Russia and Ukraine

[Guest]

@Viva la FCB haven't you  noticed that @Waylander is a bit paranoid 

[6666]

I think we should go full US media and call Waylander a secret Russian agent...

[6666]

3 hours ago, Viva la FCB said:

Have I mentioned how much I love fox news viewers. Its been categorically proven false now fuck off with your bullshit. Theyre soviet era labs for one. 

Are you American/live in America? Because you seem to have turned this into an emotionally charged, tribal, left/right situation where it's all about "gotcha moments". This is why both Fox News and MSNBC seem like complete trash whenever I've seen clips.

[Viva la FCB+]

19 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Are you American/live in America? Because you seem to have turned this into an emotionally charged, tribal, left/right situation where it's all about "gotcha moments". This is why both Fox News and MSNBC seem like complete trash whenever I've seen clips.

No Canadian but I follow American politics fairly closely because it is trickling into Canada as well. Nothing to do with gotcha moments but when idiots keep paroting garbage it triggers me. 

Im not a big MSNBC guy either way but if youre trying to compare them to fox thats laughable in itself. One at least attempts to report news the other only has a modicum of news and thats on sundays because thats not what their viewers want to see or listen to. Their viewers want to watch opinion propaganda machines that spread nothing but bullshit. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Viva la FCB

[Guest]

@Viva la FCB  dont american news channels report bullshit like climate change denial? It would never get past Ofsted in Britain. 

[RandoEFC+]

24 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@Viva la FCB  dont american news channels report bullshit like climate change denial? It would never get past Ofsted in Britain. 

Ofcom, you mean. And I don't know where you're getting that from to be honest. BBC Question Time have climate change "sceptics" (a word they use in place of deniers to make themselves sound more credible) on their panels all the time for one. Farage is making a campaign against the net zero emission targets his next grift as well and we know you can't keep him off the box so get ready for that.

[6666]

1 hour ago, Viva la FCB said:

No Canadian but I follow American politics fairly closely because it is trickling into Canada as well. Nothing to do with gotcha moments but when idiots keep paroting garbage it triggers me. 

Im not a big MSNBC guy either way but if youre trying to compare them to fox thats laughable in itself. One at least attempts to report news the other only has a modicum of news and thats on sundays because thats not what their viewers want to see or listen to. Their viewers want to watch opinion propaganda machines that spread nothing but bullshit. 

That sounds like both the left and the right in America to me...

[Viva la FCB+]

42 minutes ago, 6666 said:

That sounds like both the left and the right in America to me...

The left does a terrible job in general of messaging while the right is far, far more effective. But to say left media outlets (CNN is even more central really) but id Include ABC, CNN and MSNBC spread propoganda? even if theres a modicum of truth in that statement it isnt in the same stratasphere as Fox news, Newsmax, OAN. They literally are not comparable.

Il throw in a tad of background for Fox. They where the first to actually call Arizona for Biden and for a period of roughly 2 maybe 3 weeks that followed they tried reporting actual news and not just trump propaganda as I figure they probably guessed it was going to pass and not take over the entire GOP. Guess what happened? ratings plummeted and they quadrupled down on the election big lie bullshit because money and ratings are far more important then reporting news. Go checkout any of the text messages that have been handed over of any of the big fox personalities Hannity, Tucker fuckface and Ingraham in regards to Jan 6th. The direct correspondents with Trump or his inner circle on that day is all public knowledge now thanks to the Jan 6th commitee. They absolutely know what their doing, they arent dumb but guess what money. 

The US political system is a god damn mess. I know traditionally they take pride in their two party system but I think fundementally it doesnt make sense in this day and age, period, full stop. The other major issue is the bajillions of money involved corrupting both sides to the core. The route of all problems is always seemingly money and theres a very real chance it could tear that country apart if it already hasnt for that matter. Anyways I should have probably moved this into the American politics section so Ill try and leave it at this. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Viva la FCB

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Ofcom, you mean. And I don't know where you're getting that from to be honest. BBC Question Time have climate change "sceptics" (a word they use in place of deniers to make themselves sound more credible) on their panels all the time for one. Farage is making a campaign against the net zero emission targets his next grift as well and we know you can't keep him off the box so get ready for that.

I know but they are normally presented as idiots. I get the impression American news channels presents them as credible. I've seen a bit of gb news. Even they dont deny it they just seem to think its not that important. 

I've actually seen people who liked farage turn on him for his climate change views. It might actually help more people realise  what an idiot he is 

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

I know but they are normally presented as idiots. I get the impression American news channels presents them as credible. I've seen a bit of gb news. Even they dont deny it they just seem to think its not that important. 

