Everton 1-4 Liverpool - Wednesday 1st December, 2021

[Dr. Gonzo]

Lol these two dives that got bookings are actually shockingly unconvincing dives

[Rick]

4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Lol how do Liverpool keep making such hard work of these Goodison trips. I was being generous when I called us a League One side.

It’s ridiculous how you lot have done very little yet we are making it look like you’re in the game. The first 20 mins were brilliant, but we stepped off the gas and look at it now. 

[Whiskey]

Referees an absolute bellend like 

[RandoEFC+]

Two players booked for diving when there was contact and one booked for winning the ball and people are still laughing about my cynical take on why Klopp has brought up the Van Dijk-Pickford incident multiple times in the lead up to this.

[DeadLinesman]

5 minutes ago, Rick said:

Absolutely gifted them that. Trent asleep on the cover and Alisson with some shite goalkeeping. Annoying as fuck. 

How was that shite goalkeeping

[DeadLinesman]

Why are teams still getting changed in the car park at Goodison?

[Inverted]

I’ll never get tired of people saying Alexander-Arnold is out of position for goals when Liverpool concede from turnovers and he has about 1.5 seconds to get from the touch line to the penalty spot if he wants to track “his” man. 

[RandoEFC+]

Alexander-Arnold is honestly so poor defensively that he's single-handedly got us back in the game. Miles behind the play again on that last move. It really isn't any wonder why people have talked about playing him in a different position and why the England manager often prefers different options in a team that doesn't routinely dominate 90% of the play in their games.

Just now, DeadLinesman said:

Why are teams still getting changed in the car park at Goodison?

Van Dijk still too scared off Pickford to walk back down the tunnel to the normal changing rooms. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

How was that shite goalkeeping

I don't think that's shit goalkeeping and I also don't really blame Trent - his positioning is like that because he thinks we're about to get possession and he wants to counter.... that's him following the system. The way we play, it's just the nature of how it's going to go sometimes - we will sometimes get caught out because of how open we are. But at the same time, it's part of why we're scoring more goals than we ever have at this stage in the premier league.

It's a bit shit though because if Everton play to their strengths, it sort of plays right into that weakness. So we've got to be better going forward or be a lot more careful on the ball to limit them going direct like that.

[RandoEFC+]

[Rick]

We need to stop using “the system” as an excuse when we see blatant bad defending. Common sense should prevail when you see a big fuck off space with an opposition player standing in it. 
 

If utd had conceded and Shaw had left all that space we would be ripping the bag out of him. Once Matip moves to cover Virj, Trent should close the gap between him and Joel. 

[LFCMike]

6 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Two players booked for diving when there was contact and one booked for winning the ball and people are still laughing about my cynical take on why Klopp has brought up the Van Dijk-Pickford incident multiple times in the lead up to this.

Winning the ball doesn't mean you can't be booked. Wasn't a great challenge from Allan.

Anyway, need to improve at the start of the second half. Was almost too easy at times early on in that first half. Hopefully that goal wakes us up

[Inverted]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I posted first therefore I'm right. Simples.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, Rick said:

We need to stop using “the system” as an excuse when we see blatant bad defending. Common sense should prevail when you see a big fuck off space with an opposition player standing in it. 

The system is why he's where he is though? It doesn't take more than having eyes and watching us this season and then comparing how we played to last season to see that our fullbacks are significantly higher up the pitch when we've got possession. It's also why we're having so much more success countering this season. It's also why our defense is getting caught out far more - we're playing much more open in possession this season.

The alternative is:

• Trent doesn't follow Klopp's instructions - which is probably overall worse for the side
• Trent is expected to develop rocket propulsion like he's a rocket league car, so he can have a chance of covering that space

[RandoEFC+]

He was more at fault in that last move where Allan knocked it in behind for Digne. Flat-footed. It's a bit of a habit. It doesn't change the fact that he's the best full back Liverpool can have the way they play, which involves them doing a lot more attacking than defending. It doesn't mean you can't point out his drawbacks at the back end of the pitch.

[Rick]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The system is why he's where he is though? It doesn't take more than having eyes and watching us this season and then comparing how we played to last season to see that our fullbacks are significantly higher up the pitch when we've got possession. It's also why we're having so much more success countering this season. It's also why our defense is getting caught out far more - we're playing much more open in possession this season.

