who is on loan at Everton from Barcelona, will miss games against Manchester United, Crystal Palace and Burnley.

The 25-year-old will be eligible to return for the Toffees' visit to Tottenham on the final day of the Premier League season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47955390

 

 

[RandoEFC+]

 

[LFCMike]

'most passes by a keeper' 

Completed roughly half of them

[Dr. Gonzo]

Ooooh now do most errors leading to a goal.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Ooooh now do most errors leading to a goal.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal

Alisson one behind Pickford but I'd love to know what actually constitutes an error. Is it like Pickford in the derby/Alisson against us as in a direct mistake or is it a misplaced pass 30 seconds earlier where the move has progressed and then a player just fucked up their marking?

I'm obviously presuming it's the former but I can't think of the 2 other errors Alisson has caused that led to goals? Also find it hard to believe that not one player at Leicester has caused more than only 1 error each that led to a goal...

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal

Alisson one behind Pickford but I'd love to know what actually constitutes an error. Is it like Pickford in the derby/Alisson against us as in a direct mistake or is it a misplaced pass 30 seconds earlier where the move has progressed and then a player just fucked up their marking?

I'm obviously presuming it's the former but I can't think of the 2 other errors Alisson has caused that led to goals? Also find it hard to believe that not one player at Leicester has caused more than only 1 error each that led to a goal...

Yeah I can’t think of another error that Alisson’s made leading to a goal other than the one against Leicester, it must be the former like you say. Or my memory is completely failing me.

I’m going to be honest though, while I love giving Pickford stick, he’s obviously a good keeper and one of the better players at Everton. I just knew it was a negative stat he’s high in, low hanging fruit 

[Burning Gold]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal

Alisson one behind Pickford but I'd love to know what actually constitutes an error. Is it like Pickford in the derby/Alisson against us as in a direct mistake or is it a misplaced pass 30 seconds earlier where the move has progressed and then a player just fucked up their marking?

I'm obviously presuming it's the former but I can't think of the 2 other errors Alisson has caused that led to goals? Also find it hard to believe that not one player at Leicester has caused more than only 1 error each that led to a goal...

One against Manchester United where he kneed it to Lukaku. Then maybe the one where we conceded directly from a corner or the one against Fulham.

Anyway, at the risk of drawing the obvious comment by being the third Liverpool fan to respond, clean sheets and penalty saves are stupid ways to rate a goalkeeper. Clean sheets are almost always more to do with the defence than they are the goalkeeper. Penalty saves, while probably a nice morale boost for the team, are barely worth anything over the course of a league season. Pickford's saved Everton a whopping 3 goals from the spot this season, or just under 7% of their current goals against total.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Pickford's saved Everton a whopping 3 goals from the spot this season, or just under 7% of their current goals against total.

When you look at it like that, yes it's minor.

But when you look at it from what the scoreline was at the point of the save, then not only does it mean not conceding again, but helping the team gain points if it went on to stay at that result:

Save 1 - vs Palace; 0-0 at the time, Everton go on to win 2-0. Totally different game you'd imagine if it went 0-1 had Palace scored.

Save 2 - vs Man Utd; 0-0 at the time but obviously the rebound was scored. Man Utd went on to win the game but had it stayed 0-0, he's helped his side gain a point.

Save 3 - vs Newcastle; 1-0 at the time. Newcastle went on to win, but had the result stayed the same, it's 3 points he's helped his side win.

My point being that it's not like he's saved penalties where Everton are 3-0 down and the saves wouldn't have made a difference in all likelihood as the game was lost anyway.

 

[Burning Gold]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

When you look at it like that, yes it's minor.

But when you look at it from what the scoreline was at the point of the save, then not only does it mean not conceding again, but helping the team gain points if it went on to stay at that result:

Save 1 - vs Palace; 0-0 at the time, Everton go on to win 2-0. Totally different game you'd imagine if it went 0-1 had Palace scored.

Save 2 - vs Man Utd; 0-0 at the time but obviously the rebound was scored. Man Utd went on to win the game but had it stayed 0-0, he's helped his side gain a point.

Save 3 - vs Newcastle; 1-0 at the time. Newcastle went on to win, but had the result stayed the same, it's 3 points he's helped his side win.

My point being that it's not like he's saved penalties where Everton are 3-0 down and the saves wouldn't have made a difference in all likelihood as the game was lost anyway.

 

That's a fair argument, but you could make it about any save. There's nothing special about saving penalties (outside of a shootout) and they don't happen often enough to be a significant factor when assessing goalkeepers for me.

My quarrel isn't with Pickford, I think he's quite good and England's best keeper for a long time, although it's mad that he's listed as 6'1.

