UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

6 hours ago, 6666 said:

It wasn't antisemitic. It just said the US police & the Israeli police learn from each other. The article also mentioned that this relationship was denied by Israel. True or not, mentioning Israel in any slight negative light isn't antisemitism. It's just like mentioning any other country in any slight negative light.

The labour are a mess, don't stand for anything and are just Tory light. 

The Tory light accusation usually comes from the "proper left-wing" of the party and for all Corbyn's campaigning and galvanising of young voters, all that his iteration of Labour ended up standing for was giving the actual Tories the biggest majority they've had for decades thus enabling them to deliver the shittiest version of Brexit they can conjure up to benefit their disaster capitalist donors while robbing our generation of countless opportunities enjoyed by our parents and leaving us to deal with yet more crushing economic hardship.

[Stan]

 

[Stan]

Ladies and gentlemen, our Prime Minister

 

 

 

[Bluewolf]

54 minutes ago, Stan said:

Ladies and gentlemen, our Prime Minister

 

 

 

Like watching the Benny Hill show.... 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Anyone seen anything about the government's agricultural bill?

Apparently it's pretty controversial, particularly with regards to dropping farm animal welfare standards and food safety standards. There are also concerns with how it'll impact rural communities if food production and land management are placed on the same priority level. But the animal welfare implications are apparently most controversial as it flies in the face of the Tory manifesto which stated that animal welfare standards would not drop.

Are the drop in animal welfare standards a reaction to the US's claims that any post-Brexit trade deal must allow for the US to be able to sell their chlorinated chicken to the UK? If not, why has there been such little in the media regarding this fairly controversial bit of political news... which impacts the UK's food supply pretty significantly.

I understand that COVID is a big issue... but this should be too. And this is something where... I've had a pretty hard time finding more information or finding sources that don't have an overtly partisan stance and aren't interested in covering the issue objectively. Which I think is really strange tbh.

[RandoEFC+]

I just can't be arsed anymore. Anyone who is going to base their opinion on actual reality, instead of whatever barely intelligible propaganda Johnson allows to tumble out of his gob, surely can not back this cult that have taken over the Conservative party. What they've got left are the slavish Brexit supporters who will never leave so long as Boris Johnson is party leader and the people that think the Labour Party are worse. Johnson's government can not sink any lower. Hopefully some people are finally willing to have a little think about their support for them when they realise what an emphatic disaster leaving the EU with no completed trade deal with any other major power (still) turns out to be but mostly it's about Keir Starmer slowly winning over the people who have been scared of the Labour party in recent years and the rest of his MPs not shooting their own party in the foot by betraying the fact that a large faction of them are more interested in having a woke-ness pissing contest then actually forming a government that can make people's lives better.

I mean, Johnson swore blind throughout the whole election that there would be no trade border in the Irish sea, the UK have now applied for trade posts to be built in Northern Ireland and it's barely even news because anyone who pays a jot of attention to politics just expect the exact opposite of what Johnson promises to happen. It would be more newsworthy if he actually told the truth.

I just hope those people that like the novelty of "Boris" are getting as bored with the whole thing as I am. What a load of old shite the country is. More arsed about imaginary sovereignty than having a government in charge who actually know the meaning of competence, and I'm not talking about Corbyn either. It doesn't have to be about red or blue shirts. David Cameron's government would have demonstrated something resembling statesmanship and leadership throughout this crisis.

I'm sure once everything settles down they'll start looking for a way to enable Scottish independence to go ahead that allows them to somehow place the blame on the Scots themselves, or Brussels, or a combination of Muslims, immigrants, care home workers and Antifa Marxists. Remove Scotland from Westminster and the Tories have it locked down for the rest of our lives.

Couldn't bare to live in England now me. You think it's a dumpster fire when you live there. Trust me it's even worse from the outside looking in.

[Inverted]

The collective mind and conscience of this country is just rotten. A kind of national dementia has set in. 

I've swung from pro-union to pro-indy and I can't sum up my reasoning any better than that. 

I just don't see the potential for anything good to happen anymore with British politics. There's nothing left but saccharine sentimentality, pathetic anti-intellectualism, and deference to the wealthy. 

