The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Redcanuck]

53 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Aren’t there over 100 hostages though? What about the rest of them?

203 have been confirmed by Israel.   Happy to see those two released but you wonder about the rest and why these two and not somebody else were released. 

[Stan]

 

 

[MUFC]

 

[Stan]

IDF bomb West Bank and 'accidentally' hit an Egyptian position. 

Something they 'regret'. Like fuck they do. 

Finally someone on Sky News called Sunak, Biden and Co out for Israel's strategy and relying on the excuse of 'self-defence'. 

Sorry, but bombing hospitals, places of religion, schools and ethnically cleansing an area is not 'self defence'. 

[Redcanuck]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

IDF bomb West Bank and 'accidentally' hit an Egyptian position. 

Something they 'regret'. Like fuck they do. 

Finally someone on Sky News called Sunak, Biden and Co out for Israel's strategy and relying on the excuse of 'self-defence'. 

Sorry, but bombing hospitals, places of religion, schools and ethnically cleansing an area is not 'self defence'. 

The underground facilities that Hamas maintains in Gaza, are often placed under hospitals, schools, and mosques..  Under International law, “dual use” of civilian facilities makes them legitimate targets.

[Stan]

Israel bombs Rafah, where they told people to go last week to 'leave'. 

Sunak, Biden, Blinken all complicit in allowing Israel to get away with this. 

[MUFC]

10 minutes ago, Stan said:

Israel bombs Rafah, where they told people to go last week to 'leave'. 

Sunak, Biden, Blinken all complicit in allowing Israel to get away with this. 

Israel said it's going on for a few months. So it's going to be an extended genocide.

[MUFC]

 

[Stan]

Two hostages released from under Hamas control, great to hear and read about but more need to be released.

Have been reading details of the press conference she gave. It's relieving to her of hear freedom, especially at such an elderly age, but it's very perplexing that it sounds like she was treated humanely once captured (barring being beaten with sticks, which is confusing as later on it's stated that the captors 'believe in the Quran so we won't hurt you'). 

I don't know what to make of it. You'd like to think the same is happening for all the other hostages. She even goes on to say that her feminine hygiene needs were also tended to by female captors. 

It also begs the question as to why only 4 have been released by Hamas, and why those 4? And what will it take for the other scores of hostages to also be released...

[Redcanuck]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

Two hostages released from under Hamas control, great to hear and read about but more need to be released.

Have been reading details of the press conference she gave. It's relieving to her of hear freedom, especially at such an elderly age, but it's very perplexing that it sounds like she was treated humanely once captured (barring being beaten with sticks, which is confusing as later on it's stated that the captors 'believe in the Quran so we won't hurt you'). 

I don't know what to make of it. You'd like to think the same is happening for all the other hostages. She even goes on to say that her feminine hygiene needs were also tended to by female captors. 

It also begs the question as to why only 4 have been released by Hamas, and why those 4? And what will it take for the other scores of hostages to also be released...

I think the hostages who have been released have concern for the hostages who are still being held. You are not going to hear the truth of how the released ones have been treated until all hostages are released.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, Stan said:

Two hostages released from under Hamas control, great to hear and read about but more need to be released.

Have been reading details of the press conference she gave. It's relieving to her of hear freedom, especially at such an elderly age, but it's very perplexing that it sounds like she was treated humanely once captured (barring being beaten with sticks, which is confusing as later on it's stated that the captors 'believe in the Quran so we won't hurt you'). 

I don't know what to make of it. You'd like to think the same is happening for all the other hostages. She even goes on to say that her feminine hygiene needs were also tended to by female captors. 

It also begs the question as to why only 4 have been released by Hamas, and why those 4? And what will it take for the other scores of hostages to also be released...

One of the old women who they released yesterday still has her husband left behind. I think each hostage that's been released still has at least one family member still in captivity. I wouldn't be surprised if they're treading lightly with their public statements so as to not aggravate those who are still holding their loved ones. And even in treading pretty lightly, she did say that she has "gone through hell" in the ordeal.

They're clearly holding onto hostages for leverage of some sort. Either as a threat to their safety when Israel begins the ground invasion or to try to use them as a chip to negotiate a ceasefire. I think they've weirdly (and badly) miscalculated how Israel would react to this attack - I think they're acting in a way that... tbh I would really expect Israel to react. They've never really been proportionate before, so I'm not really sure what Hamas was expecting. But I also think the status quo is out the window now - Israel's got little appetite for a ceasefire at the moment. I'm not quite sure why Hamas would expect Israel to treat this attack like the previous rocket launches or the Hezbollah kidnapping of IDF soldiers. I don't think Israel's going to stop until Hamas no longer has any influence.

It's shit because Gaza will pay a heavy price. Israel's going to keep this bombing campaign going up until they go in, and they've said they're delaying when they go in. It's also shit for the hostages, who are hoping to not only survive captivity... but also survive the constant bombardment.

The latest thing I've seen re: the IDF trying to get hostages back is they've been dropping leaflets over Gaza promising a cash reward to those who bring information about the whereabouts of hostages. I'm not sure how much good a cash reward would be in Gaza, but if Israel is able to get them out of Gaza and give them the money... that's probably quite a tempting deal for the Palestinians there. Although I'm sure Hamas would go after anyone they find cooperating with Israel.

