Chelsea Discussion

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, The Liquidator said:

Well after that performance, anybody think we will finish top 4?

Which site was this post copy and pasted from?

[The Liquidator]

 Some very interesting responses to last nights game and much thanks to @SirBalon for his football intelligent posts.

It’s best I again state I did not want Sarri as our manager. I have seen the holes in his team since before the start of the season and have been surprised by our much better than average start. I find it quite shocking it took these so called professional managers to work out how to set up against Sarri’s team, but we can feel certain everyone knows what to do from now on.

What concerns me the most is, now everyone knows the secret, our manager is, up to now, unable to change his way of play. Now I am not saying the move of Kante to the position he is best at will answer all our problems, but for me, a game last night where it seems most of the top sides started a 2nd eleven, it would have been prudent to have a bit of insurance in the middle of the pitch, especially when the team is licking its wounds from the Spurs embarrassment. Evidence is, Not for our manager, who yet again proved the one trick pony tag he has around his neck.

Now I fully understand when introducing a new style of play to a club takes time and plenty of patience. If we are to have those attributes as fans, then a manager should baby step the team into being able to carry out his ideology. I have stated here and elsewhere since before the season started, if the manager does not have the right players for his way of play, then work up to that point by being more solid till we have signed the players he desires.

The manager has been told his remit is to qualify for Champions league. He is on record in saying that. While my over night question may have been bourn by the terrible performance and frustration of us not being able to kill off a well below average Wolves side, I believe the question is a fair one, especially if you are like me watch every Chelsea game over a season.

I openly ask all, if you have been sussed as a team, do you continue to play how your opposition know how to play against you, or do you tweak it some?

Our @Bluewolf states in one of his posts this is just a rough patch we are going through and sure Sarri is already thinking about players he wants in to build. Hey I can understand that, but rather than continue to play poorly with the players he has now, cant he tweak it some till those blokes turn up over the next 2 windows? @Bluewolf  is more disappointed in the players over the manager. Until this manager shows he can change the team for the better he will be nothing more than a lemming in my mind, continuing with what has been sussed and allowing teams to exploit our weaknesses. While I respect @Bluewolf opinion and hope he is right, this manager has to earn my faith in his ability to manage more than the one way, and this would include a final decision on Morata as @Bluewolf highlighted.

I hope my old mate @Redcanuck is right on just the one team to beat. I happen to think at this moment in the season we are the weakest of those clubs fighting for 2nd – 4th. With the chance of being stuffed out of sight by the best team this coming weekend. It could be worse mate, we could be managed by a bloke who never ever wanted to end up our manager! Still we may well take a leaf out of the Hotel bound manager n qualify through the back Europa door.

In response to cheeky @JOSHBRFC (Hope you are well mate) no its not meltdown. For me its frustration of what I have been saying since before the season coming to fruition. @True Blue is 100% correct, we praise the good performances of the start of the season. We, unlike many other clubs fans, point out when things are not so good with the same degree of expression. I agree with @True Blue I don’t want to see the manager moved on, he is not my choice, but he has to have a chance to prove himself. It’s just for now in my eyes, he isn’t proving he has the situation under the control we would like or the ability to solve the answers other managers have for him.

Lets just say his Honeymoon period is well and truly over.

[True Blue]

Wasn't online since the game.

I was shocked how the defense worked their arse off this game (apart from Alonso) . Luiz, Rudi and Azpi were excellent all game long, we were shaky in the opening 15 minutes but then gained some kind of control. After we scored the second half was very comfortable with us limiting City to no clear chances. Overall Sarri set us up for this game perfectly, and the players did what they have been told to. Incredible that we didn't concede against the best team in the league.

Hope Happy Blue is okay after the best team in the World was schooled against a Chelsea in development 

[The Liquidator]

I was at the game and have kinda enjoyed two re-runs of the BT coverage. Have to say the recordings have been illuminating. After a performance at Wolverhampton where we something between Sarri-ball and Avb-ball, I along with most other Chelsea fans feared the worst.

Turns out, It’s a wonderful result against a much better side than ourselves, a team who had both their best 2 players missing and possibly their 3rd in Mendy. Our manager decided to go with our best player through the middle. Sacrificing our best player? Id say yes and the player himself did not look over enthusiastic with his non committal to leading questions after the game on the managers decision to play him as a non 9. My first impression looking down from my seat was it was going to be the battle of the Didi men. Never has a pitch looked to need an injection of power in midfield or upfront, for both teams.

