Racism in Football

[Stan]

 

 

 

[Scouse_Mouse]

12 hours ago, ToonFan said:

You racistly abuse a player on social media, you get a lifetime football ban. 

I'll bet that the vast majority of these sad losers who post racial abuse on social media wouldn't know the inside of a football stadium from a hole in the ground.

Like any other racist (football related or not) they would never say the things in person that they post anonymously one social media.

 

[Scouse_Mouse]

28 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Some of them would, I've been unfortunate enough to witness it. 

In all honesty I haven't seen one of those cretins mouthing it off at a match in a long time. It seems to be more of a case of cowardly pricks pecking away in anonymity on their 'puter.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Scouse_Mouse

[Smiley Culture]

Rashford the latest target. The Merry-go-round continues. 

[Stan]

7 hours ago, Scouse_Mouse said:

I'll bet that the vast majority of these sad losers who post racial abuse on social media wouldn't know the inside of a football stadium from a hole in the ground.

Like any other racist (football related or not) they would never say the things in person that they post anonymously one social media.

 

 

7 hours ago, ToonFan said:

Some of them would, I've been unfortunate enough to witness it. 

Yeah I've heard it before (albeit not at a football ground). 

Then they say their defence is 'it was only banter', 'I have loads of black/Asian mates', 'what happened to free speech?!' 

[Carnivore Chris]

7 hours ago, Stan said:

 

Yeah I've heard it before (albeit not at a football ground). 

Then they say their defence is 'it was only banter', 'I have loads of black/Asian mates', 'what happened to free speech?!' 

A bit of banter would be 2 mates jokingly stereotyping each other between themselves in a harmless manner.

Going around calling people the n word or abusing others is out right racism, ignorance and can never be labelled as just "banter", it's utterly embarrassing. What makes most of these clowns even worse is that they hide on twitter with some fake persona and a picture of a cartoon character, hiding their true identity. They need exposing. They are an embarrassment to this country.

And there was me thinking this country had moved forward and progressed. Far from it it seems.

Expose them and then film their reaction when a group of lads turn up at their door.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Carnivore Chris

[Mel81x+]

I think the easiest thing to do is the following but of course it will never happen.

If a social media site/app is alerted to a racist tweet they ban the MAC address of the device sending the tweet until further review. This does two very important things.

1. You can create as many new IDs as you want but hey guess what you cant really change your MAC (i mean you can but are you really going to jump hoops for it)

2. Tag the user and open the profile for examination by an actual investigative agency and if the user wants access to the platform again they have to submit a form to their local police department asking the ban to be revoked (privately of course).

I guarantee that if this ever comes to fruition people will leave their racism at the door very fast. The problem is that this kind of interaction generates a lot of traffic and these companies aren't going to do anything about it as long as they see their numbers go up. 

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Mel81x said:

I think the easiest thing to do is the following but of course it will never happen.

If a social media site/app is alerted to a racist tweet they ban the MAC address of the device sending the tweet until further review. This does two very important things.

1. You can create as many new IDs as you want but hey guess what you cant really change your MAC (i mean you can but are you really going to jump hoops for it)

2. Tag the user and open the profile for examination by an actual investigative agency and if the user wants access to the platform again they have to submit a form to their local police department asking the ban to be revoked (privately of course).

I guarantee that if this ever comes to fruition people will leave their racism at the door very fast. The problem is that this kind of interaction generates a lot of traffic and these companies aren't going to do anything about it as long as they see their numbers go up. 

This in particular is the worrying thing. It's like newspapers and their horrible front pages - if it gets the clicks (online) and the attention, all morals go out the window. They get their reputation, people talking, attention, revenue and that's all that matters.

 

[Mel81x+]

47 minutes ago, Stan said:

This in particular is the worrying thing. It's like newspapers and their horrible front pages - if it gets the clicks (online) and the attention, all morals go out the window. They get their reputation, people talking, attention, revenue and that's all that matters.

 

Its how they've operated for years now and they arent changing for anyone. The revenues have always been the number one point everything else is just a nice-to-have.

[Mel81x+]

11 minutes ago, ToonFan said:

Whilst you can't change your mac address it's more than possible to onion layer it so that it's effectively hidden the same way you can do with an IP address which makes this about as effective as an IP ban (extremely ineffective).

 

If they tried to bring this in downloads of suitable software would go through the roof. . 

Well the only thing there is that they'd tie your account to your MAC (which is the most important part of the entire locking and banning process) so you get banned and its tied until its unlocked. Effectively meaning that if you are onion-layering it and its all automatic there's no real way to remove the ban without actually clearing the offense first. Of course this wont stop people from creating multiple accounts which then goes full circle back to social media apps finding smarter ways of dealing with this. I mean they have AI that reads content and suggests things to us you'd imagine it wouldn't be very hard to remove offensive content from an app in a similar fashion. But ... it hurts business so why do it at all and push the onus back on the users/community. 

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, ToonFan said:

As you say in the second paragraph, the thing your missing is the ease with which you can make secondary accounts on pretty much any social media platform. I'm not missing anything - there's no point locking people out of a solitary account or a solitary IP/mac address - but we don't have reliable technology do that - this is why the big wigs demand phone numbers off you now as they've tried everything else - but you can spoof a phone number on the internet as well so it's not fool-proof but much more secure. 

 

If i remember rightly this was tried a while back but because both sides often use the same words and phrases in different context it screws it. 

I think that they tried phone numbers but data privacy laws also came around and created holes that made it optional as well if I remember right. as you said it doesn't stop the ones who really want to continue doing what they are doing but it does deters a population that doesn't want the hassle. We have the tech to do this we just need the social media platforms to start accepting responsibility and living in a world of no repercussions. 