I've actually seen people who liked farage turn on him for his climate change views. It might actually help more people realise  what an idiot he is 

Public opinion is massively in favour of the net zero aims. He's just clinging to it because he thinks it can get him enough of a following to make him relevant again.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Public opinion is massively in favour of the net zero aims. He's just clinging to it because he thinks it can get him enough of a following to make him relevant again.

Yeah I know I'm just saying the more people we can get to realise what a twat he is the better. 

[Guest]

@RandoEFC I just put a joke on Facebook saying someone needs to assassinate farage over his net zero policy and it's been instantly flagged and my account has been frozen for a review

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@RandoEFC I just put a joke on Facebook saying someone needs to assassinate farage over his net zero policy and it's been instantly flagged and my account has been frozen for a review

Well that's not really on, to be fair.

[Guest]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

Well that's not really on, to be fair.

It was a joke but yeah probably a bit to far 

[Waylander]

Assistant Secretary of State with Senator M. Rubio very recently no debate about biolabs and no answers how they got there

 

[Azeem]

The only legitimate Russian concern I see is there are some far-right tendencies in West of Ukraine. Doesn't warrant what Russia did but it wouldn't solve anything to completely ignore it 

[Viva la FCB+]

6 hours ago, Waylander said:

Assistant Secretary of State with Senator M. Rubio very recently no debate about biolabs and no answers how they got there

 

Rubio is a walking sack of human garbage. Now go read about actual responses and instead of watching fox news to find out "information" this has been debunked and fact checked beyond question. Stop spreading bullshit.

[Inverted]

Without taking away from the fact that Russia is blatantly reaching for any flimsy justification for their actions, there is a grim sense that they are purposefully echoing the typical rhetoric we have seen the West use about war in the last 20-30 years.

"The oppressed locals want us to intervene" - Kosovo 1999

"They're shielding and supporting terrorists"  - Afghanistan 2001

"They have chemical weapons, we needed to act" - Iraq 2003

"They're hiding behind civilians, they are to blame if we accidentally kill any innocents" - Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, take your pick.

Even if they can't put together anything like a cogent or believable rhetoric themselves, they seem to be purposefully touching on the right notes to at least try highlight the pervasive hypocrisy at play.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Inverted said:

Even if they can't put together anything like a cogent or believable rhetoric themselves, they seem to be purposefully touching on the right notes to at least try highlight the pervasive hypocrisy at play.

and tbh the West has done themselves no favours in making it so Putin can't reach for any flimsy justification for the invasion or to justify war crimes

[Dr. Gonzo]

22 hours ago, 6666 said:

That sounds like both the left and the right in America to me...

There's hardly a left-wing in America... and it's certainly not represented by CNN or MSNBC, CNN is as "middle of the road" in America as a news-media company can be - in the UK political spectrum we'd probably think of them as pro-Tory news. MSNBC is corporate media masquerading as left-leaning, to sucker people from the left in to watching and push them further and further to the right. They're basically just like SkyNews. Same owners too. CNBC (one of their affiliates) is about as left-leaning as Fox - which isn't too surprising as it's catered towards business news.

America is too conservative societally and so driven by corporate interests in every slice of society to really have much room for a left-wing. That's why even some left-wing politicians, like Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein periodically come out with some far-right nonsense to get some media time and "credibility" with US voters who are obsessed with the idea of centricism and "moderates".

[Harry]

It seems like America has no serious economic-left, but a fairly vocal and visible social left which do dumb and polarising things like taking Abraham Lincoln's name off schools due to seeing him as racist.

Bernie Sanders is proof there's public appetite for something more but the way he's ostracised suggests there's very little room for him in the democratic party.

 

[Waylander]

Haven't the US had a push and drive to pay the basic minimum wage?

The other things are unions and don't often hear about them in US politics at least from here in the UK.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Haven't the US had a push and drive to pay the basic minimum wage?

The other things are unions and don't often hear about them in US politics at least from here in the UK.

There was a push to increase the minimum wage - it was meant to go in effect this year (in the state the minimum wage was already what the federal minimum wage is though - so in some places it doesn't make much of an impact). It's all gone pretty quiet on that front lately, though. Probably because the government & it's corporate backers don't have appetite to deal with that issue again despite the rapidly rising inflation.

I don't know a fucking thing about US unions though  - my wife had a union where she used to work, but they didn't actually do anything on behalf of the interests of the workers just collected their dues from her wages. Now she no longer pays into her union, but she's also at a different job so I don't think she's as worried about her rights as a worker as much.

[Dr. Gonzo]

When claims of invading for "denaziification" fail... try the following claims to justify your invasion:

genocide against ethnic Russians

chemical weapons created by the US

bio-weapons created by the US

how about illegal nuclear arms? https://www.jpost.com/international/article-701359

[Spike]

How corrupt is the Ukrainian goverment?