Everton Discussion

[Dan+]

On 14/07/2023 at 05:01, The Palace Fan said:

 

 

Can totally see this. So essentially us and them ended up just swapping Coady and Evans.

Evans is a good defender and has probably never quite been as appreciated as he should've been for us. I called it during the time that he was the superior of him and Maguire as a partnership and stand by it.

But there's something a bit off with him for me. I can't escape this idea that despite being made captain here that he was yet another who mentally clocked out of the place and the fact your captain can do that speaks volumes. He's got it in him, after the West Brom debacle too.

He's also played in 8 of Northern Ireland's last 10 games despite being available for less than 50% of ours in the same time period. He's a good defender but he's not quite the leader you could easily think he is.

[RandoEFC+]

Apparently absolutely nothing in the Evans rumour (at the moment).

We could do with another centre back because the pickings after Tarkowski are a mixture of unreliable and unproven. There's apparently a decent chance we'll sell Holgate to Sheffield United for a bit of a fee. I can't see us bringing one in unless this or something similar goes through. Last season we started with 6 centre backs because Lampard wanted the option of playing with a back three. Dyche is very much after a flat back four so when we have 5 senior central defenders in Tarkowski, Keane, Holgate, Godfrey and Branthwaite, I can't see us investing any money or effort in that part of the squad when the full back and forward areas are so bare. 

[Lucas]

Got to say, I'm a bit curious about Everton's strategy this summer.

Signed Young on a free. Obviously talk about Evans whether that's true or false, but again, would be a free.

Then flip side, a lot of chat about Gnonto possibly going there over the past week but seemingly knocked back by us pretty emphatically today.

Was it all smoke and mirrors to appease fans they were showing intent to buy? 

Did they really think we'd sell for such a low bid? We are daft but I'd like to think not that daft. No actual confirmation of a bid either, just us shutting it down.

[RandoEFC+]

On 17/07/2023 at 19:50, Lucas said:

Got to say, I'm a bit curious about Everton's strategy this summer.

Signed Young on a free. Obviously talk about Evans whether that's true or false, but again, would be a free.

Then flip side, a lot of chat about Gnonto possibly going there over the past week but seemingly knocked back by us pretty emphatically today.

Was it all smoke and mirrors to appease fans they were showing intent to buy? 

Did they really think we'd sell for such a low bid? We are daft but I'd like to think not that daft. No actual confirmation of a bid either, just us shutting it down.

Missed this so I'll reply now.

Everton's problem this summer is cash flow, even more so than the profit and sustainability rules. Moshiri was bank-rolled by Usmanov up until he was sanctioned for links to Putin. Moshiri is a billionaire but he's invested more than he could afford into Everton already. New investment has come in over the summer from local businessmen but that money has pretty much gone straight to funding the rest of the stadium project.

There is a small amount of money in the transfer budget and a bit of wriggle room on the wages front, but with about £20m (rough estimate), Everton ideally need to sign half a dozen players. At the bare minimum they need a couple of attacking players which is why Gnonto, Elanga and Danjuma have been the strongest links. Preferably you'd add to that a new backup goalkeeper, a third new attacker and another centre back. There's several players like Gray, Gomes, Maupay, Gbamin and Holgate who are available for the right price but every one of those that leaves creates another gap, on top of the gaps created by Mina, Coady, Davies, Vinagre and Simms leaving since the end of the last season. There's also the complication that if the club wants to utilise Dele Alli, we'll have to pay Spurs £10m after he makes 7 more appearances unless the deal is restructured somehow.

So essentially, Everton are trying to buy about 5 players with about £20m. This is the complication. Man Utd want £15m for Elanga. Everton can afford to pay about £4m up-front and then spread the rest in instalments. Leeds want £20m for Gnonto. Again, Everton can afford to pay this over the course of a few years with a structured deal but not all in one go. It was the same last summer - the headline transfer fee for Dwight McNeil was about £15m but the reality is Burnley agreed we could pay them £3m a year for five years. A number of deals struck over the past few years are similar which is where a lot of our incoming cash goes before it even makes it to the transfer budget for making further signings.

So that's Everton's strategy this summer. Begging, borrowing, stealing. Trying to plug as many gaps as possible with free transfers like Ashley Young and loans like Danjuma so that the small pot of money available can be spread across 3-4 permanent acquisitions instead of 5-6.

And this is our financial situation without relegation. You can't even begin to imagine really where we'd be now if we'd dropped last season or the year before. It would have been a genuine existential crisis for one of the biggest and most historic clubs in the country.