[RandoEFC+]

While the stats look good, I agree that goalkeepers shouldn't be judged on clean sheets. In those four clean sheets, Liverpool only mustered up a couple of meaningful shots on goal, Chelsea not much after the first ten minutes, Arsenal next to nothing and United only managed one shot on target. More of a positive reflection on our defensive unit.

Penalty saves can be huge though, I'd dispute that one. If you start to develop a good penalty saving record it can put doubt in the heads of the penalty taker. Obviously I'd rather he wasn't called upon to do it very often.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

While the stats look good, I agree that goalkeepers shouldn't be judged on clean sheets. In those four clean sheets, Liverpool only mustered up a couple of meaningful shots on goal, Chelsea not much after the first ten minutes, Arsenal next to nothing and United only managed one shot on target. More of a positive reflection on our defensive unit.

Yeah but there's something to be said about having a good keeper behind a defense, the keeper isn't just an important player because they keep goals out, they're generally a leader and organiser of the defense (in fact, I'd argue we've struggled when we've had keepers that are only good shot stoppers at worse clubs but don't have those leadership qualities once they make the step up to us). I think even a good defense is likely to concede goals when they've got someone they don't trust to not make mistakes behind them - and even if a mistake happens, a good keeper has the trust of his defense that a one off mistake is just a one off mistake.

I agree it's a reflection of the defensive unit. But Pickford's a big part of that defensive unit, despite having made some high profile errors this season he's obviously still been a good player for Everton. I've heard some whoppers (my Evertonian cousin, for one) say some shite about how Pickford should have been dropped for a spell this season and how maybe being the England keeper has gotten to him mentally. And that's just ridiculous. Yes, he's under more scrutiny now because he's the England keeper. That's what happens when you're the England keeper, unfortunately. But he can't be dropped at the first sign of struggle under this pressure, and I think he's done well this season to bounce back from moments of hotheadedness and strange errors - those stats don't indicate that he's suddenly a poor keeper. They indicate he's a good keeper that's had a few shit moments this season - which happens to players sometimes, things aren't always smooth sailing. Especially when you're at a club that's under going a transitional season after a few seasons of botched transitional seasons. He's never going to learn to deal with the pressure if he doesn't get a chance to deal with the pressure.

So it's a good thing for Pickford and Everton that Silva isn't an idiot like my cousin. It's a transitional season, there's going to be poor moments, but there's still plenty to be positive about with Everton. Likewise it's good for Everton that Silva seems to have weathered the storm after Everton's loss of form compared to earlier in the season, where he was looking like he was under real pressure because his side in transition wasn't immediately great. Those early calls for him to get sacked were mental and the last thing Everton need right now is instability.

[Stan]

 

[RandoEFC+]

Davies has signed the contract. He's apparently been reassured about his path going forwards. People criticise him a lot, and a lot of our fans write him off, but we need to bear in mind he hasn't even reached 21 years old yet. Classic case of Everton player hitting the headlines at 18 (goal against City) and everyone thinking he's instantly Rooney come again. The lad's achieved a lot for anyone who hasn't made it to 21 yet, it's just unusual and perhaps a bit underwhelming that he achieved as much at 18 as he has at 20 which makes people think he isn't developing. Even if he doesn't, getting him on a longer contract is a good move from us because he's clearly good enough for lower Premier League or upper Championship and we don't want to be letting our academy products leave for nothing if we can get a fee for them. Obviously prefer to see him become a solid player for us.

As an aside, with Kenny and Davies both left off the bench against Crystal Palace, that's the end of our 1000+ game streak of having an academy player in the matchday squad, which is a shame.

[Cicero]

The moment they lost it 

[RandoEFC+]

I'm not going to laugh at them yet because if I overdo it Brighton will only turn into prime Brazil and win them the league on Sunday, and when I do rub it in it won't be to the lads on here apart from a bit of WUMming because they're not the weird Reds who come out with all sorts of tripe like "we should get a trophy for finishing 2nd" that was going around Twitter last night.

I did see this one on Twitter earlier though that's worth sharing.

 

[RandoEFC+]

Cracking season from our Under 23s looking to complete a league and cup double tonight.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Cracking season from our Under 23s looking to complete a league and cup double tonight.

Your academy is pretty decent

[RandoEFC+]

Goal! Feeney the captain scores.

[RandoEFC+]

Finished 1-0, so that caps off a great season for the under 23s. The quality of the game wasn't amazing, especially in the second half. Boaler looks an exciting talent, needs to work on his decision making though.

[RandoEFC+]

"AlLaRdYcE dId WeLl WhAt Do EvErToN fAnS wAnT".

Good step in the right direction this season, onto better things next season.