Saw this shocking bit of news today regarding a Hamas fugitive living in London now: https://www.jpost.com/international/islamic-terrorism/article-769592 - pretty disgraceful.

[Redcanuck]

I saw that the Hamass political operative has been living in England for a decade.  Surprised Mossad has taken him out, maybe and hopefully that it is know where he lives they will.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Redcanuck said:

I saw that the Hamass political operative has been living in England for a decade.  Surprised Mossad has taken him out, maybe and hopefully that it is know where he lives they will.

I don't live in the UK anymore, but honestly I prefer if governments don't use my homeland as a killing ground. It wasn't alright when the Russian did it, it's not going to be alright if anyone else does it.

The UK has Hamas on their terror list, they know where he lives now. It's our government's job to arrest him, if that means turning him over to Israel after his arrest... fine. But Mossad shouldn't be doing any assassinations in the UK unless they're doing them in conjunction with our government.

[Redcanuck]

30 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't live in the UK anymore, but honestly I prefer if governments don't use my homeland as a killing ground. It wasn't alright when the Russian did it, it's not going to be alright if anyone else does it.

The UK has Hamas on their terror list, they know where he lives now. It's our government's job to arrest him, if that means turning him over to Israel after his arrest... fine. But Mossad shouldn't be doing any assassinations in the UK unless they're doing them in conjunction with our government.

I just like cutting out the middleman.  

[Stan]

UK government should be ashamed of itself. 

Actively and willingly on the wrong side of history here. 

 

[Redcanuck]

17 minutes ago, Stan said:

UK government should be ashamed of itself. 

Actively and willingly on the wrong side of history here. 

 

Ashamed they abstained, should have voted against. 

[Tommy]

11 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Ashamed they abstained, should have voted against. 

Vote against protecting innocent civilians? What?

[Stan]

15 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Ashamed they abstained, should have voted against. 

Are you sure? 

What's wrong with protecting civilians in Gaza? 

[Redcanuck]

Canada and a number of of European countries including Germany and Italy voted against because tbey stand with Israel.   The UK is trying to have it both ways. The resolution is just window dressing, the UN are trying to hide their antisemitism among caring for civilians just like Hamas hides their weapons among hospitals, schools and mosques as well as hopefully puting pressure on Israel to agree to a ceasefire .

These so called civilians are the same people who cheer every time a rocket is fired into Israel,  the same people who chant from the river to the sea which means the end of Israel, the same people who cheer every Israeli death and the same people who willingly raise their children to be martyrs . No there's no sympathy here.

The resolution is also one sided, a Canadian ammendment to also condemn the actions of Hamas failed to pass, showing for most countries at the UN this was just another opportunity to critize Israel,  none of them care about the civilians in Gaza, this is their antisemitism showing plain and simple.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Redcanuck

[MUFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67241362

[6666]

12 hours ago, Redcanuck said:

Canada and a number of of European countries including Germany and Italy voted against because tbey stand with Israel.   The UK is trying to have it both ways. The resolution is just window dressing, the UN are trying to hide their antisemitism among caring for civilians just like Hamas hides their weapons among hospitals, schools and mosques as well as hopefully puting pressure on Israel to agree to a ceasefire .

These so called civilians are the same people who cheer every time a rocket is fired into Israel,  the same people who chant from the river to the sea which means the end of Israel, the same people who cheer every Israeli death and the same people who willingly raise their children to be martyrs . No there's no sympathy here.

The resolution is also one sided, a Canadian ammendment to also condemn the actions of Hamas failed to pass, showing for most countries at the UN this was just another opportunity to critize Israel,  none of them care about the civilians in Gaza, this is their antisemitism showing plain and simple.

Ah, you're one of those. Defend Israel's psychotic behaviour that has been going on for a long time and call anyone criticising it "antisemitic".

[Danny]

24 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Ah, you're one of those. Defend Israel's psychotic behaviour that has been going on for a long time and call anyone criticising it "antisemitic".

The irony in their claims of anti-semitism is that they are extremely Islamophobic in nature too, their arguments link Palestinians to ISIS and whoever else. 

There is a complicated history between Israel, Palestine and other nations in the region. But what cannot be denied, what is factual, is that Palestinians have routinely had their land stolen from them, by Israel and by Britain. To invoke suggestions of anti-semitism, comparisons to the holocaust to remove the human rights of 2 million Palestinians in Gaza, close to half of that being children. To conflate “from the river to the sea” as anything other than freedom for people who’ve been stolen from by an oppressive force. Maniacs.

Not a Jewish issue, in fact Jewish people worldwide are rallying against them, inside Israel too.

[Stan]

I just cannot fathom how anyone can not agree to a ceasefire to stop civilians being killed.

Obscene.

[MUFC]

Lets not forget the Palestinian Christians who have also been victims of years of genocide by Israel.

[Harry]

9 hours ago, Stan said:

I just cannot fathom how anyone can not agree to a ceasefire to stop civilians being killed.

Obscene.

The US army invaded Mosul and Fallujah to break up Al Qaeda and ISIS and in both cases there were significant civilian casualties. In a world of grey where all options are terrible in some way there are sometimes needs for terrible things to happen.

I'm not a supporter of Israel. In particular I hate the way the label of "aNtI sEmitisM" is abused to try to coerce people into unconditional support. but it's worth remembering the government of the land that's about to be invaded have kidnapped 200 Israelis and are holding them hostage and proposing to execute them.