After a few weeks of his system not working, Sarri either had to do something different or find his life far more difficult after his honeymoon. What he decided on was playing in a false 9 from the start with a full pitch press without the ball. Within 20 minutes the manager told the players to stop the press (McManaman confirmed this in the 13th min on BT) as City were running around us at will. Willian and Pedro, commended for the way they attempted to support both our full backs when called off by the manager from pressing, suddenly had me realizing he has now taken us back to Conte away at City last season. This question was asked of the Chelsea TV pundits who fumbled through their answers not wanting to upset him. What we can safely say, from calling off the press till, our, against play opening goal, we were sure not playing Sarriball.

That might sound alarmist. Far from it. It’s actually the first we have seen of a plan B from this manager. Stumbled on, rather than a cunning plan. Now obviously we have to thank City for this forced adaption as I don’t think the manager would have done this if his opening gambit hadn’t been sussed n dominated. Luiz hoof up the field (far more of a threat than any of Jorginho’s thousands of passes of late) and Willian catching out the sleeping defender were the two major factors in the goal. Hazards ball across the box looked to be very lucky as he didn’t look and Kante passing the ball into the net still almost managed to hit the bar. As the commentator said, it was completely against the run of play. It came at the best time for us, bang on half time. Our celebration in our section resulted in a guy taking a right hander worthy of the Fury fight, who’s Nose then ran of Blood way into the 2nd half. Turns out the right hand belonged to his own Son Haha. He was fine by the end of the game and obviously in good heart.

It has to be said we started the 2nd half looking far more confident, moving the ball quicker than any other time in the game. City regained more possession of the ball, only for Luiz to add a 2nd goal. We ran the clock out fairly well and even survived our young keeper kicking the ball directly to City late in the game. I have to say it was fantastic to have both Barkley and Reuben Loftus-Cheek on the pitch at the end of the game. The latter was little help when City had the ball, but as ever, he looked dangerous when we had it. A future of those two with Kante in the middle? I wont hold my breath.

So what do we make of the game? Counter-attacking football, allowing the opposition to dominate possession of the ball and a long ball approach to wide area’s which helped unlock the weak point of City’s team. Was it won by the manager, or was our name on the result from the word go? Id say, his system was over run, forced to lay off the better side we fell into a system which was more suitable for the opposition we faced and managed to get lucky infront of goal, while the opposition missed far too many opportunities. Some of us have been craving this as a plan B.

Long may it continue.

----------------------------------------------------

On an unrelated point, our current manager seems to use every presser to bad mouth a player or group of players. Be it Weak mentally of individual players to the players not showing the right attitude, since the loss of form he is taking a page out of a former manager of ours by roasting our guys in the media. For some reason Sarri does not face the same back lash from the media when he does this? Interesting

Edited December 10, 2018 by The Liquidator

[Cicero]

This wasn't a plan B. Hazard started because our strikers hardly offer anything. The game plan was still there. 

Not once did we surrender our pressing game plan nor did we surrender playing out from the back.

It was evident that our pressing game was more composed and organised vs what we've seen from previous weeks. We also saw the likes of Kante and Kovacic find space relatively better than before, which only goes to show they are learning to adapt to this system. Jorginho will always be the #1 target for the opposition to take out of the game, so it is those two's job to find the space and passing lanes to make his job easier. 

[True Blue]

Jorginho was once again crucial for us, said no one ever.

[The Liquidator]

7 hours ago, True Blue said:

Jorginho was once again crucial for us, said no one ever.

Alas it's very true.

He needs to be careful, he is quickly becoming a Darren Wood or Joe Mclaughlin target of today's Chelsea fans.

Don't help him that Kante is loved so much by everyone, but he needs to something, anything positive soon.

[Batard]

I didn't think he had a bad game, granted he's not showing much value for the fee paid yet but mostly because he is quite meek in trying to win the ball back. He's not strong enough physically to play on his own without someone alongside him covering him. He's a budget Pirlo.

[LFCMadLad]

He's a poor man's Henderson. 

[Cicero]

42 minutes ago, Batard said:

I didn't think he had a bad game, granted he's not showing much value for the fee paid yet but mostly because he is quite meek in trying to win the ball back. He's not strong enough physically to play on his own without someone alongside him covering him. He's a budget Pirlo.

Disagree. If anything, he's showed too much intensity in trying to win the ball back. So much so that Kante and Kovacic can't keep up, hence the gaps that are left in our midfield the opposition can exploit. The press, more than anything, will take time to understand.

