UK Politics

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Inverted said:

May's interview with the Plymouth herald...

Is that real? 

RE: last night, agree the format was rubbish and the chaos would have been even worse had May been there, sad to see that's our top politicians' idea of debate but we knew that already.

I thought Amber Rudd did okay to be fair to her but not having it was a biased Labour audience.

There was no point in the Greens, Plaid Cymru or Ukip being there at all. Should have just kept it to the four relevant parties. 

Tim Farron is an absolute embarrassing mong too. 

[Inverted]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Is that real? 

RE: last night, agree the format was rubbish and the chaos would have been even worse had May been there, sad to see that's our top politicians' idea of debate but we knew that already.

I thought Amber Rudd did okay to be fair to her but not having it was a biased Labour audience.

There was no point in the Greens, Plaid Cymru or Ukip being there at all. Should have just kept it to the four relevant parties. 

Tim Farron is an absolute embarrassing mong too. 

It's totally genuine.

And yeah I especially don't see why UKIP are there, they only got 1 seat at their pre-Brexit peak and have basically collapsed back into irrelevance with the Tories adopting their platform. 

A bit of a slap in the face to have them there, and Northern Ireland gets nobody. 

[Bluebird Hewitt]

Corbyn Run anybody?

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Some proper Tory boys on here aren't there, fuck me.

May has contributed massively to Corbyn's resurgence, she's made an absolute hash of what should have been a stroll. 

[Honey Honey]

The debate was a format that doesn't work for us, we are not a political spectrum electoral system with people arguing from ideological stand points. We have a system built on pragmatic policy. 4 of the 7 party's were indistinguishable in debate which made it largely a waste of time and slowed down the quality of discussion that is possible.

Last night's audience probably wasn't bias it was just a trick of perceptions due to how boisterous the left leaning party's supporters were. The whole thing was about who could deliver a line that got applause, not enough time was available for what policies would or wouldn't work. Caroline Lucas has always been the best at delivering those lines. Farron and Robertson had their moments but they also both had their attempts at a killer line met with stonewall silence when you could tell in their voice they thought they were landing a big one, which shows how lame the debate process has become. Boohoo Paul Nuttal isn't very good at it so he wants to scrap the BBC, tit.

 

[Honey Honey]

The ComRes bloke involved in selecting the audience last night has just been on DP. He said if you actually watch what the audience were doing you'll see half are clapping and half aren't. He said it's not rigged nor is the applause you can hear somehow reflective of mass popularity for an idea.

[The Artful Dodger]

It stands to reason that Corbyn would get more applause, his policies get massive approval ratings across the country, it's him that has struggled with his own reputation.

Plus his rhetoric is more emotive and passionate, talking about helping people and fighting against inequality is going to inspire more response than going 'look at the deficit' line from the Conservative.

[Honey Honey]

The audience were noiser in support of immigration and also jeered the host for asking Corbyn a question about costings which is what also contributed to aroused suspicion. As the show went on more were gaining confidence to woop, cheer and jeer.

It's just that in the leftist proportion there was a rowdy and boisterous bunch, no need to scrap the BBC. There was one guy in the front row, looked in his 20s, couldn't contain himself throughout.

It's probably best in future to get undecided voters who pass a maturity test instead of getting people who have already nailed their colours to the mast and are coming along to woop, boo and laugh.

[Honey Honey]

Based on yougov projections that might have to happen. Some of these Trotsky Trumps have a real chip on their shoulder about the media. 

[Honey Honey]

With a poll out this morning that 50% of London will vote Corbyn and 2 people, SirBalon and his neighbour, will vote lib dems (  ), Gideon Osborne has had his free paper mouth piece dish out this pretty poorly constructed warning about Corbyn. Panicking are we Gideon?

 

 

[Inverted]

He was quite happily sticking the boot into her earlier, perhaps he feels that he's went too far.

