UK Politics

[Bluebird Hewitt]

6 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Owen Smith has been appointed to the shadow cabinet as Northern Ireland secretary.

 Hewitt will be spitting out his Glamorgan sausage

Only senior figure to quit the frontbench in 2016 to return following better than expected results according to BBC. I'm sure his ass kissing message to Corbyn when the result was announced had no bearing whatsoever. 

Opportunistic deceiving cunt.

[Honey Honey]

To be fair someone who would negotiate with ISIS is probably a good fit for Northern Ireland secretary 

[Fairy In Boots]

love how absolutely nothing has been made of Corbyn basically admitting he was talking shit and couldn't deliver what he promised at the weekend. 

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

love how absolutely nothing has been made of Corbyn basically admitting he was talking shit and couldn't deliver what he promised at the weekend. 

The general public is back in "don't give a shit" mode again now. Wait until they've got something to vote for again and we'll all get life or death passionate about which shade of brown looks the least like cholera-induced diarrhea again.

[Inverted]

Speaking of "don't give a shit mode" it seems that the Tories have managed to distract attention from their 21st-century Enabling Law by wheeling out one of their many charming aristocratic bigots to say that post-rape abortion is wrong. 

On Monday, the Tories will try to seize the power to create basically any law without any scrutiny or approval. Unless there are substantial rebellions in the Tory party, they'll succeed.

Meanwhile, the Tory press is hard at work trying to scream over any criticisms or dissent as unpatriotic, or treacherous, or whatever term they've recently pulled out of the fascist handbook for destroying democratic constitutional orders. 

[Panflute]

It was a mistake of Rees whatever to talk about post-rape abortion because it's so exceedingly rare that it shouldn't influence one's general take on the issue of abortion.

[Honey Honey]

It was a car crash interview because he dived in with fervent Catholicism thinking that would be a suitable reply. Poor judgement by someone in an interview about being the next Prime Minister.

[Burning Gold]

51 minutes ago, Panflute said:

It was a mistake of Rees whatever to talk about post-rape abortion because it's so exceedingly rare that it shouldn't influence one's general take on the issue of abortion.

He was asked. He's a devout Catholic, though, so I'm not sure why so many are surprised that he takes a hardline stance on the issue.

[Fairy In Boots]

I disagree with Mogg on both issues although as I grow older and am now a parent I lean more towards pro life after conception. Use contraception before, a vacuum up your chuff is not birth control. 

It wasn't car crash though I thought he handled both fairly well, he basically said "I'm catholic my faith says this, I subscribe to that thought process. However I respect that the law suppercedes this and the public have no appetite for this positions so they're not changing back, and I'll just have to live with it". It's probably the most honest thing an mp has said in sometime, I think if you're basing your election decisions against these two points you're basically a thick cunt. 

[Honey Honey]

That response was too late into the interview to prevent the follow up onslaught. As with Tim Farron, poor performance.

[Fairy In Boots]

1 minute ago, HoneyNUFC said:

That response was too late into the interview to prevent the follow up onslaught. As with Tim Farron, poor performance.

Farron didn't answer and it wasn't a fair interview, Morgan & Reid had blatantly set it up that way, he was there to talk about Brexit, which was never mentioned. Pure hatchet job and when he could get a word in he did answer it three times. 

[Honey Honey]

38 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Farron didn't answer and it wasn't a fair interview, Morgan & Reid had blatantly set it up that way, he was there to talk about Brexit, which was never mentioned. Pure hatchet job and when he could get a word in he did answer it three times. 

Perhaps the worst thing that happened for him is that he won Breitbarts approval 

It's not the same as what happened to Farron but you've got to lead by strongly palming it off as irrelevant and nothing to be concerned about. 

Theresa May will be delighted.

[Fairy In Boots]

8 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Perhaps the worst thing that happened for him is that he won Breitbarts approval 

It's not the same as what happened to Farron but you've got to lead by strongly palming it off as irrelevant and nothing to be concerned about. 

Theresa May will be delighted.

I like Mogg, his achilles heel is his catholiscm, It's election kryponite and we all know it. I said as much 3-4 pages back in this thread I liked him but he won't get the chance to fight an election as the media will just relentlessly attack the same sex marriage & abortion. On the whole though Mogg is an intelligent man and a brexiteer, he's fairly principled to which is why he's got a grass roots following. The Mogg momentum is much more of a grass roots swell to sack the one nation conservativism off, than an endorsement of him personally. 

[The Artful Dodger]

The thing with Mogg is he says he holds his Christian beliefs dear, which is fair enough and I respect the right to hold any that opinion as much as I personally disagree, and also tries to paint himself as some kind of victim of a liberal brouhaha whilst freely expressing his views on a prime time national television programme. There's been barely been a peep of criticism from newspapers who would be lining up to condemn him if he were from another background, for sure.

It's also noticeable that his Christian conscience only rears its head when it's preventing people from doing things, where was his Christianity when he voted to reduce benefits for people with disabilities or helping child refugees? 