But we didn’t have possession, Everton did. And they were able to put a very simple ball into a man standing in a ton of space because Trent was thinking too much about attacking in a moment where he should be defending. 
 

I understand the way we play, I do have those eyes you speak of. But I’m allowed to not agree with this idea that the system trumps common sense. Conceding goals in that fashion is stupid. 

[Rick]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

He was more at fault in that last move where Allan knocked it in behind for Digne. Flat-footed. It's a bit of a habit. It doesn't change the fact that he's the best full back Liverpool can have the way they play, which involves them doing a lot more attacking than defending. It doesn't mean you can't point out his drawbacks at the back end of the pitch.

Apparently you can’t without being told you don’t understand football

[LFCMadLad]

It astounds me that people who watch us constantly still think Trent is a Full Back, just because it says it on Sky's pre-match team sheet.

He isn't a fullback! 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Rick said:

But we didn’t have possession, Everton did. And they were able to put a very simple ball into a man standing in a ton of space because Trent was thinking too much about attacking in a moment where he should be defending. 
 

I understand the way we play, I do have those eyes you speak of. But I’m allowed to not agree with this idea that the system trumps common sense. Conceding goals in that fashion is stupid. 

It was a 50-50, if we'd won the ball back chances are we'd be looking to counter up the right side. He's following instructions there - the way we're set up this season shit like this is just going to happen. We'll either get a great counter opportunity in moments like that or the defense will be caught with its pants down. It's not the first time it's happened this season and it's not the last time it'll happen.

It's obviously a weakness in the way we play - but realistically, what can Trent be expected to do there? He's either going to follow the manager's instructions, not follow the instructions - which I think is probably worse tbh, or to have superhuman speed.

But it's more the way we play that's the liability there than Trent.

[Rick]

I’m asking for a bit of flexibility from the system. You don’t always have to be looking to go forward, especially not when the opposition have it in your own box.

Trent is a fullback (despite some bizarre claims that he isn’t). And while it’s undeniable that he is attack minded and amazing going forward, he is still a member of that back four and has defensive duties to attend to. And I’ll not change my opinion on that so perhaps it’s a pointless back and forth. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

11 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

He was more at fault in that last move where Allan knocked it in behind for Digne. Flat-footed. It's a bit of a habit. It doesn't change the fact that he's the best full back Liverpool can have the way they play, which involves them doing a lot more attacking than defending. It doesn't mean you can't point out his drawbacks at the back end of the pitch.

Yeah, I agree with that - that's a better instance of pointing out Trent's flaws. He's obviously a lot better going forward than defending. But honestly statistically he's not been that bad defensively for us this season and that goal you scored is more a highlight of the defensive frailty of how we set up to play than any individual failure.

[RandoEFC+]

Van Dijk is properly embarrassing isn't he. Made his big red carpet return in the Anfield derby last season thinking they'd beat us and the cameras would pan to him in the crowd and start playing the Titanic music or something. Now he's stepping up taking free kicks into the middle of the wall instead of a player who might actually score to try and get on the back page.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Rick said:

I’m asking for a bit of flexibility from the system. You don’t always have to be looking to go forward, especially not when the opposition have it in your own box.

Trent is a fullback (despite some bizarre claims that he isn’t). And while it’s undeniable that he is attack minded and amazing going forward, he is still a member of that back four and has defensive duties to attend to. And I’ll not change my opinion on that so perhaps it’s a pointless back and forth. 

Now this I agree with as well - I would like some flexibility from the system as well, because the season we ran away from the league I think we had a much more flexible side. But we've definitely changed a lot about how we set up to play this season - in terms of the midfielder & fullback positioning.

And yeah, Trent's obviously a fullback. I don't understand the claims that he isn't purely because he takes multiple positions during a match. Just because he's a very good fullback who goes forward (and this season also cuts inside centrally more often) and of course he's got defensive responsibilities. But I don't think him playing the way he's been instructed to play by the manager is really him neglecting his defensive duties.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Van Dijk is properly embarrassing isn't he. Made his big red carpet return in the Anfield derby last season thinking they'd beat us and the cameras would pan to him in the crowd and start playing the Titanic music or something. Now he's stepping up taking free kicks into the middle of the wall instead of a player who might actually score to try and get on the back page.

Didn't he take free kicks at Celtic and Southampton?

[RandoEFC+]

More of a dive than the two bookings in the first half .