 

We already saw a more disciplined press approach against City. Jorginho, Kante, and Kovacic did pretty well with Pedro and Willian covering the channels. 

 

[LFCMadLad]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Disagree. If anything, he's showed too much intensity in trying to win the ball back. So much so that Kante and Kovacic can't keep up, hence the gaps that are left in our midfield the opposition can exploit. The press, more than anything, will take time to understand.

 

We already saw a more disciplined press approach against City. Jorginho, Kante, and Kovacic did pretty well with Pedro and Willian covering the channels. 

 

Pressing against City is pretty easy, as we have shown countless times. Jorginho though is pretty useless when it comes to teams that let you have possession, sitting everyone behind the ball. 

Chelsea, more often than not, are the team with the ball, trying to open up tight defences and in those cases, Jorginho is like a spare part. 

He's probably extremely useful in about 6 - 8 games a season for Chelsea. He would be much more effective playing for West Ham to be honest.

[Cicero]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Pressing against City is pretty easy, as we have shown countless times. Jorginho though is pretty useless when it comes to teams that let you have possession, sitting everyone behind the ball. 

Chelsea, more often than not, are the team with the ball, trying to open up tight defences and in those cases, Jorginho is like a spare part. 

He's probably extremely useful in about 6 - 8 games a season for Chelsea. He would be much more effective playing for West Ham to be honest.

Ah yes which explains why every club in the league press City 

Can smell your bait before even reading the rest. 

[LFCMadLad]

Just now, Cicero said:

Ah yes which explains why every club in the league press City 

Can smell your bait before even reading the rest. 

Well we press them and we have the best record against them in the league.

You lot pressed them and won 2 - 0. 

 

 

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Well we press them and we have the best record against them in the league.

You lot pressed them and won 2 - 0. 

 

 

Not every team has the quality and discipline in their players to press City and work around City's press. So again, it isn't easy. We were fortunate Kante's goal came when it did. 

And lets be real here, you got spanked 5-0 against them a year ago. Got fortunate in the CL given 2 goals were wrongfully disallowed for City, and should of lost against City if Mahrez put his penalty away. 

CONTEXT

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Cicero

[LFCMadLad]

25 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Not every team has the quality and discipline in their players to press City and work around City's press. So again, it isn't easy. We were fortunate Kante's goal came when it did. 

And lets be real here, you got spanked 5-0 against them a year ago. Got fortunate in the CL given 2 goals were wrongfully disallowed for City, and should of lost against City if Mahrez put his penalty away. 

CONTEXT

 

You have totally ignored my point that Jorginho is basically redundant against teams that let you have possession and put 11 behind the ball and hit you on the counter.

A season isn't based on playing City.

I point you to Wolves. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by LFCMadLad

[Cicero]

9 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You have totally ignored my point that Jorginho is basically redundant against teams that let you have possession and put 11 behind the ball and hit you on the counter.

A season isn't based on playing City.

I point you to Wolves. 

Jorginho didn't even play against Wolves 

 

[Spike]

If Jorginho is useless when he has possession, I guess so was Xavi for Barcelona. What a weird idea, he is the metronome.

[SirBalon]

Jorginho plays an extremely important role in how Sarri wants his team to perform.  Jorginho isn't a finaliser or a goal scorer which means that most of his important work will go unnoticed by many fans but I bet the players themselves love the fact he is one of their colleagues.  Plus let's also understand that this team is by no means a closed picture of what Maurizio Sarri will be wanting to construct in the next few years.  This is an inheritance with a couple of additions that he has to fit into what was already there to make it function in the best way possible.

[True Blue]

Are you saying i don't understand football you Spanish cunt?

[SirBalon]

2 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Are you saying i don't understand football you Spanish cunt?

Hahaha

Nah mate...

I remember many years back I had a friend that used to say that Pep Guardiola was a maningiless part of the Barça team of the time.  His argument was that he never did anything exciting 90% of the time and that it all seemed like meaningless nothingness. I then remember one summer we were in a bar in Ibiza having a drink and low and behold on the bar's tv they were doing an in depth analysis on Guardiola's contribution to the team for the season just ended (it was presented by Michael Robinson and on the panel was another Englishman in the shape of Gary Lineker, all fluent in Spanish)... From that day my friend understood and it went further than that because since then his favoured position where players are concerned is that position that is so vital in midfield and that makes all of the cogs work seamlessly in midfield.

A similar thing to what Andrés Iniesta recently said about N'Golo Kanté and how he is more a footballer's idol than a fan's idol.

