American Politics Discussion

[MUFC]

 

[Waylander]

There is no way Jan 6th was a coup attempt, there would have been dozens of dead, if not more.

The only dead person I was aware of was the female military officer and protester who was shot by security.

The coup attempt if a genuine one was just so pathetic, it looks more like a protest attempt to shout at some politicians that were not not there anyway.

Now was this pushed by Trump or a splinter group who also supported Trump?  

For me much more likely the latter. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

13 minutes ago, Waylander said:

There is no way Jan 6th was a coup attempt, there would have been dozens of dead, if not more.

They tried to stop election results, threatened to hang Mike Pence. That there weren't more dead really just shows the restraint the police at the capital building really had.

6 capital police officers died though.

I honestly think America's response to what happened is pretty pathetic. A bunch of idiots get charged but the people who organised it appear to get away scot free.

But just because it was a pathetic coup attempt done by a bunch of morons, doesn't mean it wasn't a coup attempt. And there's no real need to speculate on who was pushing this and who wasn't with so much of that info now public.

 

[Waylander]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

They tried to stop election results, threatened to hang Mike Pence. That there weren't more dead really just shows the restraint the police at the capital building really had.

6 capital police officers died though.

I honestly think America's response to what happened is pretty pathetic. A bunch of idiots get charged but the people who organised it appear to get away scot free.

But just because it was a pathetic coup attempt done by a bunch of morons, doesn't mean it wasn't a coup attempt. And there's no real need to speculate on who was pushing this and who wasn't with so much of that info now public.

 

The amount of fire power they could have brought instead of the pushing and shoving attempts at the doors suggests this was not a serious attempt.

It seems to me you can get more killed by a disturbed young kid at a school with an assault rifle rather than adults trained to use firearms. I didn't see any protesters there firing guns, some coup!

[DeadLinesman]

25 minutes ago, Waylander said:

The coup attempt if a genuine one was just so pathetic, it looks more like a protest attempt to shout at some politicians that were not not there anyway.

I’m pretty certain they were all there mate. Barricade behind doors in chambers protected by secret service agents at the door. The fact they shot dead a civilian attempting to enter the room pretty much tells you all you need to know. The threat was extremely real.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Waylander said:

The amount of fire power they could have brought instead of the pushing and shoving attempts at the doors suggests this was not a serious attempt.

It seems to me you can get more killed by a disturbed young kid at a school with an assault rifle rather than adults trained to use firearms. I didn't see any protesters there firing guns, some coup!

Yeah I'm not surprised even these knuckle dragging morons are even more reasonable than incel teens though, are you?

Bringing firearms to a federal building is a good way to get shot on sight, which I think they were very clearly trying to avoid. Even so, they still managed to kill and injure people who were trying to protect the integrity of the election.

[Viva la FCB+]

Im just surprised theres people still out there that try and deny reality and what actually happend? Well maybe Im not if you watch Fox News, OAN or Newsmax I suppose it was a peaceful protest and civilians took a stroll inside the house. Literally just watch the hearings and educate yourself on what took place. You have recorded and in person testimony under oath of many of the orange orangutans inner circle and diehard republicans telling you first hand what took place. I could go on but theres little point I think, basically If you genuinely believe nothing happend and there was no coup attempt you cannot be helped at this point.

[Stan]

So a coup is dictated on how many people died? And if not enough people died, it can't be classed as a coup?

 

Interesting. 

[Waylander]

It was a protest to show people in the state building they can be got at.

With people dying by accident we see this at football matches like at Hillsborough.

If it was a coup attempt you would have needed staff from agencies like the FBI, DHS, CIA involved on the protestors side and you know you would have needed hostages.

I also do not recall anything like sporadic gunfire which would have indicated a serious attempt at infiltration or a coup.

I think rather it has been politicised.

I have read links that 16 states are vulnerable to electronic states votes being hacked yet the Supreme court won't name them I guess due to political concerns.

No word yet on how they plug this weakness in the electoral system. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 minutes ago, Waylander said:

It was a protest to show people in the state building they can be got at.

With people dying by accident we see this at football matches like at Hillsborough.