As for the AI problem, the bigger issue isn't the failure but actually allowing the AI to learn and grow in the system. Recognizing any kind of intent is hard on day one or in some cases even year one but giving it time is never a bad thing. GPT was like a child with no context when it first came out but they let it stick around and learn. Now its able to mimic intent and that's scary from a writing perspective but its even more impressive that it was able to learn what it was doing wrong and rectify it long-term. Most times we expect tech to come out of a box and work as it should with very minimal failure and that's what a lot of these ventures suffer from with their user populations. I can't remember it off the top of my head but there is a successful watchdog AI out there in the wild that's able to auto-flag content with a higher accuracy rate but if I also remember right its purely experimental and wasn't accepted by big tech because they felt it would deter the natural flow of content and how users interacted with it which I think is just them looking out for their profit margins. 

[Smiley Culture]

The young lad sent-off for Southampton, the latest target, I see. 

[DeadLinesman]

2 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

The young lad sent-off for Southampton, the latest target, I see. 

By Southampton or United ‘fans’? Genuine question.

[Smiley Culture]

Just now, DeadLinesman said:

By Southampton or United ‘fans’? Genuine question.

No idea. The BBC article doesn’t suggest who it come from. 

[Stan]

11 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

By Southampton or United ‘fans’? Genuine question.

Ryan Giggs.

[DeadLinesman]

15 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

No idea. The BBC article doesn’t suggest who it come from. 

Seems Southampton said they are working to identify fans and ban the supporters, which suggests it’s their fans. But who knows with online anonymity.

[Azeem]

No expert but I'm pretty sure regulating this sort of stuff on social media isn't that difficult. The will simply isn't there

[Smiley Culture]

Yet more racism this weekend, it seems. I’ve seen the statements, we’ll see the condemnation and we’ll brush it under the carpet and forget it for a few days, expecting the victims to get back out there in a few days to play again and put themselves at risk of more abuse. Tiresome now. 

[Dave]

On 04/02/2021 at 16:21, McAzeem said:

No expert but I'm pretty sure regulating this sort of stuff on social media isn't that difficult. The will simply isn't there

They're more than quick enough to delete accounts for retweeting an Ivan Toney goal that unknowingly is linked to copyright infringement though.

If Twitter or any other platform cared, they would force people to upload identification upon registering so accounts can be easily associated/traced. Its not that difficult.

[Danny]

The thing is I don’t think there’s “more” racism occurring I just think players feel empowered to report it now, and clubs are probably doing the same thing too.

Social media sites do very little to prevent it and so essentially encourage it as there is a very easy way to deal with this.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Danny said:

The thing is I don’t think there’s “more” racism occurring I just think players feel empowered to report it now, and clubs are probably doing the same thing too.

Social media sites do very little to prevent it and so essentially encourage it as there is a very easy way to deal with this.

I think that is partly true. However I think since trump got in power it has got worse. And also Brexit has made it worse in Britain as well. Still not as bad as it was in the 90s and before though I'm sure. 

[Azeem]

38 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I think that is partly true. However I think since trump got in power it has got worse. And also Brexit has made it worse in Britain as well. Still not as bad as it was in the 90s and before though I'm sure. 

This, the rise of right wing authoritarians around many parts of the world has given these people to come out of their gutters and become vocal in the mainstream. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, McAzeem said:

This, the rise of right wing authoritarians around many parts of the world has given these people to come out of their gutters and become vocal in the mainstream. 

Maybe though certain things needed to happen. Maybe someone like trump needed to get into power for people to see it doesn't work. Although he still has a lot of support there were many life long Republicans who voted Democrat. Maybe the world needs to see it fail

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I think that is partly true. However I think since trump got in power it has got worse. And also Brexit has made it worse in Britain as well. Still not as bad as it was in the 90s and before though I'm sure. 

I'm not sure if Trump & the racist nationalist views from Brexit are necessarily the cause of the increase of more racism and bigotry on the internet, or if they're just another symptom of the problem of social media sort of normalising bigotry and racism and instead of framing it as something wrong, framing it as a "political opinion" - although I do think they are very dangerous because people develop a large crowd of people that share horrificly backward views about groups of other people.

It's not hard to see why idiotic arseholes are more racist on social media than they are outwardly racist in real life - they're behind a screen, nowhere near the target of the abuse, with infinite more anonymity if they want it. I've seen racism in real life with my own two eyes... but I see it all the fucking time on the internet. So it's undoubtedly more common online.

And social media has just been an effective tool at radicalising a lot of people to views that I wouldn't think would be common. And race and racism is an easy way to get people to be radicalised. And a lot of hate groups that spread racism have used the same tactics people like Islamic extremists have used to radicalise and recruit terrorists.

For a while, I've thought there needs to be more done to regulate social media. I don't necessarily trust these companies to self-regulate, at the end of the day they're companies and companies are more concerned about making money for shareholders than doing what is right or what is ethical.

It's hard to propose what the fuck should actually be done about social media though... because I think there's a decent amount of free speech concerns and concerns about shit like "being the thought police" and regulating actual legitimate political opinions under the guise of "preventing bigotry and racism." For instance, with politicians and world leaders... I think Merkel is right - it is a little bit concerning. It's a private company silencing a politician. On the other hand, Trump incited violence on twitter and Khamenei made death threats on twitter - they deserved to get banned.

I think the companies need to be held a bit more accountable for when clear breaches of their Terms of Service haven't been quickly and effectively policed and it leads to shit like racial abuse or anything else illegal.

[Guest]

@Dr. Gonzo I think the racism was there but Brexit and trump has made it more acceptable. That  was kind of what I meant on my second post but worded it wrong