Russia and Ukraine

[RandoEFC+]

I'm sure it's absolutely deliberate that Russia are mirroring the flimsy excuses the US used in their own misjudged foreign campaigns. What I don't really get is what they're getting out of it other than basically trolling the US and their allies.

[Waylander]

This is from China on the Biolabs, there are others that are much longer yet this gives enough of their feeling if distrust.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Waylander said:

This is from China on the Biolabs, there are others that are much longer yet this gives enough of their feeling if distrust.

 

This is probably China just giving the US a taste of its own medicine after some claims about biolabs that China found insulting regarding the origin of covid.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

How corrupt is the Ukrainian goverment?

I think it’s got a bad history of corruption, but I don’t really know.

I think Zelensky ran on an anti-corruption campaign and politicians usually only really do that in places where corruption is a serious issue.

Having said that, countries with politicians that run on those sorts of campaigns often remain corrupt as ever. Not saying that’s the case here though, cos I dunno how corrupt they really are/were. Just that typically it’s countries that have bad corruption issues that have people run on anti-corruption platforms.

[Waylander]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This is probably China just giving the US a taste of its own medicine after some claims about biolabs that China found insulting regarding the origin of covid.

I think they believe biolabs are or have been set up in some countries that are their neighbours and so are suspicious and might also  believe there is a link to COV-ID.

 I'm not a fan of either China or Russia yet can see why they react at times. 

Not a lot we can do about it unless we are willing to risk this going nuclear, sanctions are a softer approach yet can they work in this global world. UK and Europe will comply though what about other regions?

[Stan]

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

 

Surely that is a war crime?

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Waylander said:

I think they believe biolabs are or have been set up in some countries that are their neighbours and so are suspicious and might also  believe there is a link to COV-ID.

 I'm not a fan of either China or Russia yet can see why they react at times. 

Not a lot we can do about it unless we are willing to risk this going nuclear, sanctions are a softer approach yet can they work in this global world. UK and Europe will comply though what about other regions?

I think the West generally & Russia and China respectively come out with these statements because they’re trying to sway public opinion so it’s “don’t trust the US/China/Russia”

But typically that’s effective when you couple it with a “because” - something you can point to to justify it.

The US claims of a biolab that created Covid came with no real evidence or anything to point to. Similarly China and Russia here with this Ukraine claim haven’t been coupled with anything to point to it being true.

And with Chinese foreign policy, public statements are typically a tit for tat where they meet the praise others give them with praise of their own, and they meet insults others give them often by recycling the insult they faced.

Also I think if the US were making secret biolabs abroad they’d do it in the Middle East or Africa

[Waylander]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think the West generally & Russia and China respectively come out with these statements because they’re trying to sway public opinion so it’s “don’t trust the US/China/Russia”

But typically that’s effective when you couple it with a “because” - something you can point to to justify it.

The US claims of a biolab that created Covid came with no real evidence or anything to point to. Similarly China and Russia here with this Ukraine claim haven’t been coupled with anything to point to it being true.

And with Chinese foreign policy, public statements are typically a tit for tat where they meet the praise others give them with praise of their own, and they meet insults others give them often by recycling the insult they faced.

Also I think if the US were making secret biolabs abroad they’d do it in the Middle East or Africa

In the Middle East they have a lot of airbases, biolabs are more covert not so obvious.

If you remember during the war on terror the US built an airbase in Kyrgystan near both the Chinese and Russian borders.

Russia then built an airbase 10 miles away and the US later closed theirs.

I''m familiar with the sphere of influence concept in 19th Century politics the US has gone far beyond that and now Russia is more on the ascendant and doing this in their backyard and China are doing the same with the South China Sea.

I was kind of surprised back when we let China keep Tibet, I guess market economics got in the way.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Waylander

[Azeem]

[Devil-Dick Willie]

On 16/03/2022 at 15:48, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it’s got a bad history of corruption, but I don’t really know.

I think Zelensky ran on an anti-corruption campaign and politicians usually only really do that in places where corruption is a serious issue.