[RandoEFC+]

The dominoes finally taking effect now. With Zaha not renewing with Palace and interest in Olise, the chances of Demarai Gray heading there are increasing. It sounds as if Everton are confident of a sale, be that to Palace or somewhere else, and have a deal more or less in place with Almeria for El Bilal Toure.

Elsewhere, Man Utd are looking to bring in Rasmus Hojlund from Atalanta who are our main rivals for Toure's signature. Got to hope now that Everton can do whatever is needed to secure Toure before Atalanta come into a big fee and can blow us out of the water.

If the Toure thing doesn't come off it sounds like Iheanacho is Plan B.

[Dave]

If we were to sign Demarai Gray I hope we look to play Edouard out on the wide left too. Hopefully competition would get the best out of both players.

I'm not paying much attention to the Olise links, the fact Fabrizio Romano hasn't realised his release clause expired last summer speaks volumes about how much he has fallen.

[RandoEFC+]

I think Gray would be good for Palace. He's a decent option. We just have full backs who aren't very athletic and therefore need help and Gray doesn't provide enough of that compared to Iwobi and McNeil. In our financial position, if there's a player you can probably get about £10m for who you aren't going to miss from the starting eleven then it's a no-brainer to cash in and reinvest the cash.

[RandoEFC+]

Sounds as if El Bilal Toure has chosen Atalanta over Everton.

Can hardly be surprised as they've been a good stepping stone club for young players and are playing in Europe this season.

On to Plan B....

[Dave]

21 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I think Gray would be good for Palace. He's a decent option. We just have full backs who aren't very athletic and therefore need help and Gray doesn't provide enough of that compared to Iwobi and McNeil. In our financial position, if there's a player you can probably get about £10m for who you aren't going to miss from the starting eleven then it's a no-brainer to cash in and reinvest the cash.

It sounds like the noise is coming from the Everton camp who are looking to generate interest in players to raise cash. He's allegedly on our list but Mattheus Franca is the likely first attacking minded arrival.

[Dave]

Budget Cody Rhodes vibes.

 

[Redcanuck]

How good is Amadou Onana, who is being linked to United?  Everton paid just under £35m last year , so I imagine he will cost at least  £50m , maybe more.  Is there any truth to the rumour that United are in for him?

[RandoEFC+]

19 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

How good is Amadou Onana, who is being linked to United?  Everton paid just under £35m last year , so I imagine he will cost at least  £50m , maybe more.  Is there any truth to the rumour that United are in for him?

Romano reckons Amrabat is Utd's first choice but Onana is a potential alternative.

Good physical attributes and a great tackler when running back. High ceiling but very raw and unpolished.

I'd have taken £50m earlier in the summer but at this point in the window and with him being involved in the plans throughout pre-season I'd hope to see us hold out for closer to £60m now if United come in for him.

[Stan]

Broken cheekbone for Calvert-Lewin

 

 

[Dave]

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, The Palace Fan said:

 

 

The toxic atmosphere the higher ups at Everton are responsible for creating is probably awful for the players. I can understand being frustrated when you've got a key player that's constantly injured, but I can't understand giving them stick for it at a match. It's not like the player wants to be constantly out injured. And it's not like the other players want to be shit and completely out of confidence.

I know it's hard for Everton fans to be positive when they go to a match and they see a bunch of millionaires look lost and completely out of confidence, on the back of a bad season when they haven't seen many changes that indicate they're not going to have another bad season. But it's got to be hard for the players to not hear a lot of positivity from their fans. That's the problem with these miserably toxic situations, if the atmosphere festers you've just got this awful feedback loop of toxicity from the fans to the players and the players back to the fans. And I don't think it can really stop unless the team or the board can give the fans something to have some positivity going forward.

It seems pretty miserable from a certain POV. And from other POVs it's kind of entertaining.

[Stan]

@RandoEFC is this as bad as it seems?

 

 

[Whiskey]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

@RandoEFC is this as bad as it seems?

 

 

I know this was aimed at Rando but yeah it's massive. Moshiri is the owner, but unofficially the club was bankrolled by Usmanov.

Once the Russian sanctions hit we lost his funding, which was the funding used for transfers and the stadium - which is now why we are so financially constrained.

The stadium will cripple us IMO, we'll be another Valencia. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if we don't own the stadium once built and it ends up being some weird lease type scenario.

[RandoEFC+]

What an absolute diseased carcass of a football club.

It just goes to show that football now boils down to little more than whether or not the Saudis/Americans/Iranians/Thais that fancy buying your club are sensible or lunatics.

Moshiri and Kenwright have turned one of the historical biggest clubs into the country into an absolute mess and a laughing stock. We as fans can't do anything about it but we're the ones who have to go through the emotional ringer and put up with the jibes from other fanbases who are lucky enough not to have ownership and management this fucking disastrous inflicted upon them.

