Least Respectable Football Clubs

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

How do you love it? It's considered a homophobic chant and from my understanding of the meaning within Mexican culture, it's similar to our word f*g.

If my understanding is correct, then it's completely uncalled for. 

Well not my understanding. From what I've been told by my Mexican buddies it's closer to 'rent boy' or 'man-whore' than faggot, it can be used in a homophobic context but not strictly. And it's your word not our word fag, that means cigarette to me. To me 'puto' is also a desert from the Philippines. Besides, I'm not Mexican nor am I Spanish speaker I have no right to police their language.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

Well not my understanding. From what I've been told by my Mexican buddies it's closer to 'rent boy' or 'man-whore' than faggot, it can be used in a homophobic context but not strictly. And it's your word not our word fag, that means cigarette to me. To me 'puto' is also a desert from the Philippines. Besides, I'm not Mexican nor am I Spanish speaker I have no right to police their language.

I have spoken to this by my Mexican friends, and one of the made the comparison to the American English word 'f*g'. 

But even it if means 'man whore', and your team and federation are getting in trouble for the chant, why keep doing it? This isn't 1990 anymore and you can't go around without saying what you wish without the threat of punishment? Just seems completely arrogant of the Mexican fans to continue to say it. 

And it does seem we have had a few conversations around language recently, but there needs to be a police about language, as it doesn't matter if it's in Spanish, English, Russian, Chinese, Tagalog, or even Esperanto...it the words are racist, homophobic, or derogatory towards any group of people, then they need to be eliminated. 

[Cicero]

The word Puto gained its notoriety from its homophobic denotation. If some Hispanics use the term to only describe someone as a "Man whore" isn't really the point because it isn't them to decide. 

It's either all of these words are OK, or none of them are. In this day and age and the efforts in place to remove discrimination, you cannot hold one particular word with such high esteem "Nigger" over others. "Puto, Fag".

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

I have spoken to this by my Mexican friends, and one of the made the comparison to the American English word 'f*g'. 

But even it if means 'man whore', and your team and federation are getting in trouble for the chant, why keep doing it? This isn't 1990 anymore and you can't go around without saying what you wish without the threat of punishment? Just seems completely arrogant of the Mexican fans to continue to say it. 

And it does seem we have had a few conversations around language recently, but there needs to be a police about language, as it doesn't matter if it's in Spanish, English, Russian, Chinese, Tagalog, or even Esperanto...it the words are racist, homophobic, or derogatory towards any group of people, then they need to be eliminated. 

It's not my job to police other cultures and languages, I'm not so arrogant to believe that I know best in those situations, nor do I know there cultures or how they feel. If they want to change it let them have the discussion, let them change themselves, I'm not for imperialistic interventionism, this isn't colonial centuries for a big boy foreign power to enlighten the natives.

It would be very easy for me to tell every American that fag means cigarette and they've been using it wrong this whole time, but I don't because I don't speak American English, and I have the presence of mind that some words in my language aren't appropriate for an American audience. Just like how Rob Gronkowski's nickname is 'Gronk' that means 'idiot' in Australia but I don't feel the need to correct people on that.

[Eco]

6 minutes ago, Spike said:

It's not my job to police other cultures and languages, I'm not so arrogant to believe that I know best in those situations, nor do I know there cultures or how they feel. If they want to change it let them have the discussion, let them change themselves, I'm not for imperialistic interventionism, this isn't colonial centuries for a big boy foreign power to enlighten the natives.

It would be very easy for me to tell every American that fag means cigarette and they've been using it wrong this whole time, but I don't because I don't speak American English, and I have the presence of mind that some words in my language aren't appropriate for an American audience. Just like how Rob Gronkowski's nickname is 'Gronk' that means 'idiot' in Australia but I don't feel the need to correct people on that.

So, should fans be allowed to say anything towards the opposing fans?

If USA plays Senegal, should the USA Federation go unpunished if we begin chanting the 'n' word towards them? 

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

So, should fans be allowed to say anything towards the opposing fans?

If USA plays Senegal, should the USA Federation go unpunished if we begin chanting the 'n' word towards them? 

Not even close to what I'm saying.  Nice try though.

[Eco]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

Not even close to what I'm saying.  Nice try though.

I'm not having a go, I'm literally trying to interpret what you mean by the below..

18 minutes ago, Spike said:

It's not my job to police other cultures and languages, I'm not so arrogant to believe that I know best in those situations, nor do I know there cultures or how they feel. If they want to change it let them have the discussion, let them change themselves, I'm not for imperialistic interventionism, this isn't colonial centuries for a big boy foreign power to enlighten the natives.

And this leads me to believe that as long as the USA Federation doesn't have a problem with them, then it is acceptable? That's all I'm asking. 

