Craig Ramage: “Black lads need pulling down a peg”

[Danny]

More of that systemic racial bias that supposedly doesn’t exist in the English game  This time via the BBC, as if they needed any more problems after the recent “confusion” over not being able to correctly name black MPs and of course the infamous Lebron James memorial for Kobe Bryant.

Black youngsters referred to and viewed as “BBQ’s”, black pros needing pulled down a peg or two (a classic trope for your vintage racist) and of course the complete lack opportunities for black players to move into coaching and managerial roles. Ryan Conway of The Athletic had it spot on when commenting on this on Twitter, often for any industry black people need to work twice as hard for half the chances. Unfortunately people will choose not to learn from these acts of abuse that are made public and carrying on digging the likes of Sol Campbell out to double down on the refusal to acknowledge that there is a wider problem at hand

 

 

[DeadLinesman]

How the fuck did he think “ah, I’ll just casually drop this in and see if anyone minds” 

[Danny]

3 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

How the fuck did he think “ah, I’ll just casually drop this in and see if anyone minds” 

Think the BBC actually edited it out afterwards with no mention of it's initial broadcast...which is mental

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said:

How the fuck did he think “ah, I’ll just casually drop this in and see if anyone minds” 

He probably wouldn't have dared a few years ago but people who actually think things like this have been convinced by recent political developments in the UK that there might actually be a place for this sort of thinking out there again, and now have the opportunity to take a few risks with what they say because there are enough braindead gammons in this country that are emboldened enough to try and fight their corner by making this out as "free speech" rather than "racism".

[Inverted]

He knew the BBC would do the utmost to protect him and try and save his arse. Vile, rotting husk of an instution, riddled with morons, racists and pederasts from top to bottom. 

Just pure bad luck for him that some people saved the original audio before the BBC got a chance to sanitise it. 

[Spike]

I don't know this Mr. Ramage character but is he important enough, or influential enough to be representative of systemic racism? I thought 'systemic racism' is defined as rules, laws, legislation, et al., that create an bias for or against certain groups. For instance if there a tax rate for being Hindi but not for being a Sikh? Or pork-barelling for votes, or even gerrymandering. 

that If anything, I'd claim that BBC's attempt to hide the incident if more complicit with the issue, even if they dont' condone the statement; it isn't very good public-relations to perform a cover-up instead of adressing it. A publisher needs to take responsibility for anyone associated with their company. whether employed directly or not. An example of indirect 'systemic racism'.

Also what does Sol Campbell have to do with this?

[Spike]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

He probably wouldn't have dared a few years ago but people who actually think things like this have been convinced by recent political developments in the UK that there might actually be a place for this sort of thinking out there again, and now have the opportunity to take a few risks with what they say because there are enough braindead gammons in this country that are emboldened enough to try and fight their corner by making this out as "free speech" rather than "racism".

Well, it is both free-speech and racism. He can say it, but everyone else also has the free-speech to criticise him; which is what we are doing right now. People have every right to be bigots which is a bizzarre statement really, but people can't really be imprisoned for an idea without action (we cannot be imprisoned for a thought-crime, right?). You can't force an idea of equality or acceptance onto someone. It is something people have to understand for themselves, and any sort of bias or hatred has to be indicative of some underlying issue in a person's ethos. You can't just present evidence to a racist on why being racist is wrong, because most of them need to untangle a whole web of internal justifications, and unlearn a lifetime of reinforced ideas, stereotypes, and personal experiences. 

Whether or not this bloke is punished and lectured probably won't change his beliefs. It takes some introspection for someone to ask themselves 'maybe I am a racist?', or 'maybe I shouldn't feel this way about people?'. He probably just tells himself what he said wasn't racist at all, and that he is the victim of all this.

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

I don't know this Mr. Ramage character but is he important enough, or influential enough to be representative of systemic racism? I thought 'systemic racism' is defined as rules, laws, legislation, et al., that create an bias for or against certain groups. For instance if there a tax rate for being Hindi but not for being a Sikh? Or pork-barelling for votes, or even gerrymandering. 

that If anything, I'd claim that BBC's attempt to hide the incident if more complicit with the issue, even if they dont' condone the statement; it isn't very good public-relations to perform a cover-up instead of adressing it. A publisher needs to take responsibility for anyone associated with their company. whether employed directly or not. An example of indirect 'systemic racism'.

Also what does Sol Campbell have to do with this?

He as in individual is not indicative of it, however the trope he used has been used to put down black footballers for decades now. That term comes out of the playbook that helped keep black players out of the game for as long as they were. They’re flashy, lazy, fancy dans who need bringing back down to earth etc etc.

Systemic is not specific to rules or law though it definitely is and has been a large part of it, not all systemic racism is based upon law but who those at the top of the system want to let in. In this instance the trope he has used has been used to systemically oppress black players. Not only that but he referenced all black players at Derby needing to be pulled down a peg, he was encouraging systemic racism towards them from their own club.