I don't really know how much or how badly the MSP stuff affects us but it's just more bad news relating to the club.

[RandoEFC+]

 

Just fuck off. Club has been absolutely hijacked by cowboys and charlatans. An absolute miracle it's still a Premier League club.

I'd sack the whole thing off tomorrow if I could but after 30 years it feels like giving your only child up for adoption. I hate what a small group of absolutely rotten individuals have done to ruin my football club.

[Whiskey]

Not one bit arsed about the Wolves game, get these snakes fucked right off. 

Sad thing is it's way, way too late. The club is actually fucked - I seriously think we could be the first "big" club to go pop.

Up the AFC Everton United.

[RandoEFC+]

It's about time people stop reporting it as "Everton did this" and "Everton have messed this up" and "hahaha look at how incompetent Everton are" and start talking about Moshiri and Kenwright instead.

I just wonder when our ownership is going to actually start getting some bad press from the national media like Mike Ashley, the Glazers, Tony Fernandes, Venky's, the Cardiff owners who tried to change their kit and the Americans who almost sent Liverpool into administration did.

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

It's about time people stop reporting it as "Everton did this" and "Everton have messed this up" and "hahaha look at how incompetent Everton are" and start talking about Moshiri and Kenwright instead.

I just wonder when our ownership is going to actually start getting some bad press from the national media like Mike Ashley, the Glazers, Tony Fernandes, Venky's, the Cardiff owners who tried to change their kit and the Americans who almost sent Liverpool into administration did.

Gonna be tough when Kenwright's got so many friends in the media tbh. It's probably how he's had a pretty easy ride whittling down Everton's ambitions over the past few decades with little pushback on how shit he is at running a club from the media.

[LFCMike]

12 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

It's about time people stop reporting it as "Everton did this" and "Everton have messed this up" and "hahaha look at how incompetent Everton are" and start talking about Moshiri and Kenwright instead.

I just wonder when our ownership is going to actually start getting some bad press from the national media like Mike Ashley, the Glazers, Tony Fernandes, Venky's, the Cardiff owners who tried to change their kit and the Americans who almost sent Liverpool into administration did.

Hicks and Gillett didn't really get any bad press until it was almost too late. The fans protesting got loads of shit, even from our own. I remember one of the SOS lads arguing with Jim White on Sky Sports News about why we were protesting 

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

Hicks and Gillett didn't really get any bad press until it was almost too late. The fans protesting got loads of shit, even from our own. I remember one of the SOS lads arguing with Jim White on Sky Sports News about why we were protesting 

Maybe it's a scouse thing then because I feel as though that's what it's like with us now. The fans getting shit for being "toxic" and being cited as a reason we can't attract players while it's completely ignored that Kenwright and then Moshiri have spent years driving the club into debt, pissing money out the window, making their mates rich and overseeing the managed decline of the football club.

Not that I'm defending a handful of fans who have certainly overstepped the mark over the past couple of weeks with the booing of DCL and social media comments directed toward Maupay and Onana. But these things happen at every club and have nothing to do with the position Everton are currently in.

[Dr. Gonzo]

18 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Maybe it's a scouse thing then because I feel as though that's what it's like with us now. The fans getting shit for being "toxic" and being cited as a reason we can't attract players while it's completely ignored that Kenwright and then Moshiri have spent years driving the club into debt, pissing money out the window, making their mates rich and overseeing the managed decline of the football club.

Not that I'm defending a handful of fans who have certainly overstepped the mark over the past couple of weeks with the booing of DCL and social media comments directed toward Maupay and Onana. But these things happen at every club and have nothing to do with the position Everton are currently in.

For the record, I don't blame the fans for the toxicity. I blame Kenwright and Moshiri entirely. Kenwright for spending a lot of time managing expectations and gradually winding down all ambition Everton had as a football club, and Moshiri for being an unhinged lunatic that wasted Everton's money with fuck all to show for it.

I'm not sure booing DCL for getting injured is particularly helpful, but when the people in charge of a football club have done all they can to create the most unhealthy atmosphere possible at a football club... it's going to happen, players are going to get grief for shit that isn't their fault. It's just the nature of fans being desperate and angry.

Like @LFCMike said, Gillett & Hicks got a pretty easy ride for a long time until their goodwill with the media wore off. I think it's a bit tougher for you because Kenwright's made his money in the media - it will be remarkably difficult for his media goodwill to truly wear off. You don't produce theatre, films, and music without building a pretty solid set of media connections. I think it's why so very few people asked questions of why Everton had fallen so far from their peak, despite being one of the biggest sides in the country tbh.