[True Blue]

I'm just playing baby, you know i love you

[carefreeluke]

Been doing the rounds recently. Nice watch.

 

[The Liquidator]

I know the game had nothing on it for the club as we had sown up the mini league for qualification, so you could understand the outcome. However, you would have thought the players would have put more in, or at least responded to the manager n his staff to put in a performance. Lackluster, minimum effort and a performance that has lost any of the bounce about the club for the lucky win over City last weekend. Difficult to pick out any players of note although Giroud looked like a player who wanted to stand out when he came on.

We are coming up to the half way point in the PL season and our owner still hasnt set foot in the country this season. I have no idea how much truth there is in we could have a new owner by the end of the summer 2019, but it has to be said the rumours are getting more consistent n bold the longer Roman stays away. Makes you wonder if the passport he picked up in the summer is worth what he thought it was worth? Never spends Christmas in the UK, so it looks like 2019 before he takes his seat at the ground again?

[The Liquidator]

I watched the game on a great Sopcast stream and watched MOTD highlights a number of times.

Few quotes from our manager.

Chelsea boss Sarri said: “I think that when we have the feeling of being in full control of the match, we are dangerous for ourselves. Suddenly the level of application and attention is lowered.

“The feeling when we are in confidence, when we are sure of being in control of the match, is dangerous for us. I think we could have won better because we played very well for 60 minutes, I think.

“We conceded a goal in a moment in which we were in full control of the match, and so, in my mind, it was clear in that moment that we have to suffer in the last five minutes with the long balls into the box.

“We are not a physical team. With the substitutions, I tried to have a more physical impact for the last five minutes, but it was clear it was really very difficult in the last five minutes. We could have won really very better.”

Look I am no fan of this idiot, but when he comes out with total bollocks like this, understanding we were being over powered, yet not fucking doing anything about it till the last 5 mins, well, I just think it fully illuminates why he has never won anything.

Conte and Jose may not have the man management skills of this feller (Although if he continues to take a pop at the players he will soon lose that as well) but does any Chelsea fan believe they would have taken so long to work out what happened at the start of the 2^nd half? I was absolutely furious watching that second half progress. He even complimented Hazard for being prepared to drop back for the ball from his dumbass position of a false nine. The thing is you dumb ass, without anyone in the CF roll we had no top point to hit when we won the ball back. We were crying out for someone up front. The amount of time we had the ball at the back into midfield then nothing. Brighton couldn’t believe their luck. Their manager had changed his team tactics from the start of the 2^nd half and our idiot did NOTHING! But has the audacity to say he saved the day with 5 mins to go!

I have no confidence in him at all now and I am tired of his bullshit after matches where he places blame on the players. He is turning us into Wenger’s Arsenal and I hate it.

There is a lot more I could mention, like why the fuck is he continuing to start Kovacic when the boy cant last a full game and does absolutely nothing through any amount of minutes he is on the pitch. Barkley must be wondering what he has to oust the loan player. You just know Madrid are going to saddle us for him while our best player, the best player playing in this country leaves for a team who will play him in his preferred position. Everyone needs to cash in any luck they have about them as I cant see us finishing top four under this feller. Thank God Jose is doing such a wonderful job! Oh, Reuben Loftus-Cheek looked great, going forward, he was his normal waste of space when we were without the ball and I am told got in the ear from the manager during his cameo. Kovcic also got it from the manager too I am told.

@Bluewolf is right about “Alonso getting lucky there only getting a yellow” I think its safe to say the officials have had their card marked with him n I fully expect us to suffer him leaving the pitch before the end of the game sometime soon. It’s a shame the other Left Back is such a poor defender.  @Bluewolf also mentioned  “I don't think we have had a meaningful attack on their goal for the past 25 minutes... been all Brighton with the fight” Yeah… see above.

@carefreeluke wrote a nice piece on his fav Chelsea player Willian after the game where he listed a number of points on our skilful (at times) Brazilian. I found this nice line about him from the BBC which I am not sure over flatters him. Willian has now been directly involved in 50 goals in the Premier League (27 goals, 23 assists), becoming the third Brazilian player in competition history to reach this milestone, after Philippe Coutinho (76) and Roberto Firmino (64). I guess we need to know exact mins on the pitch to work out how good a return he is?

@True Blue compares the Wolves performance to this and I think he is bloody right to do so. I wish I had mentioned that point in my post elsewhere.

[Cicero]

You're so fucking boring