If you answer 'no', that US in this situation should never be allowed to chant the 'n' word to opposing fans regardless of what the Federation thinks, then where do you draw the line? 

[Spike]

Just now, Eco said:

I'm not having a go, I'm literally trying to interpret what you mean by the below..

And this leads me to believe that as long as the USA Federation doesn't have a problem with them, then it is acceptable? That's all I'm asking. 

If you answer 'no', that US in this situation should never be allowed to chant the 'n' word to opposing fans regardless of what the Federation thinks, then where do you draw the line? 

What I mean it isn't up to the USA to charge and control the Mexican fans. They can report them to the Mexican FA and the Mexican FA has to take control of the situation. If American fans were to chant that, they'd be promptly punished by the American Association, the XYZ of whatever foreign association can't do that, but if they were to take umbrage with those chants they'd report it to the association.

I'm not particularly phased by insults from other languages, they don't have any weight for me, because I usually don't know the word nor do I speak the langauge and understand the subtle connotations. Maybe it's different for others.

[Eco]

16 minutes ago, Eco said:

So, should fans be allowed to say anything towards the opposing fans?

If USA plays Senegal, should the USA Federation go unpunished if we begin chanting the 'n' word towards them? 

 

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

What I mean it isn't up to the USA to charge and control the Mexican fans. They can report them to the Mexican FA and the Mexican FA has to take control of the situation. If American fans were to chant that, they'd be promptly punished by the American Association, the XYZ of whatever foreign association can't do that, but if they were to take umbrage with those chants they'd report it to the association.

I'm not particularly phased by insults from other languages, they don't have any weight for me, because I usually don't know the word nor do I speak the langauge and understand the subtle connotations. Maybe it's different for others.

But that's the problem there, IMO. 

The bolded above would be 100% in your scenario if the USA had no issue with such a act. Sure, maybe this scenario is odd because we are talking about the USA. 

But if Hungary was making the chant every time that Sterling touched the ball the other day, and the Hungary FA had no issue with it, then you would have a massive issue on your hands....Do you agree? 

And no, you probably aren't phased much by insults because we are both white males, which is the least insulted demographic in the world. But if you are raised and called a 'n' word, a slut, a f*g, or whatever slur you can imagine, then sooner or later someone needs to stand up and make it stop, and in this case, that someone is FIFA. 

Not saying it's perfect, but it's certainly a lot better than having the individual federations decide what can and can't be said in an International game. 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

 

But that's the problem there, IMO. 

The bolded above would be 100% in your scenario if the USA had no issue with such a act. Sure, maybe this scenario is odd because we are talking about the USA. 

But if Hungary was making the chant every time that Sterling touched the ball the other day, and the Hungary FA had no issue with it, then you would have a massive issue on your hands....Do you agree? 

And no, you probably aren't phased much by insults because we are both white males, which is the least insulted demographic in the world. But if you are raised and called a 'n' word, a slut, a f*g, or whatever slur you can imagine, then sooner or later someone needs to stand up and make it stop, and in this case, that someone is FIFA. 

Not saying it's perfect, but it's certainly a lot better than hav ing the individual federations decide what can and can't be said in an International game. 

Well you can speak for yourself because when I was in school I was a minority and I was deathly afraid of getting beat up for being white for about a year. I had a couple of bullies that were of Aboriginal Australian and would hit me and call me a 'white cunt' 'white dog' yadda yadda. It wasn't too bad really looking back on it and I got over it but I didn't really like going to school for a very long time. I just had to kick someone in the head and get into a few fights. I said FOREIGN insults, not English insults. I'm quite annoyed when Americans call me 'dog' because in Australia that is a fighting word; but at the same time it's not worth causing a fuss because I know in America that word isn't an insult, and is usually used in quite a close informal setting.

If the Hungarian FA doesn't do anything to change it, that just reflects poorly on them. They are aware of the current state of the world, they would be naive to ignore that. I wouldn't imagine that any governing body would be so ignorant as to let international relations falter because of chants. They want people to come to games, they want the tourism and it's tantamount to shooting oneself in the foot to not try to amend these sort of things. 

[Eco]

2 minutes ago, Spike said:

Well you can speak for yourself because when I was in school I was a minority and I was deathly afraid of getting beat up for being white for about a year. I had a couple of bullies that were of Aboriginal Australian and would hit me and call me a 'white cunt' 'white dog' yadda yadda. It wasn't too bad really looking back on it and I got over it but I didn't really like going to school for a very long time. I just had to kick someone in the head and get into a few fights. I said FOREIGN insults, not English insults. I'm quite annoyed when Americans call me 'dog' because in Australia that is a fighting word; but at the same time it's not worth causing a fuss because I know in America that word isn't an insult, and is usually used in quite a close informal setting.