Edit:

Sit the fuck doon Karen

 

[Honey Honey]

Owned that daft cunt trying to catch him out.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

[Inverted]

15 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Owned that daft cunt trying to catch him out.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

Surely fucking not 

[God is Haaland]

2 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Based on yougov projections that might have to happen. Some of these Trotsky Trumps have a real chip on their shoulder about the media. 

I know who Trotsky was and I know who Trump is, but what are "Trotsky Trumps"?

[Dr. Gonzo]

39 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Owned that daft cunt trying to catch him out.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

I don't understand how she can call an election and then do all she can to hide from the public. I understand she's unlikeable and still probably going to win, but it seems fucking ridiculous to call for Britain to be unified under her leadership when she doesn't even want to face the media.

[RandoEFC+]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't understand how she can call an election and then do all she can to hide from the public. I understand she's unlikeable and still probably going to win, but it seems fucking ridiculous to call for Britain to be unified under her leadership when she doesn't even want to face the media.

Got to be about the worst election campaign ever. She/they have literally just assumed that everyone hates Labour enough that they can call an election, do nothing, and gain a larger majority. Problem is they've been caught out by Team Corbyn playing a blinder from day one and they've got no response. Forget about a Plan B, they didn't even really make a Plan A because they were arrogant enough to believe they didn't need to and the public can smell it.

[Honey Honey]

23 minutes ago, True Bender said:

I know who Trotsky was and I know who Trump is, but what are "Trotsky Trumps"?

Trots who talk about the media like Donald Trump does.

[Honey Honey]

The YouGov poll model suggesting the Tories will lose their majority has been torn apart. Looks a bit of a farce based on what some have uncovered. For example based on a poll of 75 people in one constituency where the Tories have a 16k majority and have won for 70 years yougov's model calls it a dead heat between Labour and the Tories.

If other polling methods are correct it will be a 40-80 seat majority which is why May can't be arsed entertaining debates over a 2 year extension. Her internal party polling will tell her she doesn't have to.

She's happy to just say her supporters think the left should go back to the drawing board and give her a call when they've come up with something worthy of a challenge. 

[Fairy In Boots]

18 hours ago, Inverted said:

@Fairy In Boots

Tbf Sturgeon is still First Minister, which is pretty much as relevant as she can be as an Indy advocate within the UK. She has no responsibilities to anyone outwith Scotland, and she's not up for election on the 8th, so I'm no sure I get your points on her absence.

And considering her attitude on immigration compared to yours, I'm not quite sure you're in a position to call her a xenophobe there. 

Maybe you think she's an Anglophobe, which is a common perception amongst people who hold Scotland in such little regard that they pay no attention to its politics. And considering your stormer of a Mackrel gag, you're not being very subtle in trying to show-off how little you care about what happens up here. 

lol I would have thought it was fairly obvious I was being facetious about Sturgeon, considering you attacked May for her absence and Corbyn wasn't scheduled but changed his mind at the 11th hour, I was just teasing you. With regards to immigration I'm concerned about the sheer numbers and its effect, this doesn't make me a xenophobe. You live in a city like mine you feel the effects daily. Keep going with that school of thought though it's serving left wing political movements so well globally.

19 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

@Fairy In Boots I respect that you've taken the time to make all those very well reasoned arguments, when you've decided you've decided and clearly we're two people with very different positions on this that won't be changed at this stage.

It's okay to talk the numbers game when it comes to budget deficits, private sectors and public sectors, but I'm asking what reducing the deficit does for actual people. "No business being a teacher", I'd say back that there's no need for you to start throwing insults when the rest of your post is such high quality. I've done an A level and joint degree in economics so I know enough about budget surplus and deficit ta, while my PGCE and masters in education will attest to what business I have being a teacher. The deficit may have been reduced but it's foolish to use that as evidence that the economy is back on track when many in my generation will have to wait until their mid 30s to even think about affording a mortgage while zero hour contracts paper over the cracks of how many people can't get proper work. I'll steer clear of the convenient "nurses visiting food banks" sound bite but you get the point I'm sure. 