We're all going to be poorer anyway with Covid and Brexit, we might as well break ourselves off before the rot sets in up here. 

[Honey Honey]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Anyone seen anything about the government's agricultural bill?

Apparently it's pretty controversial, particularly with regards to dropping farm animal welfare standards and food safety standards. There are also concerns with how it'll impact rural communities if food production and land management are placed on the same priority level. But the animal welfare implications are apparently most controversial as it flies in the face of the Tory manifesto which stated that animal welfare standards would not drop.

Are the drop in animal welfare standards a reaction to the US's claims that any post-Brexit trade deal must allow for the US to be able to sell their chlorinated chicken to the UK? If not, why has there been such little in the media regarding this fairly controversial bit of political news... which impacts the UK's food supply pretty significantly.

I understand that COVID is a big issue... but this should be too. And this is something where... I've had a pretty hard time finding more information or finding sources that don't have an overtly partisan stance and aren't interested in covering the issue objectively. Which I think is really strange tbh.

Domestic standards aren't being dropped. Subsidies will be structured with the aim of encouraging more farms to be organic, environmentally conscious and adopt higher animal welfare standards in order to receive more government funds. 

The part causing rebellion from the countryside is that the UK's standards aren't protected in the bill. Meaning importing lower standard products could be on the table in any trade negotiations. Which is clearly about the US.

It risks a two tier market where UK products are undercut in price by those not held to the same standards.

Tories seem to be banking on their "consumer choice" philosophy in which they think you simply won't buy the worst standard goods. 

I've been trying to get meat eaters I know to at least only buy organic and highest stsndards on offer for a couple of years and they are ooh yeah I should at first and then never really follow through for long. Love for a bargain is strong.

[Stan]

Sunak announced the budget summer statement today...

• VAT cuts to 5% on hospitality and tourism for 6 months - includes food & non-alcoholic drinks, as well as hot takeaway food
• To avoid (mass) unemployment, businesses are being given £1k for every staff member they can retain until Jan 2021 that was on furlough, for those that were earning over £520/m
• No stamp duty up to £500k until 31st March 2021
• Monday-Wednesday restaurant meals discounts - 50% off up to £10/head throughout August on these days.

[RandoEFC+]

Rishi Sunak once again impressing everyone with his latest announcements. Again, you have to account for the fact that he gets to be the "good news" guy and that the plan has to be approved across at least the Prime Minister's team, but it's the way he lays out the facts of his latest package, what he is hoping to achieve, why he's made the decisions he has and even discusses the drawbacks of it. It's bad news but how refreshing is it to see a minister from this cabinet stand up and say "I'm sorry that I can't save every job". Yes, he's still a rich businessperson with 500 homes and he profited from the financial crisis that brought down Gordon Brown's Labour Party and he still voted for all of the pro-austerity policies and is an enabler of this dangerous no-deal Brexit government, but he's still a capable politician with leadership qualities and a genuine ability to reassure the public without lying about the drawbacks of his policies and the troubles we're yet to face, which is about the last thing you can say about Johnson, Hancock, Raab, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Jenrick, Patel or the rest of them.

Can you imagine if Johnson had been responsible for this announcement. "It will be an oven-ready, world-beating financial package the likes of which the world has never seen before. Hurble gurble gurble no stone left unturned. Stay Great. Save Britain. Responsible Lives. Sensational Kipper-Leading Job Scheme Hosh Tosh Magosh. No follow-up questions."

[Stan]

54 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Rishi Sunak once again impressing everyone with his latest announcements. Again, you have to account for the fact that he gets to be the "good news" guy and that the plan has to be approved across at least the Prime Minister's team, but it's the way he lays out the facts of his latest package, what he is hoping to achieve, why he's made the decisions he has and even discusses the drawbacks of it. It's bad news but how refreshing is it to see a minister from this cabinet stand up and say "I'm sorry that I can't save every job". Yes, he's still a rich businessperson with 500 homes and he profited from the financial crisis that brought down Gordon Brown's Labour Party and he still voted for all of the pro-austerity policies and is an enabler of this dangerous no-deal Brexit government, but he's still a capable politician with leadership qualities and a genuine ability to reassure the public without lying about the drawbacks of his policies and the troubles we're yet to face, which is about the last thing you can say about Johnson, Hancock, Raab, Gove, Rees-Mogg, Jenrick, Patel or the rest of them.