If it was a coup attempt you would have needed staff from agencies like the FBI, DHS, CIA involved on the protestors side and you know you would have needed hostages.

I also do not recall anything like sporadic gunfire which would have indicated a serious attempt at infiltration or a coup.

I think rather it has been politicised.

I have read links that 16 states are vulnerable to electronic states votes being hacked yet the Supreme court won't name them I guess due to political concerns.

No word yet on how they plug this weakness in the electoral system. 

You know there've been bloodless coups in the past?

Of course it's been politicised... the entire thing was fucking political 

[Waylander]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You know there've been bloodless coups in the past?

Of course it's been politicised... the entire thing was fucking political 

I don't actually know example of bloodless coups unless you mean the election of Bush and not Gore which was very suspicious.

It could be bloodless yet that is normally because your power is in place with armed guns and the others are not a threat so you offer them to walk free yet that is rare.

Ireland broke from Britain because of armed martyrs taking the post office and most were killed. Public mood then shifted strongly against Britain. 

Iran got rid of the Shah and was coerced into a religious dictatorship because they were the most organised. Yet that was bloody.

The Balkans- I recall a lady from Sarajevo taking about how her city was torn apart by snipers. She said the snipers went for people who looked most clearly identified with one community and then the next day shooting people who looked like another community so everyone became distrustful and broke into ethnic groups. She blames the snipers. This happened after the Soviet Union broke up with it experiment of exchanging benefits for shares and led to the rise of the Oligarchs. Now Yugoslavia was not part of the Soviet Union yet did have cultural links and was also socialist. 

Interested in your bloodless coups in case I missed some?

[RandoEFC+]

Alright so Bush winning an election against Gore because more people voted for him was more of a coup than an army of gun-toting pro-Trump extremists breaking into the government buildings to protest against the fact that more people voted for Biden than him.

There really is no position on American politics that a decent amount of people can't convince themselves is sensible. The post-truth era.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Waylander said:

Iran got rid of the Shah and was coerced into a religious dictatorship because they were the most organised. Yet that was bloody.

Prague Spring & the other "Revolutions of 1989" , al-Fateh revolution (Libya), Carnation revolution (which turned Portugal into a democracy), People Power Revolution (bringing democracy back to the Philipines), Mongolian revolution of 1990.

You could argue UK's Operation Boot in Iran, taking democracy away from Iran and putting the Shah in power, was a bloodless revolution too. The Shah loved to claim that - but he did have a ton of National Front executed in the immediate aftermath of his coup at the behest of his masters in the UK and US.

[Dr. Gonzo]

 

This looks pretty damning. I think Congressman Loudermilk is probably shitting himself right now.

[Waylander]

17 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Alright so Bush winning an election against Gore because more people voted for him was more of a coup than an army of gun-toting pro-Trump extremists breaking into the government buildings to protest against the fact that more people voted for Biden than him.

There really is no position on American politics that a decent amount of people can't convince themselves is sensible. The post-truth era.

No I think Gore got more votes though he arguable might have won in Florida in the key swing state then yet Bush's brother Jeb, was police governor and allegedly locked up all ex-cons to stop them voting and win him the State. Gore protested yet eventually accepted it 

Even when Trump won he got less votes, it is the way the States are allocated seats. That is meant to be periodically reviewed to even things out. 

 

[Viva la FCB+]

This is how Fox covers the Jan 6 hearings. Fantastic to see them work the bullshit meter up to max and how they try to twist things. Its sad how effective it is though.

 

[Viva la FCB+]

Buttigieg is great, much like Bernie I could listen to Mayor Pete speak on any topic, good man. This is also hilarious.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

On 18/06/2022 at 01:34, Viva la FCB said:

This is how Fox covers the Jan 6 hearings. Fantastic to see them work the bullshit meter up to max and how they try to twist things. Its sad how effective it is though.

 

or the fact it's a pantomime to irrelevance.   its desperation and end of the line.   Fox has 4 to 5 times the viewership at any hour.   

80% of Americans on a poll voted that 6/1 has no interest to them.   