Having said that, countries with politicians that run on those sorts of campaigns often remain corrupt as ever. Not saying that’s the case here though, cos I dunno how corrupt they really are/were. Just that typically it’s countries that have bad corruption issues that have people run on anti-corruption platforms.

If by 'anti corruption campaign' you mean, 'had his political opponents arrested' then yeah, Zelensky ran one of those alright. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

25 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

If by 'anti corruption campaign' you mean, 'had his political opponents arrested' then yeah, Zelensky ran one of those alright. 

After winning? It's not really campaigning on anti-corruption doing thatif you're already elected... that's just being a corrupt arsehole 

[Azeem]

US is offering Turkey some programs in exchange of deploying S400 defence systems in Kyiv which they bought from Russia.

Seems pointless, it's Russia's own tech surely they would have some kind of over ride function if used against themselves

[RandoEFC+]

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-says-russia-sending-mariupol-locals-remote-parts-of-russia-2022-3?utm_source=reddit.com

Russia's doing Nazi-style mass deportations from Mariupol.

Horrible news, but a bit funny considering the "de-Naziification" claim

[Viva la FCB+]

On 15/03/2022 at 13:52, Harry said:

It seems like America has no serious economic-left, but a fairly vocal and visible social left which do dumb and polarising things like taking Abraham Lincoln's name off schools due to seeing him as racist.

Bernie Sanders is proof there's public appetite for something more but the way he's ostracised suggests there's very little room for him in the democratic party.

 

 

Its funny because hes too progressive for the left but hes a socialist/extremist to the right. Good old two party system. 

[Azeem]

Putin demands unfriendly countries now pay for gas in rubels. 

[Waylander]

Yep and Saudi Arabia is allegedly in discussion with China to allow them  to purchase oil in Chinese Yuan.

If this continues it could seriously affect the US economy as demand for the dollar will fall.

 

[Waylander]

Found this on a forum an interesting read allegedly from a Swede that went as a volunteer to Ukraine and was caught up in that attack by the Russians in Western Ukraine near the Polish border.

https://freewestmedia.com/2022/03/22/a-swede-who-survived-the-russian-attack-on-a-nato-training-camp-speaks-out/

[Guest]

A bit of topic but Russia has made a bit to host euro 2028. They're having a laugh arent they??

[Tommy]

35 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

A bit of topic but Russia has made a bit to host euro 2028. They're having a laugh arent they??

If Qatar get a WC, anything is possible. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Tommy said:

If Qatar get a WC, anything is possible. 

Qatar getting a world cup was terrible. And even if they cant prove it there was definitely corruption involved everyone knows that. But I think even uefa wouldn't let russia host the euros when the host is decided next year 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

I saw footage of a real war crime today. Something expressly forbidden in the Geneva Convention. Not some 'oh maybe this might happen according to reports' story that someone has posted to twitter. Combat footage. 

Ukranians ambush a tank column, and as tank crews escape their destroyed vehicles, they are mercilessly gunned down. Very much a war crime, in a legal sense. 

Funny I heard nothing about it on the news or social media. Odd. 

[Azeem]

 

[Inverted]

7 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I saw footage of a real war crime today. Something expressly forbidden in the Geneva Convention. Not some 'oh maybe this might happen according to reports' story that someone has posted to twitter. Combat footage. 

Ukranians ambush a tank column, and as tank crews escape their destroyed vehicles, they are mercilessly gunned down. Very much a war crime, in a legal sense. 

Funny I heard nothing about it on the news or social media. Odd. 

I'm not sure that specifically is a war crime, unless they were trying to surrender? Gunning down fleeing enemies is nasty, but I always thought it was standard practise, especially considering that a trained crew is arguably more valuable than the tank itself in the grand scheme of things.

Of course, in the heat of battle, it's probably very difficult for a tank crew to simultaneously bail from their vehicle and surrender clearly at the same time.

I'm sure the Ukrainians are still committing plenty of war crimes too, though.