[Honey Honey]

It's the go to response these days of people whose opinion degrades or humiliates others to then cry that they are the real victim when the response is to degrade and humiliate them. Bless. Seen it on this forum a couple of times from the gay haters. Can give it out but they can't take it.

[Fairy In Boots]

40 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

It's the go to response these days of people whose opinion degrades or humiliates others to then cry that they are the real victim when the response is to degrade and humiliate them. Bless. Seen it on this forum a couple of times from the gay haters. Can give it out but they can't take it.

I take it that's aimed at me

[Honey Honey]

4 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I take it that's aimed at me

In one sense no, I don't really recall you doing it on gay issues to be honest. But I can't deny that I have at least once seen you reciting this technique. Didn't exist until the Trump campaign, now it is everywhere, on TV, in social media, in the press, on youtube.

It's effective. If someone wants to reverse what is making them a social pariah without amending their attitude then what better way to do it than to create a sense of being wronged. 

[Fairy In Boots]

3 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

In one sense no, I don't really recall you doing it on gay issues to be honest. But I can't deny that I have at least once seen you reciting this technique. Didn't exist until the Trump campaign, now it is everywhere, on TV, in social media, in the press, on youtube.

It's effective. If someone wants to reverse what is making them a social pariah without amending their attitude then what better way to do it than to create a sense of being wronged. 

I think there's a genuine complaint in some instances, Mogg for example was attacked two on one, he laid out his position and they tried to twist it or give extreme examples to rubbish his point. It's what politics has dumbed down to in the U.K., victimhood and pandering to various identities. There's definitely a stigma about being right anyway it's why you have a shy Tory movement, it's the way culture has gone sadly. 

[Honey Honey]

Sadly?

Society has always had stigma. It is one of the pillars of social control when authoritarian law is absent. 

Jacob Rees Mogg just went on live tv and shamed gays and rape victims in the name of the prehistoric fringe of the Catholic congregation. You don't have to go far back in time to a moment when stigmatising gays through the church was dominant in the Catholic community to try and control homosexual tendencies.

 

[Inverted]

I don't see what's wrong with testing the worth of a principle by referring to real life examples.

If you want to hold that abortion is an absolute wrong, then you should be prepared to say explicitly that you would force an impregnated rape victim to see out the pregnancy. That's the nature of principles. They either hold out when inserted into practical situations, or they show themselves to be unsound or unduly cruel.

Or, in this case, both.

If he concedes in that instance that the woman has a right to control her own body, then the entire reasoning of his position collapses. If you truly believe that a zygote ranks over an adult female, then of course you will have no issue saying rape victims can't get abortions. That's not a question that will bother any serious catholic, so I don't see the concern for him. 

[Fairy In Boots]

6 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Sadly?

Society has always had stigma. It is one of the pillars of social control when authoritarian law is absent. 

Jacob Rees Mogg just went on live tv and shamed gays and rape victims in the name of the prehistoric fringe of the Catholic congregation. You don't have to go far back in time to a moment when stigmatising gays through the church was dominant in the Catholic community to try and control homosexual tendencies.

 

It's sad because there's no great discussion, you're just discounted completely in general  because you have a particular opinion, that bad for all politics whether left or right. Don't forget I like one or two of Corbyn's opinions, feckless idiot and couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery but on a fool discounts someone completely. 

For example Mogg is automatically discounted now for these two opinions in which he acknowledged that they're not popular and the law doesn't share the same opinion so he's going to have to suck it up and live with it. He's quite a smart bloke but because we disagree with 2% of his opinions we ignore the other 98%, I find that sad. Not just for Mogg but the topics in general. Abortion needs a moral discussion because it has a legitimate argument about when is acceptable to proceed with it and when it's not but the whole argument against is discredited because it's aligned with religious nuts and pro abortion is by extension a big pat on the back for gender equality. I'm pro birth control but as I said above I disagree with abortion, although I can appreciate in the rare occasion it could be warranted such as health implications or rape. 

I don't see how he shamed rape victims either as Panflute said it's so fucking rare it's a none event. It's just a strawman argument for the debate on abortion, which most pro life people who don't have millennia old imaginary friends would happily admit in some instances that it's warranted. I'm pro live pro assisted suicide also, go figure. 

Also it could be partisan politics but Mogg hasn't gone down anywhere near as badly as Farron did, Farron was ridiculed because he tried to twist out of it, Mogg stuck to his position. Most I've spoke to disagree with him but said at least he's honest and has an opinion. Places like this where the prevailing school of thought is leftist politics just distort the view of what the rest of the country is thinking, the mass importing of religious nuts will have an effect, Mogg will be unelectable to the lefty trendy types but that demographic is being massively outbred and are less likely to vote. I wouldn't discount Mogg just yet. 

[Inverted]

2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

It's sad because there's no great discussion, you're just discounted completely in general  because you have a particular opinion, that bad for all politics whether left or right. Don't forget I like one or two of Corbyn's opinions, feckless idiot and couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery but on a fool discounts someone completely. 