CNN is closer to administration than objective journalism, they are just a mouthpiece for the democrat party and failing miserably.    Anderson Cooper and don the lemon have less viewership than Awakening with JP lol.

#unwokethewest

[Dr. Gonzo]

Funny the reality some people live in. Apparently "80% of the US doesn't care about the attempted coup"...

... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/poll-finds-most-americans-feel-the-jan-6-insurrection-was-threatening-democracy/ar-AASmxZA 72% think it threatened democracy in the US - with people feeling how much Trump & co were responsible very much falling along party lines (so nowhere near 80% of the population not caring )

[OrangeKhrush]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Funny the reality some people live in. Apparently "80% of the US doesn't care about the attempted coup"...

... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/poll-finds-most-americans-feel-the-jan-6-insurrection-was-threatening-democracy/ar-AASmxZA 72% think it threatened democracy in the US - with people feeling how much Trump & co were responsible very much falling along party lines (so nowhere near 80% of the population not caring )

it still remains hearsay, which is why it was not referred to the Supreme Court.  just another kangaroo court with the dems and state sponsored media trying to prevent Trump running.   they have not been able to prove Trump said or commanded it, as it stands it really appears to be coordinated elsewhere.   Techno Viking was a risk to democracy

the sole purpose to air it is a attempt to smear or attribute one to all in a desperate political attempt like Russiagate all lies

 

i don't believe Trump will even be the candidate.   Ron De Santis is popular while not being a Twitter troll.   

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

it still remains hearsay, which is why it was not referred to the Supreme Court.  just another kangaroo court with the dems and state sponsored media trying to prevent Trump running.   they have not been able to prove Trump said or commanded it, as it stands it really appears to be coordinated elsewhere.   Techno Viking was a risk to democracy

the sole purpose to air it is a attempt to smear or attribute one to all in a desperate political attempt like Russiagate all lies

 

i don't believe Trump will even be the candidate.   Ron De Santis is popular while not being a Twitter troll.   

People died but sure & the evidence has been quite damning tbh

[OrangeKhrush]

35 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

People died but sure & the evidence has been quite damning tbh

People died does not have a causal link to Trump,  the charade is an alleged link and all there is is speculation and conjecture with no causality. 

[Viva la FCB+]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

People died but sure & the evidence has been quite damning tbh

I applaud you for attempting but some people cannot be helped. The guy just watches Fox News and regurgitates bullshit. Its nearly entirely all the orange shitstains inner circle, aids and republicans that are testifying with first hand accounts.You have Bill Barr who was one of the trumpiest trumpests around and one of the most partizan AG's in history testifying against him and stood up to him. Its Cheney former vice chair of the republican party and staunchly a conserative let alone her family ties and Kinzinger who is very much the same a military man, staunch conservative as a big part of this "partizan witch hunt"  its hilarious the mental gymnastics. I love that the CNN clip has 0 commentary its literally just Fox bullshit cuts and his defence is still to attack CNN.. I love it. 

Having known a good deal of this info before hand its still really refreshing to see the hearings and how its all laid out and connected. If the idiot thinks its speculation and conjecture you arent going to change his mind and thats fine he can remain with the vast vast minority and keep his head buried in the sand. I honestly dont know If they could have done a better job presenting this so far, they've touched on all parts, all facets of his plan and his relentlessness to try and steal the election and spread bullshit baseless facts that where repeatedly denied by most around him. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

People died does not have a causal link to Trump,  the charade is an alleged link and all there is is speculation and conjecture with no causality. 

The smoking gun is the order he gave to the acting AG - "Say the election was corrupt, the Republican senators and I will take care of the rest" - that alone demonstrates intent. Then you take into account testimony from people who were in the inner circle of the Trump campaign, the numerous instances of sitting legislators aiding with the people who stormed the capital, the video footage of Trump & family while the events were unfolding, the recorded call to the Georgia Secretary of State asking that he "find the 10,000 votes" that would give Trump the win...

It should be a much bigger deal to more people that the "leaders of the free world" had an attempt to have their election results overturned where people died and there's really been little consequence.

[OrangeKhrush]

he may have said find me votes but that doesn't mean storm the capital lol