American Politics Discussion

[OrangeKhrush]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Are you aware of what's actually happening now though?

The states shown below are implementing bans on abortion. Not curtailments. For example Texas, which previously legislated a 6 week limit on abortion now has a law coming in 30 days that will outright ban all abortions from the moment of fertilisation with the only exception being to save the life of the mother.... Rape and incest are not sufficient grounds for an abortion.

 

 

if a state exercises that through democratic will then it is what it is.  it just means you don't live th ere or do that.   since it is laws passed on majority will who is to interfere in that

[Devil-Dick Willie]

7 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

if a state exercises that through democratic will then it is what it is.  it just means you don't live th ere or do that.   since it is laws passed on majority will who is to interfere in that

If you were sat in a room of Harry, Stan and I, and we democratically elected to rip your tits off with a pair of tongs, you'd follow through because it's the will of the people? 

Look at what happens when you use populism as a yard stick. You get states like Texas hahaha. And Brexit. Enjoy!. 

[OrangeKhrush]

9 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

If you were sat in a room of Harry, Stan and I, and we democratically elected to rip your tits off with a pair of tongs, you'd follow through because it's the will of the people? 

Look at what happens when you use populism as a yard stick. You get states like Texas hahaha. And Brexit. Enjoy!. 

That would not be a democracy because democracy is not founded upon violence,  it is founded on human dignity, life and equality before law,  so what you are really describing is leninist anarcho communism or moaisist authoritarianism.    You can try again. 

[OrangeKhrush]

I never thought I would see the day where "self titled" liberals will consider the extension of fundamental human rights to pre born/still born a very well established principal based on egalitarian liberal jurisprudence be considered a bad thing.   I guess moral compasses don't point north or true north. 

My body my rules is bullshit,  liberalism is not absolute and is constrained by Law,  this adapts though time but there is no such thing as absolute liberty.   Next the state has the right to take control of your body in other scenarios:

• If you are convicted of a crime the state may incarcerate you against your freedom of movement and bodily autonomy,  and may in some circumstances execute you.
• If you are self harming or a risk to society you can be institutionalised to protect yourself and society from harm.   

I wonder where the uproar brigade are on that little chestnut.    

Having states have the right to exercise their federal rights to determine laws on this is democratic,  I would not concur with absolute bans on abortion,  but on the same token I don't agree with unlimited abortion and site somewhere in the middle where society just has a hard time agreeing on.   Abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances, on professional opinion up to a certain point in the gestation period,  which is how most of the world already does it so the fact that the US is so far behind is the thing that baffles me the most. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Fuck me, did you survive an abortion?

[Spike]

56 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

That would not be a democracy because democracy is not founded upon violence,  it is founded on human dignity, life and equality before law,  so what you are really describing is leninist anarcho communism or moaisist authoritarianism.    You can try again. 

Democracy isn’t some magical perfect ideal that always ends in the right decision. Democracy can and has been born in violence.

[Spike]

41 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Fuck me, did you survive an abortion?

No, he survived Reddit.

[Rucksackfranzose]

2 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I never thought I would see the day where "self titled" liberals will consider the extension of fundamental human rights to pre born/still born a very well established principal based on egalitarian liberal jurisprudence be considered a bad thing.   I guess moral compasses don't point north or true north. 

My body my rules is bullshit,  liberalism is not absolute and is constrained by Law,  this adapts though time but there is no such thing as absolute liberty.   Next the state has the right to take control of your body in other scenarios:

• If you are convicted of a crime the state may incarcerate you against your freedom of movement and bodily autonomy,  and may in some circumstances execute you.
• If you are self harming or a risk to society you can be institutionalised to protect yourself and society from harm.   

I wonder where the uproar brigade are on that little chestnut.    

Having states have the right to exercise their federal rights to determine laws on this is democratic,  I would not concur with absolute bans on abortion,  but on the same token I don't agree with unlimited abortion and site somewhere in the middle where society just has a hard time agreeing on.   Abortion should be allowed in certain circumstances, on professional opinion up to a certain point in the gestation period,  which is how most of the world already does it so the fact that the US is so far behind is the thing that baffles me the most. 

Shows that your assumption every life would be sacred is premature, doesn't it.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Rucksackfranzose

[OrangeKhrush]

Some wonderful human beings,  lets damage control. 

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Shows that your assumption every life would be sacred is premature, doesn't it.

Having gone through the fatherhood thing it really is,  and that is why laws recognize legal personality to unborns,  it is also a fundamental principal that informs the liberal school of jurisprudence. 

[OrangeKhrush]

3 hours ago, Spike said:

Democracy isn’t some magical perfect ideal that always ends in the right decision. Democracy can and has been born in violence.