For example Mogg is automatically discounted now for these two opinions in which he acknowledged that they're not popular and the law doesn't share the same opinion so he's going to have to suck it up and live with it. He's quite a smart bloke but because we disagree with 2% of his opinions we ignore the other 98%, I find that sad. Not just for Mogg but the topics in general. Abortion needs a moral discussion because it has a legitimate argument about when is acceptable to proceed with it and when it's not but the whole argument against is discredited because it's aligned with religious nuts and pro abortion is by extension a big pat on the back for gender equality. I'm pro birth control but as I said above I disagree with abortion, although I can appreciate in the rare occasion it could be warranted such as health implications or rape. 

I don't see how he shamed rape victims either as Panflute said it's so fucking rare it's a none event. It's just a strawman argument for the debate on abortion, which most pro life people who don't have millennia old imaginary friends would happily admit in some instances that it's warranted. I'm pro live pro assisted suicide also, go figure. 

Also it could be partisan politics but Mogg hasn't gone down anywhere near as badly as Farron did, Farron was ridiculed because he tried to twist out of it, Mogg stuck to his position. Most I've spoke to disagree with him but said at least he's honest and has an opinion. Places like this where the prevailing school of thought is leftist politics just distort the view of what the rest of the country is thinking, the mass importing of religious nuts will have an effect, Mogg will be unelectable to the lefty trendy types but that demographic is being massively outbred and are less likely to vote. I wouldn't discount Mogg just yet. 

Really? I miss the good old days when fighting against aristocratic privilege was one of the fundamental and primary goals of working class politics. 

I must have blinked when it just became "trendy". 

[Honey Honey]

2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

It's sad because there's no great discussion, you're just discounted completely in general  because you have a particular opinion, that bad for all politics whether left or right. Don't forget I like one or two of Corbyn's opinions, feckless idiot and couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery but on a fool discounts someone completely. 

For example Mogg is automatically discounted now for these two opinions in which he acknowledged that they're not popular and the law doesn't share the same opinion so he's going to have to suck it up and live with it. He's quite a smart bloke but because we disagree with 2% of his opinions we ignore the other 98%, I find that sad. Not just for Mogg but the topics in general. Abortion needs a moral discussion because it has a legitimate argument about when is acceptable to proceed with it and when it's not but the whole argument against is discredited because it's aligned with religious nuts and pro abortion is by extension a big pat on the back for gender equality. I'm pro birth control but as I said above I disagree with abortion, although I can appreciate in the rare occasion it could be warranted such as health implications or rape. 

I don't see how he shamed rape victims either as Panflute said it's so fucking rare it's a none event. It's just a strawman argument for the debate on abortion, which most pro life people who don't have millennia old imaginary friends would happily admit in some instances that it's warranted. I'm pro live pro assisted suicide also, go figure. 

Also it could be partisan politics but Mogg hasn't gone down anywhere near as badly as Farron did, Farron was ridiculed because he tried to twist out of it, Mogg stuck to his position. Most I've spoke to disagree with him but said at least he's honest and has an opinion. Places like this where the prevailing school of thought is leftist politics just distort the view of what the rest of the country is thinking, the mass importing of religious nuts will have an effect, Mogg will be unelectable to the lefty trendy types but that demographic is being massively outbred and are less likely to vote. I wouldn't discount Mogg just yet. 

Where are all of his opinions being discounted? Nowhere. What is discounted is his fitness for executing power.

An opinion, any opinion, shows the nature of someones character. It allows you to make a best guess about how they would behave or what they would do in situations which haven't happened, other views we do not know about, other things that could be a threat to you. If you are on a date and the girl picks her nose and flicks it at the table next to you do you write that off because 99% of her on that date seemed alright? If picking your nose and flicking it is something that disgusts you then you would take that as a warning sign of what kind of person she could be like. Not only would you not want to be associated with someone flicking snot everywhere but you would be concerned about what other skeletons are in her closet. In politics we all eliminate the candidacy of those who have expressed something we judge to be indicative of someone we can't trust. Even if that is is wearing sandals, if that's the kind of person you have come to deem a threat directly or through suspicion then you sound the alarm. That is how we all protect ourself based on our own knowledge. There is no one side doing this, this is everyone, this is life. The libertarian philosophical infestation on the right has mutated into a rhetoric that free speech is under attack at every angle LOL. This is just life and always has been.

Everyone has alarms. So a gay hating condom burning abortionist is not one for you. It is for some people. Remember when right wing people were strong enough to just get over it? 

[Fairy In Boots]

Didn't want to start a thread but the labour party conference is going well anti Semitic leaflets & bullying female journalist's seems about par

[RandoEFC+]

6 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Didn't want to start a thread but the labour party conference is going well anti Semitic leaflets & bullying female journalist's seems about par

This seems like a totally balanced summary of what the Labour conference is about.

Not that I'm having a pop, after all nobody can have any political views on the internet these days without going down the blatant points scoring route.

Beyond stuff that actually goes through parliament, I frankly can't bring myself to care much what any of them have to say until there's another election. White noise.