Can you imagine if Johnson had been responsible for this announcement. "It will be an oven-ready, world-beating financial package the likes of which the world has never seen before. Hurble gurble gurble no stone left unturned. Stay Great. Save Britain. Responsible Lives. Sensational Kipper-Leading Job Scheme Hosh Tosh Magosh. No follow-up questions."

Agree with that and said as such when the furlough scheme was announced. Those mightily against Tories did say at the time 'it's easy for him, he gets to deliver the good news all the time' but as you say, there's an art to doing it without looking like an absolute tit in the process.

 

What intrigues me more is they had to be pushed and pushed in to feeding children (the whole free school meals being continued during holidays thing) but have been willing to spend billions more to give people an opportunity to dine out when many can't afford it as it is due to lost income (even with the discount). 

[RandoEFC+]

18 minutes ago, Stan said:

Agree with that and said as such when the furlough scheme was announced. Those mightily against Tories did say at the time 'it's easy for him, he gets to deliver the good news all the time' but as you say, there's an art to doing it without looking like an absolute tit in the process.

 

What intrigues me more is they had to be pushed and pushed in to feeding children (the whole free school meals being continued during holidays thing) but have been willing to spend billions more to give people an opportunity to dine out when many can't afford it as it is due to lost income (even with the discount). 

I'm sure that's exactly what I said and I was the only one who did so if you're talking about this thread . I wouldn't describe myself as mightily against Tories, although I'm mightily against these Tories. If you are referring back to my comments it was more of a caveat than a criticism at the time.

But anyway, yeah the free school meals thing I think I can explain. Boris Johnson's administration is a watered down "strong man" government in a somewhat similar mould to Donald Trump's. If there's one thing they hate, it's giving Labour the opportunity to say they've forced the government into a U-turn, especially when Labour are under new leadership and are trying to identify as a functioning opposition again. Even worse when Starmer has proven to be fairly highly-rated in his early forays. It was probably actually a blessing in disguise for them when Rashford took it upon himself to campaign for it and became the spearhead instead of the Labour Party. Indeed, when Labour tried to then claim that they'd forced the government into a U-turn, they were roundly criticised for trying to take the credit from Marcus Rashford.

You could argue that the whole face masks thing. It may just be a coincidence but there's an election for Mayor of London that's been delayed to next year. Saddiq Khan wanted to make face masks compulsory on TfL services weeks and weeks back. The government steered clear of admitting face masks should be worn in public for a lot longer than most other countries. In fact, compared to other countries with similar demographics and at a similar stage of the crisis, we're way behind in terms of how many people say they would wear a face mask in public. It might be nothing but you wouldn't put it past some of the figures in this government to try and wait for everyone to forget that Saddiq Khan called it right before they did, before agreeing with him.

[Stan]

46 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I'm sure that's exactly what I said and I was the only one who did so if you're talking about this thread . I wouldn't describe myself as mightily against Tories, although I'm mightily against these Tories. If you are referring back to my comments it was more of a caveat than a criticism at the time.

But anyway, yeah the free school meals thing I think I can explain. Boris Johnson's administration is a watered down "strong man" government in a somewhat similar mould to Donald Trump's. If there's one thing they hate, it's giving Labour the opportunity to say they've forced the government into a U-turn, especially when Labour are under new leadership and are trying to identify as a functioning opposition again. Even worse when Starmer has proven to be fairly highly-rated in his early forays. It was probably actually a blessing in disguise for them when Rashford took it upon himself to campaign for it and became the spearhead instead of the Labour Party. Indeed, when Labour tried to then claim that they'd forced the government into a U-turn, they were roundly criticised for trying to take the credit from Marcus Rashford.

You could argue that the whole face masks thing. It may just be a coincidence but there's an election for Mayor of London that's been delayed to next year. Saddiq Khan wanted to make face masks compulsory on TfL services weeks and weeks back. The government steered clear of admitting face masks should be worn in public for a lot longer than most other countries. In fact, compared to other countries with similar demographics and at a similar stage of the crisis, we're way behind in terms of how many people say they would wear a face mask in public. It might be nothing but you wouldn't put it past some of the figures in this government to try and wait for everyone to forget that Saddiq Khan called it right before they did, before agreeing with him.