He was describing 3 people deciding to cause harm in order to force will,  that is basically a autocracy, authoritarianism example,   the founding provisions of democratic democracies is not evil so his example was not realistic,  it is the typical progressive misconception of democracy and why the democrats today that advocate violence are anti democratic.    in a constitutional democracy,  life, dignity and equality are entrenched rights,  and liberal legal systems have extended the right to life to "born alive" children,  this is why the west prides itself on humanitarianism,  except when it doesn't suit political ideology. 

they are now talking about unilateral acts of power grabbing and use of violence to get political power is the real threat to democracy.   November is mid terms and the democrats are in trouble so they will do what they did in 2020,   use fear and violence to coerce people but I don't think it will work. 

 

 

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Having gone through the fatherhood thing it really is,  and that is why laws recognize legal personality to unborns,  it is also a fundamental principal that informs the liberal school of jurisprudence. 

So, if every life is sacred in your opinion you oppose death sentences, and armies- since it's the task of armies to take the sacred lives of the enemies soldiers?

[OrangeKhrush]

54 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

So, if every life is sacred in your opinion you oppose death sentences, and armies- since it's the task of armies to take the sacred lives of the enemies soldiers?

I live in a country that doesn't have a death penalty however incarcerations' would be tolerable removal of human rights to movement and choice.   

Making war is not a right,  it is a consequence of when society deteriorates to the point of war,  but I wouldn't say I advocate any rights to start war,  a consequence of war is regrettably loss of live and at the end someone is held responsible. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by OrangeKhrush

[OrangeKhrush]

In South Africa we have the Freedom of Choice to terminate Pregnancy Act which provides:

In the first 12 weeks,  the woman has the choice to terminate pregnancy.

At 12+1 the woman can only terminate pregnancy if certain circumstances exist and it is the recommendation of a practitioner.

At 21 weeks only in the event of foreseable risk to life or severe deformation would impair quality of life and subject to the expert opinion of a medical practitioner. 

This is very similar to legislation in the UK and AUS,  the gestation period being different,  in the later they extend choice up to 24 weeks while in our jurisprudence by 12 weeks a feotus is classified born alive,  by 21 weeks it is a fully developed human baby.

I am fine with this position it strikes the balance between freedom of choice but the longer it goes into the gestation,  the choice is reduced to a decision on circumstances left to expert opinion and not individual liberty. 

[OrangeKhrush]

Ireland is the only country in the world with Constitutionalised fetal rights,  most constitutions were drafted without that consideration however it is an interesting position.   Abortion is not illegal in ireland so it is a working model of the acceptance of fetal rights and personality and the value on sanctity of life. 

[OrangeKhrush]

good thing my skeet gun isn't dangerous.

all the tested calibers can be lethal, and having a ballistic lodge or fragment inside is worse than those that exit, except if it is a 223 or 7.62/308, slug and 50 cal which destroy organs with the shockwave.   

9mm is good at stopping bad guys, 50 cal is great at turning organs to mush and leaving a cavity.

 

[Spike]

9mm is good for shooting kids as well.

[Stan]

Ha. 

 

[Bluewolf]

Totally on board with allowing people with no self control to have arms in public, In case you ever need to defend yourself from people who don't know how to give out the correct amount of salad dressing... Go America!! 

[Viva la FCB+]

Quality of life improvement blocking that guy I tell you.....

[Dr. Gonzo]

21 hours ago, Stan said:

Ha. 

 

 Jesus Christ

How long before they start forcing pregnant women to ingest firearms so that the unborn can exercise it's second amendment rights and protect itself from womb shooters?

[Harry]

It's still sinking in. 13 states will imminently have banned abortion from the moment of fertilisation.

The only exception common to all states is to save the life of the mother.

If a 12 year old is raped by her grandpa... 9 of 13 states say carry to term.

If a baby is diagnosed with a lethal birth defect and is guaranteed to die in birth. 12 of 13 states say Carry. To. Term. What a nightmare for the mental health of the parents.

 

 

[OrangeKhrush]

abcnews.go.com/US/63-year-woman-beaten-death-bus-stop-police/story?id=85840383

in such instance I wish someone was carrying and saw this.  lungs be damned.

[Viva la FCB+]

The hearing today is absolutely mental. It wasnt planned originally and I see why this was put in. White House Aide to Mark Meadows (Orangutans chief of staff) testified in person about everything surrounding the white house and the events of January 6th. No wonder the retrumplicans keep downplaying the day and the committee there is literal 0 defence to what occurred otherwise.  I would love to see the testimony of Pat Cipollone (white house counsel for the former president) it seems like hes in the middle of many of the testimonys and I can see why he hasnt complied so far but man what a story he would have to tell. 

[OrangeKhrush]

Cassidy Hutchinson testified and it was all hearsay, she wasn't present but testified that it happened based on what she heard.  

dare we talk about the inadmisability of hearsay.  it was so bad the secret service agents were going to testify it was made up.

it is the house trying to play court, if it was so pertinent they will take it to the SupremeCourt.