Like you've said, I have experience of education and nothing in the private sector, and I won't presume to know what your life experiences are, but when I started in my current job I was one of five maths teachers in a department with a teaching assistant. As of September, the same school with the same number of kids will have three maths teachers, the teaching assistant taking some classes of their own because there isn't enough money to get enough qualified teachers to cover the timetable. This rate of staff cutting is consistent across the school more or less, and is becoming the norm across the country. Again, I don't know your level of knowledge on this but I can assure you that schools having to operate like this is seriously damaging the education of a generation of children and that's why I'm voting Labour, and why I'd still vote Labour even if I didn't agree with any of their other policies. This country is nowhere if the next generation isn't educated properly.

HOWEVER, I'm completely against the university fees situation. The idea behind it is nice but it's an absolutely outrageous expense with the economy as it is to be paying £9000 a year so Softcuntlad Chinowanker can go and get pissed at Sheffield Hallam for three years and walk away with a 2:1 in media studies after getting two Es at A Level before sitting on the dole for six months. Not even an exaggeration either. I know dozens from my school alone who fit this bill, we were pretty much the last to get through before the new fees came in. 

Either way, I fear that we're utterly fucked either way. A Labour government may improve education, health and welfare but will drive us back into a budget deficit in doing so as their £80K plus tax targets and cooperations leave the country due to Brexit and increased taxes, while a Tory government will continue as they have tightening the belt and reducing quality of life for swathes of the population in an attempt to pay off the crushing divorce payment we'll end up spaffing to Brussels following the Brexit negotiations.

Fucking Farage.

Edit: Forgot to address one point you made on class sizes. Yes uncontrolled immigration will lead to bigger classes on average across the country but you're probably talking going from 22 kids to 24 kids every few years, it depends where you are, my area isn't that affected. However, the impact of strangling education spending has a bigger impact, some schools losing a quarter of their teachers in some subjects, for example. Then instead of having 4 teachers to teach 100 kids (25 per class) you've got 3 teachers (33 per class). Possibly an extreme example but take my word for it, it's fucking grim.

Reducing the deficit makes tax pounds go further, we're spending billions on instrest on loans when we could be spending that on education or the NHS and education because we're borrowing to plug the hole.  You're a labour voter but don't understand the concept that national debt is a shared burden? I'm sorry I don't see how you can't follow this, why are you voting for a slightly socialist party if you don't understand the concept of shared burdens or shared progression? 

Btw it's 80k because Corbyn earns 73k and like all great socialist of the past he'll put his hand in your pocket but not his own. This threshold will cripple middle classes in London I expect a lot of furious champagne socialists post election if he does get in. 

Also why are companies going to leave post Brexit, most of those trading here are foreign and if you've spent anytime working for them you know they siop profit and resources back home as best they can. I was in a German firm today that's asset stripping part of the UK custom and shedding uk jobs to help prop up the German side. I see this pretty much daily from out European friends. 

Also I'm assuming you're from Liverpool a city with very little immigration, try fucking Birmingham you can add another 10 to your class sizes, London, Leicester all the same. 

10 hours ago, Inverted said:

The audience was selected for socio-economic diversity. If Rudd wanted cheers maybe she should have said something that they agreed with, rather than insulting their intelligence. 

The fact is that the Tories' strength lies in their support from the largest forces in print media. It's often been the case that when people get a chance to see things for themselves, and get the arguments from the horses' mouths, rather than the Mail or the Telegraph's impression of the arguments, they actually find themselves doubting their position. The Tories minimise actual exposure, and let their pals like Lord Rothermere and Paul Dacre pick up the slack for them by smearing the other parties. 

To put it simply: Labour's strength is that a Corbyn can win over a room. The Conservatives' strength is that the day after, they have the biggest papers in the country saying he flopped.