No, no not directed at you! Seen loads of comments in general about it! That he gets too much praise just for delivering good news. But he's articulate compared to the waffling rhetoric so many others dish out.

I don't for one second want to take any credit from Rashford how he managed himself and his campaign, but Labour did raise the whole thing as an issue way back in April (there's a letter to the Tories somewhere). The publicity it got from Rashford's campaign helped no end and of course we should all be grateful the right outcome occurred. Labour may have jumped on the back of that campaign when it was successful, but it's not something they were not aware of before the campaign went big.

Regarding those face-masks, it's those who mightily support the Tories that would refuse to see what Khan does. Dare I say because of his name they just point-blank refuse to listen to anything he says anyway, even if they actually agree with it. I'm sure some ardent Tories want to wear face-masks and protect themselves on public transport, but they just don't want to admit Khan suggested it first and instead wait to give credit to someone they have an affinity to or support. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

10 hours ago, Stan said:

No, no not directed at you! Seen loads of comments in general about it! That he gets too much praise just for delivering good news. But he's articulate compared to the waffling rhetoric so many others dish out.

I don't for one second want to take any credit from Rashford how he managed himself and his campaign, but Labour did raise the whole thing as an issue way back in April (there's a letter to the Tories somewhere). The publicity it got from Rashford's campaign helped no end and of course we should all be grateful the right outcome occurred. Labour may have jumped on the back of that campaign when it was successful, but it's not something they were not aware of before the campaign went big.

Regarding those face-masks, it's those who mightily support the Tories that would refuse to see what Khan does. Dare I say because of his name they just point-blank refuse to listen to anything he says anyway, even if they actually agree with it. I'm sure some ardent Tories want to wear face-masks and protect themselves on public transport, but they just don't want to admit Khan suggested it first and instead wait to give credit to someone they have an affinity to or support. 

FFS are masks becoming a political issue back home as well?

That's disheartening as fuck.

[RandoEFC+]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

FFS are masks becoming a political issue back home as well?

That's disheartening as fuck.

Can't really prove whether it's political or not though.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

Can't really prove whether it's political or not though.

Tbh surprised to see the US at above 50% based off the last time I went to the supermarket and saw 4(!) fucking people shouting at a store clerk bitching about how their rights were being infringed by being told to wear a mask in the store.

With the UK (and Scandinavia)... it looks like far too many people aren’t wearing masks to draw any conclusions as to whether it’s split down political preference.

Blows my mind though, if everyone wears a mask it reduces the likelihood of spreading the disease significantly and it’s not that much of an inconvenience to put one on. Plus you can mutter insults at people and they can’t read your lips, which is handy.

[Stan]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Blows my mind though, if everyone wears a mask it reduces the likelihood of spreading the disease significantly and it’s not that much of an inconvenience to put one on. Plus you can mutter insults at people and they can’t read your lips, which is handy

Humans in liking to make things difficult for themselves shocker. 

[Bluewolf]

On 10/07/2020 at 00:58, Dr. Gonzo said:

Blows my mind though, if everyone wears a mask it reduces the likelihood of spreading the disease significantly and it’s not that much of an inconvenience to put one on. Plus you can mutter insults at people and they can’t read your lips, which is handy.

The Government's guidance for face masks is continuing to spark debate after Michael Gove said they should not be mandatory in shops in England.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Friday that ministers were looking at "stricter rules" for coverings in public, but the Cabinet Office Minister said it was better to trust the public's "common sense".

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

The Government's guidance for face masks is continuing to spark debate after Michael Gove said they should not be mandatory in shops in England.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Friday that ministers were looking at "stricter rules" for coverings in public, but the Cabinet Office Minister said it was better to trust the public's "common sense".

 

What the fuck? Although what do we expect Gove to tell us when experts are saying otherwise.

[MUFC]

Anyone got their phones?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53403793

[RandoEFC+]

Number 10 losing the plot again.