The Sol Campbell mention is due to people not taking the lack of pathways for black players to become coaches seriously, he has been a loud and consistent advocate against racism in football and society and so rather than accept that there is a problem he is used as a target to say “oh he’s just playing the race card, he’s actually shit”. Rather than accept the wider problem people stick their heads in the sand and take the piss out of Sol Campbell instead. It’s sad really. I would put a lot of money on there being a number of football clubs who’ve never wanted to go near him as a coach because of that ignorant viewpoint and their fear of being branded racist.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

He as in individual is not indicative of it, however the trope he used has been used to put down black footballers for decades now. That term comes out of the playbook that helped keep black players out of the game for as long as they were. They’re flashy, lazy, fancy dans who need bringing back down to earth etc etc.

Systemic is not specific to rules or law though it definitely is and has been a large part of it, not all systemic racism is based upon law but who those at the top of the system want to let in. In this instance the trope he has used has been used to systemically oppress black players. Not only that but he referenced all black players at Derby needing to be pulled down a peg, he was encouraging systemic racism towards them from their own club.

The Sol Campbell mention is due to people not taking the lack of pathways for black players to become coaches seriously, he has been a loud and consistent advocate against racism in football and society and so rather than accept that there is a problem he is used as a target to say “oh he’s just playing the race card, he’s actually shit”. Rather than accept the wider problem people stick their heads in the sand and take the piss out of Sol Campbell instead. It’s sad really. I would put a lot of money on there being a number of football clubs who’ve never wanted to go near him as a coach because of that ignorant viewpoint and their fear of being branded racist.

Fair enough, I don't know top from the  bottom of the reality for British race relations.

[Dan+]

Sol Campbell doesn't really help himself though. He's quite an odd character in general.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 16/02/2020 at 15:20, Danny said:

He as in individual is not indicative of it, however the trope he used has been used to put down black footballers for decades now. That term comes out of the playbook that helped keep black players out of the game for as long as they were. They’re flashy, lazy, fancy dans who need bringing back down to earth etc etc.

Systemic is not specific to rules or law though it definitely is and has been a large part of it, not all systemic racism is based upon law but who those at the top of the system want to let in. In this instance the trope he has used has been used to systemically oppress black players. Not only that but he referenced all black players at Derby needing to be pulled down a peg, he was encouraging systemic racism towards them from their own club.

Yeah this is why I think what he's said is so outrageous - and you see that kind of racism perpetuated all the time with young black English footballers with our tabloid press. So I think what Ramage's been sacked here for really is being so overt with his racism. Because all he's really done is a more overtly racist version of what the sun & the Daily Mail & others did with Sterling during the last World Cup.

Why even mention race here, if you're not a racist? It's not racist to say you think some young players are acting too big for their boots and need to be pulled down a peg - and it's a fair comment at some clubs where there are young players that think just because they've made the first team they're nailed on to be the next young super star. It's not a fair comment when you single out particular young players you think need to be pulled down a peg and singling them out for their race. That just comes off as racist, because you've got players singled out for their race.

[The Artful Dodger]

The lad made the mistake of actually being overtly racist, the same sort of attitudes are displayed by people like Souness towards Pogba etc but they're clever enough to not be so obvious. It's quite clear a lot of people do not like confident, unapologetic, successful black people.

[Storts]

1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said:

The lad made the mistake of actually being overtly racist, the same sort of attitudes are displayed by people like Souness towards Pogba etc but they're clever enough to not be so obvious. It's quite clear a lot of people do not like confident, unapologetic, successful black people.

Completely agree with you - great post 

[RandoEFC+]

2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

The lad made the mistake of actually being overtly racist, the same sort of attitudes are displayed by people like Souness towards Pogba etc but they're clever enough to not be so obvious. It's quite clear a lot of people do not like confident, unapologetic, successful black people.

 

12 minutes ago, Storts said:

Completely agree with you - great post 

Likewise

[Michael]

On 16/02/2020 at 21:19, Inverted said:

He knew the BBC would do the utmost to protect him and try and save his arse. Vile, rotting husk of an instution, riddled with morons, racists and pederasts from top to bottom. 

Just pure bad luck for him that some people saved the original audio before the BBC got a chance to sanitise it. 

I can't remember whether it was the BBC or ITV, but when Cameroon international Marc-Vivien Foe tragically collapsed during a Confederations Cup match against Colombia and eventually died, the BBC or ITV put a picture up of Jermain Defoe instead during their news bulletin. Their names may sound slightly similar, but that is an absolute pathetic mistake to have made. One can only imagine what kind of idiot actually made that kind of mistake and gave the go ahead to put that picture up.