If the Hungarian FA doesn't do anything to change it, that just reflects poorly on them. They are aware of the current state of the world, they would be naive to ignore that. I wouldn't imagine that any governing body would be so ignorant as to let international relations falter because of chants. They want people to come to games, they want the tourism and it's tantamount to shooting oneself in the foot to not try to amend these sort of things. 

Well, I hate that you were subjected to that, but on a whole, white males are the least at risk of assault and discrimination. 

And fair enough on your views about the Hungarian FA. Personally, I know that there are a lot of countries out there with very serious Human Rights concerns, and I don't trust those countries to protect players and fans from verbal abuse.

[Spike]

At the same time I'd like to say that the generic 'puto' chant from Mexican crowds is meant to just 'unnerve' the goalie. It isn't a chant directed at a homosexual player, or at any particular player. Does that make it okay? Not really but that also doesn't make it the same as singling out a player like Sterling with racist verbiage.

[Spike]

Just now, Eco said:

Well, I hate that you were subjected to that, but on a whole, white males are the least at risk of assault and discrimination. 

And fair enough on your views about the Hungarian FA. Personally, I know that there are a lot of countries out there with very serious Human Rights concerns, and I don't trust those countries to protect players and fans from verbal abuse.

I know what you mean I just dislike generalisations like that, it does no good really and marginalises the exceptions to those rules.

I don't trust those countries anyway mate. The last thing that matters is a football chant in some places, it would be way down on the totem pole of risks and problems. You can't force the issue either, people can't just be changed on a dime like that.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

At the same time I'd like to say that the generic 'puto' chant from Mexican crowds is meant to just 'unnerve' the goalie. It isn't a chant directed at a homosexual player, or at any particular player. Does that make it okay? Not really but that also doesn't make it the same as singling out a player like Sterling with racist verbiage.

I understand your logic, but when it comes to making rules, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that 'puto' is okay because it's meant to unnerve someone, but calling a black person a 'n' is against the rules. Who's to say that the goalie isn't a homosexual? It's not something you wear on your skin, which is why I'm in favor of banning it completely. 

I highly doubt it unnerves anyone, and instead just makes Mexican fans look like a bunch of ignorant homophobes. 

[Spike]

Just now, Eco said:

I understand your logic, but when it comes to making rules, you can't have it both ways. You can't say that 'puto' is okay because it's meant to unnerve someone, but calling a black person a 'n' is against the rules. Who's to say that the goalie isn't a homosexual? It's not something you wear on your skin, which is why I'm in favor of banning it completely. 

I highly doubt it unnerves anyone, and instead just makes Mexican fans look like a bunch of ignorant homophobes. 

I know but it is something Mexicans have to stop doing themselves. It has to be an organic change otherwise it really isn't a change at all.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Cicero said:

The word Puto gained its notoriety from its homophobic denotation. If some Hispanics use the term to only describe someone as a "Man whore" isn't really the point because it isn't them to decide. 

It's either all of these words are OK, or none of them are. In this day and age and the efforts in place to remove discrimination, you cannot hold one particular word with such high esteem "Nigger" over others. "Puto, Fag".

I think it literally means "man whore" but it's definitely got homophobic connotations when it's used.

I also don't think telling people not to say something that might be offensive when you're encountering those people who might find it offensive is a kind of "imperialism" - that's just being mindful lol

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it literally means "man whore" but it's definitely got homophobic connotations when it's used.

I also don't think telling people not to say something that might be offensive when you're encountering those people who might find it offensive is a kind of "imperialism" - that's just being mindful lol

I don't see it that way when FIFA and the many international confederations are the ones enforcing the rules. All shifting towards a more progressive outcome. 

[Smiley Culture]

The European Super League clubs. Swept under the carpet really now fans are back in stadiums and they were never really punished properly. 

[carefreeluke]

Liverpool

[Ploughendplonker]

Norwich City. Claimed furlough money to pay their staff but still spent millions on player transfers. Stealing money from taxpayers to fund their promotion push. Utter scum. 

[Cicero]

3 hours ago, carefreeluke said:

Liverpool

3 hours and still no bite. Bad day. 

[Azeem]

19 minutes ago, Cicero said:

3 hours and still no bite. Bad day. 

carefreeluke is a nice guy as his username suggests that's why. You try it !

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

3 hours and still no bite. Bad day. 

We already know nobody likes us

[MUFC]

Real Madrid, the most stuck-up arrogant cunts in the history of football. 

[JoshBRFC+]

Always disliked Real Madrid, the consistent booing of their own players being the main reason.