Johnson Cummings had made it known that the infamously nicknamed Chris "Failing" Grayling was his preferred choice of chair for the intelligence committee which was selected today. However, Conservative MP Julian Lewis worked with Labour MPs to get himself voted into the hot seat instead. Johnson's Cummings' response is to remove the Tory whip from Julian Lewis who is now an Independent MP responsible for the intelligence committee.

This is the committee responsible for the infamous Russia Report (into the influence of Russian interference on British elections including the Brexit Referendum) put together by Dominic Grieve ahead of the previous election, which was mysteriously never published in the build up to the ballot in December. When questioned about this, the government have repeatedly gone back to the line that it was the intelligence committee's responsibility to publish the report at an appropriate time, the hitch being that it was down to the government to reconvene this committee. They've managed to put it off long enough, but have now been ambushed in their attempts to install a probable patsy as the chair of said committee with a majority of Conservative MPs making up the full roster.

Tonight's events would seem to throw an awfully large spanner in their works and the removal of the whip from Mr Lewis is unlikely to make him more sympathetic to their cause. It's unlikely that the report contains the type of massive bombshells that would bring a government down or invalidate the referendum result but I don't think it's going to go well for them when it comes out.

[Bluewolf]

14 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Number 10 losing the plot again.

Johnson Cummings had made it known that the infamously nicknamed Chris "Failing" Grayling was his preferred choice of chair for the intelligence committee which was selected today. However, Conservative MP Julian Lewis worked with Labour MPs to get himself voted into the hot seat instead. Johnson's Cummings' response is to remove the Tory whip from Julian Lewis who is now an Independent MP responsible for the intelligence committee.

This is the committee responsible for the infamous Russia Report (into the influence of Russian interference on British elections including the Brexit Referendum) put together by Dominic Grieve ahead of the previous election, which was mysteriously never published in the build up to the ballot in December. When questioned about this, the government have repeatedly gone back to the line that it was the intelligence committee's responsibility to publish the report at an appropriate time, the hitch being that it was down to the government to reconvene this committee. They've managed to put it off long enough, but have now been ambushed in their attempts to install a probable patsy as the chair of said committee with a majority of Conservative MPs making up the full roster.

Tonight's events would seem to throw an awfully large spanner in their works and the removal of the whip from Mr Lewis is unlikely to make him more sympathetic to their cause. It's unlikely that the report contains the type of massive bombshells that would bring a government down or invalidate the referendum result but I don't think it's going to go well for them when it comes out.

A former Conservative head of the intelligence committee has blamed Boris Johnson’s “incompetence” for the farce that saw Chris Grayling – his hand-picked choice – defeated in his bid to lead it.

“I think the prime minister is the author of his own misfortune,” Malcolm Rifkind said – as Downing Street licked its wounds over the humiliation on Wednesday evening.

Mr Grayling was beaten by fellow Conservative Julian Lewis, who was promptly kicked out of the parliamentary party as a punishment for voting with Labour members.

The episode paves the way for the publication, next week, of the report into Russian interference in British politics, which Mr Johnson has suppressed for nine months.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-s-incompetence-to-blame-for-intelligence-committee-humiliation-says-tory-grandee/ar-BB16NXQh?ocid=msedgntp

[Stan]

They've had 9 months to conjure up excuses of what will come out of that report, as well as why they didn't release it at the time.

I find it hilarious this whole Failing Grayling and Lewis fiasco . 

[RandoEFC+]

The Russia report will be released this morning. My predictions:

• There will be some evidence that there was interference in the 2016 EU Membership Referendum to boost the Leave vote. The interference will be relatively minor, but we'll be hearing about it daily for at least 3 months from prominent FBPE Twitter accounts.
• There will be a lot of other waffle in there that we should probably all care about but will ignore because Remainers will zero in on the Brexit stuff and try to make out that it invalidates the result of the referendum while Leavers will zero in on the Brexit stuff and try to explain away how it isn't actually Russian interference and everyone who voted Leave would have voted Leave anyway and that it had no impact on the referendum and that they know what they voted for.
• There will be nothing in the report that seriously compromises any particular politicians and will, at worst, shine a light on the amount of money the Conservative party have received from Russian donors over the past few years.
• Nothing in the report will cut through enough to significantly impact upon any party's polling numbers and so the whole thing will ultimately be forgotten in less the month.

[...Dan]