 

Lol the first line, the BBC are at this point just a laughing stock to everyone who's not a SJW. He was overshadowed by homophobe Farron talking about cake not policy. 

 

 

[Fairy In Boots]

Love how I'm labelled xenophobe in this discussion by those supporting a man from a party with a well documented anti Semitic problem which he bribed the investigator to gloss over. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

16 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

 

Reducing the deficit makes tax pounds go further, we're spending billions on instrest on loans when we could be spending that on education or the NHS and education because we're borrowing to plug the hole.  You're a labour voter but don't understand the concept that national debt is a shared burden? I'm sorry I don't see how you can't follow this, why are you voting for a slightly socialist party if you don't understand the concept of shared burdens or shared progression? 

Btw it's 80k because Corbyn earns 73k and like all great socialist of the past he'll put his hand in your pocket but not his own. This threshold will cripple middle classes in London I expect a lot of furious champagne socialists post election if he does get in. 

Also why are companies going to leave post Brexit, most of those trading here are foreign and if you've spent anytime working for them you know they siop profit and resources back home as best they can. I was in a German firm today that's asset stripping part of the UK custom and shedding uk jobs to help prop up the German side. I see this pretty much daily from out European friends. 

Also I'm assuming you're from Liverpool a city with very little immigration, try fucking Birmingham you can add another 10 to your class sizes, London, Leicester all the same. 

 

 

Paragraph 1: Fair argument, but it's an age old one. Labour argue that public spending leads to spenders having more money which bolsters the economy which yields more tax which helps you pay off the government debt. It works in theory, whether or not it works in practice remains to be seen.

Paragraph 2: Neither here nor there. Likewise, I expect a lot of furious teachers, nurses etc. across the country if May gets back in.

Paragraph 3: If the Brexit deal is shite, which it probably will be realistically regardless of Corbyn or May, trading from the UK will not be beneficial. Any large company which sells a lot of products to EU member countries will get hit massively by any deal which doesn't see us strike a beneficial deal on trade tariffs. May might try to keep them around by cutting corporation tax again which the Tories will pay for by strangling the public sector even more.

Paragraph 4: Not from Liverpool but have spent some time working there. I currently work near Preston. According to this page, the UK foreign-born population has risen from 7% to 13.5% since 1993. So across the country, on average, you're looking at a couple of extra kids per class due to immigration. Visit the website School Cuts, for a projection of the impact of Tory cuts as an equivalent of how many teachers each school will lose and tell me that will have a smaller impact on class sizes than immigration.

Something I'm genuinely interested in is this - if you wouldn't bring skilled people in as immigrants and you wouldn't invest in education to ensure we produce skilled workers in the UK, who is going to keep the country afloat in 20, 30, 40 years' time?

[Honey Honey]

13 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Love how I'm labelled xenophobe in this discussion by those supporting a man from a party with a well documented anti Semitic problem which he bribed the investigator to gloss over. 

 

 

"For the many not the Jew" as the party election slogan goes 

Labour are polling 10% down in the Jewish community under Corbyn.

There were a couple of anti-semite comments online at the Jewish interviewer who caught him out on the radio the other day when he couldn't find his figures. It was probably Ken Livingstone's secret accounts.

 

[Honey Honey]

News this morning that criminal proceedings have been brought against the Conservative MP and one of his aids in Thanet South over undeclared election expenses in 2015 when he beat Nigel Farage by 2800 votes.

 

[God is Haaland]

17 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Love how I'm labelled xenophobe in this discussion by those supporting a man from a party with a well documented anti Semitic problem which he bribed the investigator to gloss over. 

 

Not sure if 4chan.org/pol/ post or British tabloid journalism.

[Honey Honey]

Theresa Mayhem's new tactic on show in the debates on BBC now... to keep pointing out that Diane Abbott would be in power.